Jason the Yank Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 The add/remove leagues function in FM '12 has made me a bit curious about league reputations, mainly because of a save concept I have (start in the lowest rated leagues, then add higher-rated ones in when/if I ever dominate the lower-rated leagues and conceivably could get a job in a bigger league). So I've fired up a new game, and looked at all the leagues that are playable out of the box (plus a couple that I know FMCUers have used edit files to get - those leagues are listed inside parentheses). The new game I fired up in order to check league reputations has MLS as the only playable league, and there are only 11,000 players in a large database. But I figure since this list is from the very start of the game, it's what SI has coded them as and should hold true across all game setups. The list: (Algeria - League One - 2 stars) Argentina Premier Division - 3 stars Second Division - 2-1/2 stars Australia A-League - 2 stars Austria Premier Division - 2-1/2 stars First Division - 2 stars Belarus Highest League - 2-1/2 stars First League - 1-1/2 stars Belgium Pro League - 3 stars Second League - 1-/2 stars Third Division A/B - 1 star Brazil First Division - 3-1/2 stars Second Division - 3 stars Third Division - 2-1/2 stars Bulgaria "A" Group - 2-1/2 stars "B" Group - 1-1/2 stars Chile First Division - 2-1/2 stars First Division B - 1-1/2 stars China Super League - 2 stars First Division - 1-1/2 stars Colombia First Division - 2-1/2 stars Second Division - 1-1/2 stars Croatia First Divison - 2-1/2 stars Second Division - 2 stars Czech Republic First Division - 2-1/2 stars Second Division - 2 stars Denmark Superliga - 2-1/2 stars First Division - 2 stars Second Division - 1 star (Egypt - Premier League - 2 stars) England Premier Division - 4-1/2 stars Championship - 3 stars League 1 - 2 stars League 2 - 1-2/ stars Blue Square Premier - 1 star Blue Square North/South - 1/2 star (Isthmian/Southern/Northern Premier - 1/2 star) (Isthmian/Souther/Northern First Division - 1/2 star) Finland Premier League - 2 stars First Divison - 1-1/2 stars France Ligue 1 - 3-1/2 stars Ligue 2 - 2-1/2 stars National - 1-1/2 stars CFA - 1 star Germany First Division - 4 stars Second Division - 3 stars Third Division - 2 stars Greece Superleague -3 stars National B - 2 stars Holland Eredivisie - 3 stars Jupiler League - 2 stars (Topklasse - 1/2 star) Hong Kong First Division - 1 star Hungary Division I - 2 stars Division II - 1-1/2 stars Iceland Premier Division - 1-1/2 stars First Division - 1/2 stars India National Football League - 1/2 star Indonesia Super League - 1-1/2 stars Premier Division - 1 star First Division - 1/2 star (Iran - Premier League - 2 stars) Israel Premier League - 2-1/2 stars National League - 2 stars Italy Serie A - 4 stars Serie B - 3-1/2 stars Serie C1 - 2 stars Serie C2 - 1-1/2 stars (Serie D - 1/2 star) (Japan - League 1 - 2-1/2 stars; League 2 - 2 stars; JFL - 1 star) Malaysia Super League - 1 star Premier League - 1/2 star Mexico First Division - 3 stars Promotion League - 2 stars (New Zealand - ASB Premiership - 1/2 star) Northern Ireland Premier Division - 1-1/2 stars First Division - 1/2 star Second Division - 1/2 star Norway Premier Division - 2-1/2 stars First Division - 2 stars Second Division - 1 stars Peru First Division - 2 stars Poland Ekstraklasa - 2-1/2 stars First Division - 1-1/2 stars Portugal Premier League - 3-1/2 stars Second League - 2 stars Second Division - 1 star (Qatar - Stars League - 2 stars) Republic of Ireland Premier Division - 2 stars First Division - 1 star Romania First League - 2-1/2 stars Second Division - 1-1/2 stars Russia Premier Division - 3-1/2 stars First Division - 2 stars Scotland Premier League - 2-1/2 stars First Division - 2 stars Second Division - 1 star Third Division - 1/2 star Serbia SuperLeague - 2-1/2 stars First League - 2 star Singapore S-League- 1 star Slovakia First Division - 2-1/2 stars Second Division - 1-1/2 stars Slovenia First League - 2 stars Second League - 1-1/2 stars South Africa Premier League - 2-1/2 stars First Division - 1 star South Korea K-League - 2-1/2 stars N-League - 1-1/2 stars Spain La Liga - 4-1/2 stars Liga adelante - 2-1/2 stars Second Division B - 2 stars (Third Division - 1/2 star) Sweden Premier Division - 2-1/2 stars First Division Elite - 2 stars First Division - 1 star Second Division - 1 star Switzerland Super League - 2-1/2 stars Challenge League - 2 stars (Tunisia - Ligue Professionnelle 1 - 2 stars) Turkey Premier Division - 3 stars First Division - 2-1/2 stars Second Division - 1-1/2 stars Ukraine Premier League - 3 stars First League - 2 stars (United Arab Emirates - Professional League - 2 stars) United Stars Major League Soccer - 2-1/2 stars (Second Division - 1-1/2 stars) (Third Division - 1 stars) Uruguay First Division - 2-1/2 stars Second Division - 1-1/2 stars Wales Premier League - 1 star (First Division/Cymru Alliance - 1/2 star) In general, you can see there's a logical order of descent: Leagues are rated either a half star or a full star lower than the league above them, and a half star or a full star higher than the league below them. What is interesting to me is that pattern doesn't hold in Belgium, England, Portugal, Russia and Spain: There is a 1-1/2 star difference between the first and second divisions in Belgium, England, Portugal and Russia, and full 2 star difference between La Liga and Liga adelante in Spain. The Belgium one is probably the bigger surprise to me, as I wouldn't think there would be that much of a difference the Pro League and Second Division (I can't remember if the Second Division is a semi-pro league. Someone who has played there can clarify that). I can see a 1-1/2 star difference between the Premiership and the Championship, just because the Premiership is a massive league worldwide. Portugal and Russia are a mild surprise, only because they don't fit the pattern. But the 2-star gap between Spain's top 2 leagues is very interesting. Theoretically, this suggests the step up should be a major problem for teams promoted from Liga adelante (especially if your assistant reports that your players tend to be "in awe of" teams with higher reputations). But it also suggests they have a shot at players your assistant manager would leave off his search list as being "unrealistic" transfer targets. The England setup is also interesting, because everything from the Blue Square North/South has a 1/2-star reputation, which could help explain when a poster is playing with a club that rises rapidly through the non-league structure: The next league up is really no bigger than the league it promoted from. It might also suggest that SI needs to tweak the reputation models, as 10 slots (each half-star increment) isn't enough to account for leagues being further down than Level 5. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason the Yank Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Also, there's a 1-1/2 star gap between Italy's Serie B and Serie C1, but that makes sense to me since Serie B is a nationwide league, whilst C1 is a regionalized league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby_McDonald Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 SI's 10 slots is designed for the leagues out of the box... ie Conference North/South. Good job putting it altogether Jason. Shame I haven't got FM2012 to give these a whirl. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason the Yank Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 SI's 10 slots is designed for the leagues out of the box... ie Conference North/South. That's true, but it also allows for less variance in league reputation than, say, player attributes. The attributes give you 20 "slots" to pick from for each category. Granted, those all funnel in to give you a scout report based on the same 5-star rating system (10 slots, 1 for each half star). But I suspect there's a lot less info being processed to determine that a player is 4 stars, than to determine that a league is 4 stars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachFlu Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 The Belgium one is probably the bigger surprise to me, as I wouldn't think there would be that much of a difference the Pro League and Second Division (I can't remember if the Second Division is a semi-pro league. Someone who has played there can clarify that). I don't know the (real world) numbers off the top of my head, but yeah, the Belgian Second Division is largely a semi-pro league, with perhaps a few pro clubs who relegated from the top flight in the last decade or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravanmaster Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Portugal and Russia are a mild surprise, only because they don't fit the pattern. When I heard about the add/remove league feature, I looked the league reputations up in FM11 (as I had a slightly similar idea to yours), thinking that the league reputations would stay pretty much the same between '11 and '12 (there's been a lot of changes, though). IIRC, there were a lot more one-and-a-half star difference leagues in '11. I remember Ukraine and Croatia, in particular. What I noticed was consistent between these patten-breakers was that they typically featured one or a few teams that completely dominate the domestic top division: Dynamo Zagreb in Croatia, Shakhtar Donetsk and Dinamo Kyiv in Ukraine etc. This also holds true for Portugal, as there's a huge gap between "the big three" and the rest of the teams, bringing on a reputation-increase that is mostly team-dependent. This is definitely the case for La Liga, too. Take away Real and Barca and there's no way it's a five-and-a-half-star league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason the Yank Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 That's a good point, caravan, and one that hadn't occured to me. I don't know the (real world) numbers off the top of my head, but yeah, the Belgian Second Division is largely a semi-pro league, with perhaps a few pro clubs who relegated from the top flight in the last decade or so. Cheers, Flu. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 There is certainly a difference from last year. This year I've seen people receiving job offers from clubs like Goias when beginning the game with Sunday League reputation, which is in direct contrast to the previous year where only South Africa/Sweden were particularly interested. It'll also be very interesting to see what it's like to get a new job after being moderately successful. I recall last year, having won won a slew of cups with Kaizer Chiefs, not even being able to find a job in continental Europe, yet out of nowhere Palmeiras offered me a gig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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