Thoughts on this set up?

[jjtile]

Just started a new save. Haven't played any games yet, but thought I'd post my tactic and see if anyone can stop any obvious flaws.

Overall, the tactics is geared towards possession and careful build up.

The DMd and the two CD provide some defensive solidity.

RGA provides creativity and passed forward through the middle.

IF and SS are main attacking threats - with DLF &, RGA providing them with the ball through the middle and the Winger and FB on the right-hand side providing crossed from the right.

FB on the left provides some support and width in midfield.

[Experienced Defender]

35 minutes ago, jjtile said:

Overall, the tactics is geared towards possession and careful build up

Sorry, but to me it does not seem so with this setup of roles and duties (plus the formation itself is not ideal for possession styles, though can be made to work by proper selection of roles, duties and instructions).

Instruction are possession-friendly, but roles and duties not really. 

Anyway, this is just my theory, which may prove wrong. Test the tactic and see, maybe it will work 

[jjtile]

4 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Sorry, but to me it does not seem so with this setup of roles and duties (plus the formation itself is not ideal for possession styles, though can be made to work by proper selection of roles, duties and instructions).

Instruction are possession-friendly, but roles and duties not really. 

Anyway, this is just my theory, which may prove wrong. Test the tactic and see, maybe it will work 

What do you reckon the issues are?

[Experienced Defender]

25 minutes ago, jjtile said:

What do you reckon the issues are?

Well, since you said that the tactic "is geared towards possession and careful build up", I will comment from that perspective. 

First, your right flank has both crossing-heavy roles - winger and FB on attack - which is obviously not possession-oriented.

Then a regista - while nice role in its own right - is an aggressive type of playmaker (as opposed to the DLP), which is also not suited to possession-based styles. 

On the left flank, a FB on support duty is usually not an ideal choice as a deeper partner for an inside-oriented role (such as IW, IF and the like), because the roles is rather conservative, which can therefore lead to a lack of attacking width on that flank. You can change him into a WB on support, but then the problem is that you have a regista on that side, who is neither holding nor covering role.

[jjtile]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Well, since you said that the tactic "is geared towards possession and careful build up", I will comment from that perspective. 

First, your right flank has both crossing-heavy roles - winger and FB on attack - which is obviously not possession-oriented.

Then a regista - while nice role in its own right - is an aggressive type of playmaker (as opposed to the DLP), which is also not suited to possession-based styles. 

On the left flank, a FB on support duty is usually not an ideal choice as a deeper partner for an inside-oriented role (such as IW, IF and the like), because the roles is rather conservative, which can therefore lead to a lack of attacking width on that flank. You can change him into a WB on support, but then the problem is that you have a regista on that side, who is neither holding nor covering role.

Thanks. This is all super useful. Going to take another look/really focus on these points when watching the first few matches.

One thing I'd query - the in-game Regista tooltip explicitly says it's "suitable for possession-oriented systems". Am I missing a nuance with that?

[scratchmonkey]

13 minutes ago, jjtile said:

One thing I'd query - the in-game Regista tooltip explicitly says it's "suitable for possession-oriented systems". Am I missing a nuance with that?

The qualifying bit of that description is pretty important, which is "suitable for possession-oriented systems that press high up the pitch".

Now, this may apply to your system, which has a high defensive line and is asking your team to do a lot of pressing, and if you're a top team in your league, I'd expect you to be able to win the possession battle in most games, even with this system/using a Regista. That said, the Regista will probably turn the ball over more than any other player on your team simply because they have the Take More Risks Player Instruction hard-coded and as such, they'll try a lot of low-percentage balls regardless of what you have set in your Team Instructions. I think this is what ED means, that the Regista personally isn't suited to a team that wants to have the ball at all times as a strategic goal, just because they do turn it over a fair amount. Whereas what the game means by saying that it's suitable for aggressive pressing, possession-based football is that while the opponent is pinned in their defensive third, you'll probably want a roaming player who will try the unexpected to unlock them, which is what the Regista does.

Which is to say, a Regista is a net-negative player when it comes to retaining possession individually; however, and possibly, unintuitively, this means that it's a good role for attacking, aggressive teams who otherwise might have a lot of possession and no end product.

Edited July 31, 2020 by scratchmonkey

[Experienced Defender]

15 hours ago, scratchmonkey said:

I think this is what ED means, that the Regista personally isn't suited to a team that wants to have the ball at all times as a strategic goal, just because they do turn it over a fair amount. Whereas what the game means by saying that it's suitable for aggressive pressing, possession-based football is that while the opponent is pinned in their defensive third, you'll probably want a roaming player who will try the unexpected to unlock them, which is what the Regista does

Exactly 

Although a regista's style can be somewhat modified by adjustments in tempo, mentality and things like that. But generally speaking, the DLP is better suited for patient possession styles. Whereby a possession style should not be confused with nominal possession stats (e.g. Liverpool dominates possession in almost every match, but does not play possession football).

[jjtile]

On 01/08/2020 at 00:08, scratchmonkey said:

The qualifying bit of that description is pretty important, which is "suitable for possession-oriented systems that press high up the pitch".

Now, this may apply to your system, which has a high defensive line and is asking your team to do a lot of pressing, and if you're a top team in your league, I'd expect you to be able to win the possession battle in most games, even with this system/using a Regista. That said, the Regista will probably turn the ball over more than any other player on your team simply because they have the Take More Risks Player Instruction hard-coded and as such, they'll try a lot of low-percentage balls regardless of what you have set in your Team Instructions. I think this is what ED means, that the Regista personally isn't suited to a team that wants to have the ball at all times as a strategic goal, just because they do turn it over a fair amount. Whereas what the game means by saying that it's suitable for aggressive pressing, possession-based football is that while the opponent is pinned in their defensive third, you'll probably want a roaming player who will try the unexpected to unlock them, which is what the Regista does.

Which is to say, a Regista is a net-negative player when it comes to retaining possession individually; however, and possibly, unintuitively, this means that it's a good role for attacking, aggressive teams who otherwise might have a lot of possession and no end product.

 

On 01/08/2020 at 15:53, Experienced Defender said:

Exactly 

Although a regista's style can be somewhat modified by adjustments in tempo, mentality and things like that. But generally speaking, the DLP is better suited for patient possession styles. Whereby a possession style should not be confused with nominal possession stats (e.g. Liverpool dominates possession in almost every match, but does not play possession football).

Just so I'm 100% clear on this...

You're both talking about the difference between (a) sytems that generate high possession by retaining possession - i.e. patient, low-risk, not giving the ball away and (b) systems that generate high possession by focussing on quickly regaining possession through aggressive pressing - i.e. more risk-taking and instances of lost possession than (a), but making up for that by quickly getting it back? Am I understanding that right?

Edited August 11, 2020 by jjtile

[Experienced Defender]

Yes