livihoopsfan Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I have a problem here & would like any feedback because maybe I have got something wrong here. I am Scotland & in my qualifying group for the euro's I am on level points with France, we each have 25 points with same games played. France have 8 goals better on goal difference than me however in our two matches against each other we beat them at home & we drew with them away. Now to my understanding by the rules of sorting as we had won one & drawn the other with them on the occassion that we are level points should we not be above them?? I'd be greatful for any advice on this as there is one match left in the group & if we both win Scotland will not qualify when I'm sure we deserve to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayahr Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Doesn't the game tell you on the rules screen? If the matches against each other count more than goal differnce, maybe the game still does not implement this before the last match has been played. :confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
livihoopsfan Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Yes it does, this is why I am confused, as up until my most recent match I have been above them on th e same points, but now they are placed above me with one match to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Is there a 3rd team also on the same number of points? If so then the results against each other sorting doesn't work because you can have an a > b, b > c and c > a scenario. In that case it reverts to goal difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
livihoopsfan Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Yes Italy are on 25 also. That must be the reason then. I did not know that, thanks for the info glamdring Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Is there a 3rd team also on the same number of points? If so then the results against each other sorting doesn't work because you can have an a > b, b > c and c > a scenario. In that case it reverts to goal difference. Not quite true. The head to head still takes first preference but it is now basically a league table between the 3 teams with only the results between each other counting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Well, what I meant was that if Scotland have better head to head vs France, France have better head to head vs Italy and Italy have better head to head vs Scotland then it has to be decided based on goal difference, although you may well be right in terms of that goal difference only being calculated off results involving those 3 teams, I hadn't considered it that carefully Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Well, what I meant was that if Scotland have better head to head vs France, France have better head to head vs Italy and Italy have better head to head vs Scotland then it has to be decided based on goal difference, although you may well be right in terms of that goal difference only being calculated off results involving those 3 teams, I hadn't considered it that carefully Yeah, you're half right. It is easier to explain with an example. France 1-1 Scotland Scotland 1-0 France Italy 2-0 Scotland Scotland 1-2 Italy France 3-1 Italy Italy 1-1 France Say they're the results. Basically all results involving the other teams are ignored and you calculate each team's points from those games. Italy have 7 France have 5 Scotland have 4 So goal difference does not matter here and even though Scotland have a better head-to-head against France they would still finish behind them. Fully understand now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
livihoopsfan Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 very much so, I thank you both for the info, and now I finally understand, it's a complicated one, cheers . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 very much so, I thank you both for the info, and now I finally understand, it's a complicated one, cheers . You're welcome but yeah, it is complicated and can be more so if the teams still can't be separated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
livihoopsfan Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 well my last match is at home to Italy so Im not too optimistic, but again cheers, I'm away now to see if I can conquer the Italians as the weekend is here. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Yeah, you're half right. It is easier to explain with an example. France 1-1 Scotland Scotland 1-0 France Italy 2-0 Scotland Scotland 1-2 Italy France 3-1 Italy Italy 1-1 France Say they're the results. Basically all results involving the other teams are ignored and you calculate each team's points from those games. Italy have 7 France have 5 Scotland have 4 So goal difference does not matter here and even though Scotland have a better head-to-head against France they would still finish behind them. Fully understand now? Ah, yes Mine was a very specific sub-case of that in which e.g. each team wins the home game so they all have 6 points in the mini-table...not a very useful case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 well my last match is at home to Italy so Im not too optimistic, but again cheers, I'm away now to see if I can conquer the Italians as the weekend is here. Cheers There's an additional complication...you've only played Italy once...it's Friday afternoon so I can't be bothered trying to work out how that effects things although if France have played both yourself and Italy twice then they'll have played more games than you both in that mini-table so will quite likely have more points! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Ah, yes Mine was a very specific sub-case of that in which e.g. each team wins the home game so they all have 6 points in the mini-table...not a very useful case Yeah you were only catering for 1 case. Livihoopsfan, since you haven't played Italy yet it is going to be slightly different. What games have each of you left and what have your results being between each other so far? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
livihoopsfan Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 Sorry I only just got back to you now jod123 I played Italy and lost 2-1 at home, get this after loosing even though France did not play a fixture I moved one place above them! So it had to be the A,B,C scenario you both were advising me about. Unfortunately for me France had a game in hand which they won so I ended up loosing by points anyway, but I appreciate the info. Bring on the world cup qualifiers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
solstar Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 It's the typical story of Scotland. Close yet always near missing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jod123 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Sorry I only just got back to you now jod123 I played Italy and lost 2-1 at home, get this after loosing even though France did not play a fixture I moved one place above them! So it had to be the A,B,C scenario you both were advising me about. Unfortunately for me France had a game in hand which they won so I ended up loosing by points anyway, but I appreciate the info. Bring on the world cup qualifiers! Ok. Better luck next time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHAVFC Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 It's the typical story of Scotland. Close yet always near missing... Lol. Unlucky! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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