PA

What is a players PA, and how do I look at it. Always see it mentioned but do not know how to see it on the game. Thanks.

What is a players PA, and how do I look at it. Always see it mentioned but do not know how to see it on the game. Thanks.

Each player has a current ability & a potential ability (PA) both rated between 1 & 200.

His CA is an overall representation of his attributes that you see (Although they can be distributed poorly) while the PA is a representation of how good his overall attributes can be.

As the player trains, gets older, plays games his attributes improve until CA=PA at which point he won't improve further.

You can't see it in the game other than the opinions of scouts/coaches/AMs. You can view the actually numbers in the editor or by downloading a third party program but this is viewed as cheating by many people.

OK thankyou. So can a scout tell me a players PA or CA in terms of numers???...

OK thankyou. So can a scout tell me a players PA or CA in terms of numers???...

No, just their opinion in the form of stars.

No, just their opinion in the form of stars.

OK so when people are talking about young players with a PA of 190-200. They only know this by looking at the editor?.

OK so when people are talking about young players with a PA of 190-200. They only know this by looking at the editor?.

or they have used a third party program or have picked the information up from a website like this.

or they have used a third party program or have picked the information up from a website like this.

Ok I see. Thanks for your help Cougar

OK thankyou. So can a scout tell me a players PA or CA in terms of numers???...

no .. scouting is broken in game , your next wonderkid can have just 2.5 potential stars according to them.. thats why using external programs to know pa/ca isnt cheating.. as ppl claim

no .. scouting is broken in game , your next wonderkid can have just 2.5 potential stars according to them.. thats why using external programs to know pa/ca isnt cheating.. as ppl claim

Sounds like a wee bit of cheating to me .

no .. scouting is broken in game , your next wonderkid can have just 2.5 potential stars according to them.. thats why using external programs to know pa/ca isnt cheating.. as ppl claim

How is that broken? although I'd agree its not ideal.

Your "wonderkid" is rated against the other players in your squad so if you have other world class players he potentially will end up similar to them not miles better than them - Therefore gets 2.5/3 stars.

While we are on this subject I strongly suggest to the SI team to remove the whole PA system. Keep CA as it is but remove this ridiculous number called PA.

So while theoretically every player has uncapped potential, their growth will be limited by these factors.

- Age, personality, injury, appropriate division level experience, first team exposure, training facility and quality, tutors, and others you may find to be relevant.

Obviously some factors will be more weighed than others, but this method makes the game far more realistic for youngsters and especially newgens.

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And another thing, it would be so much better to show the personality and other hidden attributes in a more specific way.

There are like 8 different aspects of a player's in game personality, and a single word description like 'resolute' doesn't really help. The scout or coach reports should be a bit more detailed about this.

And also same with the hidden attributes like injury pronness, consistency, important matches. Fair enough they don't have to be shown in 1-20 scale, but at least on something like a 1-6 description scale. eg. very low, low, med, high, very high

The scouts only give such limited information on these things.

It's kind of ridiculous that these attributes are kept hidden, while other mental attributes are left completely open in a 1-20 scale.

While we are on this subject I strongly suggest to the SI team to remove the whole PA system. Keep CA as it is but remove this ridiculous number called PA.

So while theoretically every player has uncapped potential, their growth will be limited by these factors.

- Age, personality, injury, appropriate division level experience, first team exposure, training facility and quality, tutors, and others you may find to be relevant.

Obviously some factors will be more weighed than others, but this method makes the game far more realistic for youngsters and especially newgens.

---

And another thing, it would be so much better to show the personality and other hidden attributes in a more specific way.

There are like 8 different aspects of a player's in game personality, and a single word description like 'resolute' doesn't really help. The scout or coach reports should be a bit more detailed about this.

And also same with the hidden attributes like injury pronness, consistency, important matches. Fair enough they don't have to be shown in 1-20 scale, but at least on something like a 1-6 description scale. eg. very low, low, med, high, very high

The scouts only give such limited information on these things.

It's kind of ridiculous that these attributes are kept hidden, while other mental attributes are left completely open in a 1-20 scale.

I disagree.

You are implying that SI should remove PA, and so, potentially, all players could become world class players, restricted by such things as "Age, personality, injury, appropriate division level experience, first team exposure, training facility and quality, tutors, and others you may find to be relevant."

This is wrong. The likes of Arsenal, Man Utd etc get in a load of kids in every year, and some do make it into world class players, but a lot don't, as they are simply not good enough. If it was possible to turn any player into a world class player, given the right factors, then there all of the tops teams players would become world class. This simply isn't true. CA is a quick representation of the current stats, PA is the stats could go up to. ie: PA shows us how restricted the player is in developing, based on factors that cannot change.

For example, you could have two identical twins, with identical stats and identical training etc, but one would become a better player as they are more determined. This increased determination would be reflected in the PA.

Also, it has been suggested to have a PA that is not fixed - again I think this is wrong. Just as different people have different opinions on players current ability, a players PA is also not easy to judge in real life. As you may see a player having more potential, this is simply us (as managers, or even the media), having a better formed view on the player. This is why PA is usually hidden - it is not ever easy to see in real life 100%.

On the hidden attributes.

The point is that some players you can easily tell what they are like in some aspects - for example thier crossing ability - by studying that player in matches and training. You can get a generally accepted opinion on that players ability for these attributes.

Other attributes are not as easy to tell. Opinions on that persons ability for these attributres will differ grately between people, as they are not as easy to judge. If you scout the player, the scout should give you his opinion on the player, but it is just that - his opinion, which is why you can't put a specific number on it. I think that you are saying that, given enough scouting knowledge, you would have a valid opinion on these attributes, so should be able to put some kind of figure on these attributes. That is the issue - you can never have that detailed a knowledge of a player - that is what makes football interesting, as some players may fail at places as managers don't rate him highly on these hidden attributes, whilst other managers would rate them.

I agree that the current system is not ideal, however, but at the moment I think that this system is the best one out there.

I disagree.

You are implying that SI should remove PA, and so, potentially, all players could become world class players, restricted by such things as "Age, personality, injury, appropriate division level experience, first team exposure, training facility and quality, tutors, and others you may find to be relevant."

This is wrong. The likes of Arsenal, Man Utd etc get in a load of kids in every year, and some do make it into world class players, but a lot don't, as they are simply not good enough. If it was possible to turn any player into a world class player, given the right factors, then there all of the tops teams players would become world class. This simply isn't true. CA is a quick representation of the current stats, PA is the stats could go up to. ie: PA shows us how restricted the player is in developing, based on factors that cannot change.

For example, you could have two identical twins, with identical stats and identical training etc, but one would become a better player as they are more determined. This increased determination would be reflected in the PA.

Also, it has been suggested to have a PA that is not fixed - again I think this is wrong. Just as different people have different opinions on players current ability, a players PA is also not easy to judge in real life. As you may see a player having more potential, this is simply us (as managers, or even the media), having a better formed view on the player. This is why PA is usually hidden - it is not ever easy to see in real life 100%.

On the hidden attributes.

The point is that some players you can easily tell what they are like in some aspects - for example thier crossing ability - by studying that player in matches and training. You can get a generally accepted opinion on that players ability for these attributes.

Other attributes are not as easy to tell. Opinions on that persons ability for these attributres will differ grately between people, as they are not as easy to judge. If you scout the player, the scout should give you his opinion on the player, but it is just that - his opinion, which is why you can't put a specific number on it. I think that you are saying that, given enough scouting knowledge, you would have a valid opinion on these attributes, so should be able to put some kind of figure on these attributes. That is the issue - you can never have that detailed a knowledge of a player - that is what makes football interesting, as some players may fail at places as managers don't rate him highly on these hidden attributes, whilst other managers would rate them.

I agree that the current system is not ideal, however, but at the moment I think that this system is the best one out there.

I never said that every young player can all become world class players. I said that it is theoretically possible, but is not in reality.

You said that top teams get loads of promising young players but only a handful of them become world class. I agree. But have you asked yourself WHY?

Why are some of them simply not good enough?

- Because they don't have the right attitude to be the best (personality including determination) <- this is a big factor.

- Because they were too old when they started football (age)

- Because they were simply not born with the ability (CA) <- If their starting CA is too low, then obviously it's harder for them to reach the top, if they ever do. <- big uncontrollable factor

- Because they had serious injuries at a young age (injuries) <- also uncontrollable

- Because they got into the top team too early and didn't fit into the club (appropriate level)

- Because they never got the first team experience when they needed it (first team exposure) - barcelona's method of youth growth.

- Because they never had good mentors (tutors)

So yes. Given the right factors, a young player can become a world class player. But the 'right factors' are VERY hard to come by.

You assumed that every player can have the 'right factors', but no, because some factors are almost unchangeable and out of our control, especially their starting CA, personality, and injuries

Obviously all young players don't have all the 'right factors'. So hence only a few become top players.

What I'm saying is, These multiple factors should add up to determine a player's PA, not some separate number. And so this PA will change slightly or massively according to the turn of events.

OK, so this is not quite necessary with the real life players in game, because researchers often use common sense to match things up.

But the problem occurs when everything is random. Newgens.

Often there are young newgens with awesome personality stats and perfect surrounding conditions, but their future is capped off by this strange random number called PA.

This WHOLE suggestion of mine is focused specifically at newgens, not researched real life players, but it can also work for real life promising youngsters.

Make sense?

- Because they were simply not born with the talent (CA) <- If their starting CA is too low, then obviously it's harder for them to reach the top, if they ever do.

Right here is your problem, this should really be viewed as their PA.

I don't agree with losing PA, I could have played for Man Utd, had all the right coaches etc but there would have been a limit to my abilities and I wouldn't have been good enough to play professionally.

Its also worth pointing out that within FM not many players reach their PA at the higher levels.

As to your other point about personalities I would agree some areas could be clearer but much of what you want is available if you take the time to explore the various options available.

Right here is your problem, this should really be viewed as their PA.

I don't agree with losing PA, I could have played for Man Utd, had all the right coaches etc but there would have been a limit to my abilities and I wouldn't have been good enough to play professionally.

Its also worth pointing out that within FM not many players reach their PA at the higher levels.

As to your other point about personalities I would agree some areas could be clearer but much of what you want is available if you take the time to explore the various options available.

How?

What someone has at a young age is obviously their CA.

I agree that their current talent/ability largely reflects what their PA is going to be, but it doesn't necessarily mean that their current talent IS their PA.

Plenty of players have shown promise at a young age but not developed despite seemingly having the right personality, conditions etc.

Francis Jeffers is often used as an example but I would also consider people like Michael Owen & Lee Sharpe as falling into that category.

Plenty of players have shown promise at a young age but not developed despite seemingly having the right personality, conditions etc.

Francis Jeffers is often used as an example but I would also consider people like Michael Owen & Lee Sharpe as falling into that category.

Well, I can't be sure, but I think there is always a reason.

It could be lack of ambition to be better than now, or inability to settle into the team's tactics, lost opportunities, personal issues.. etc.

I think the issue is then that the PA does not reflect in the stats given to the new gens currently. As you said, "there are young newgens with awesome personality stats and perfect surrounding conditions, but their future is capped off by this strange random number called PA".

I think this is the issue. PA, as I see it is only a quick one number figure as to the potential a player could be. So, in effect, there are some players which the computer assigns a low (ish) PA, but some stats given to that player are too high, implying a higher PA - ie: the personality stats (in your opinion). I think this area may need work.

Also, I think the confusion is that PA shows who good the player can get, given the perfect conditions. Obviously not all players get the perfect conditions, so will never reach that PA. You need to seperate the individual players stats and his surrounding environment.

These:

- Because they got into the top team too early and didn't fit into the club (appropriate level)

- Because they never got the first team experience when they needed it (first team exposure) - barcelona's method of youth growth.

- Because they never had good mentors (tutors)

are club focused, and so should never be reflected in the players stats.

These:

- Because they were too old when they started football (age)

- Because they were simply not born with the ability (CA) <- If their starting CA is too low, then obviously it's harder for them to reach the top, if they ever do. <- big uncontrollable factor

- Because they had serious injuries at a young age (injuries) <- also uncontrollable

affect the players ability to get to thier "PA".

PA is where the player could get to, given the perfect external factors.

Thinking of it in the reverse, you could get a player with no injuries, starting at a young age, that fitted into the club etc, but never get to the levels to say, ronaldo, as they come to a point where they no longer improve. If there was a reason as to why this happens to certain players, then the likes of Arsenal, Man Utd etc would do something about this and so would easily be able to train up world class players.

In real life, EVERYTHING affects the growth of young players.

So why would club focused conditions not affect a player's level of potential?

Is it just a coincidence that Barcelona tend to produce a higher percentage of good players from their youth? while a lot of other top teams struggle to nurture talented young players?

I agree that this is a complex issue and it can't be drawn down to a handful of conditions, but it's a start where we can develop the idea and expand the system.

In real life, EVERYTHING affects the growth of young players.

So why would club focused conditions not affect a player's level of potential?

Is it just a coincidence that Barcelona tend to produce a higher percentage of good players from their youth? while a lot of other top teams struggle to nurture talented young players?

I agree that this is a complex issue and it can't be drawn down to a handful of conditions, but it's a start where we can develop the idea and expand the system.

The growth of young players yes, not as to where they can get to.

I think the reason why Barcelona produce a higher percentage is to do with thier ability to nurture young talent, but also as they have that reputation, and so tend to attract the better young players.

This is reflected in the game - ie: if your club has a better reputation etc, then you tend to get better new gens, with higher potentials.