Problem with midfielders not pressing in 4-1-2-2-1

[st1p]

Hi!

I've tested this with this tactic:

 PI's: Pogba and Alex Telles with close down more. Chong with stay wider.

 

My issue is that I don't get my midfield trio to press nearly as I want. My intention is to be relentless in the press, not letting them breathe for a second. This applies (especially) to GK's and set pieces in the opposition half.

What I get is this:

 

On goal kicks and throw-ins, my midfield trio isn't doing "anything". As a result, Fabianski can constantly pass it short, and recycle possession between the center-backs, the anchor and the keeper. As West Ham isn't able to advance it with much success, most of the match(!) is actually played around the box, with my most advanced trio chasing between them untill West Ham try to get it forward, where they usually aren't able to do anything with it.

 

Question: How do I get my midfield trio to impose themselves in more advanced positions, especially from set-pieces? I am not interested in man-marking, zone is the way to go.

 

Further, I am not able to get my team to press high-enough when we've lost possession, or when West Ham decides to reset by passing it back to the keeper. What I get is this:

In the picture above, the lcb has passed to the rcb who then passed it back to Fabianski. My team will not push up by any means (this happens every. single. time.)

Another example of my team staying insanely deep. A total of three backpasses have been made before making it back to Fabianski. My team will not push up, except for my front three. West Ham once again able to just recycle possession between the GK, CB's and midfield. This actually happens a lot even after I get the opening goal early in the 2nd half and throughout the game.

 

How do I get my team to press in a more intelligent way, and higher? The tactic is somehow very successfull defensively, as teams are not able to create much. They recycle possession in their own third while my front trio run in between. If they advance it towards midfield, my midfield trio gets involved, but the pressing isn't very intelligent (two players on one).

 

TLDR;
-How do I get my midfield trio to press?

-How do I get my front trio to press more intelligently (Not two on the keeper, blocking passing lanes)

 

[Experienced Defender]

15 hours ago, st1p said:

Well, this tactic is designed to encourage pretty high levels of pressing intensity by your players, since it employs both lines much higher, more urgent pressing and prevent short GKD under a high team mentality (positive).

Now, if you are not pleased with the intensity of pressing, you can up it to the extremely urgent. If after that you still think it's not enough, you can increase the mentality (to attacking or even very attacking) as a last resort. But keep in mind that any change of the mentality will automatically alter all other instructions as well.

The highest level of pressing urgency that you can achieve is - very attacking team mentality + much higher DL, much higher LOE, extremely urgent pressing and prevent GKD. If you want to go even more to extremes, you can add the Get stuck in and tight marking (and use a pressing forward role for the striker).

On the other hand, players may sometimes press less than they are expected/asked to due to their attributes (i.e. lacking some of them that are directly associated with either ability or willingness to press aggressively). Or maybe they have simply gotten too tired due to the intense pressing they were applying, so they cannot physically execute such degree of pressing anymore (until they recover).

[st1p]

Thank you for your reply.

 

Good input, but I don't feel I quite got the answers I wanted/needed. My main issue is that my midfield trio won't push up in certain situations. As you see from the screenshots, they aren't doing "anything" on GK's. Am I wrong to assume that they should be marking/pressing the opposition midfield trio? Is there some instruction I've missed out on? The same applies to throw-ins, as we can also see from the screenshot. My midfield trio is just passively located in front of my defence. Neither my defence or my midfield trio are pushing up, marking/applying pressure.

 

Seeing as your answer is focusing on the even higher mentalities, is it not possible to achieve what I want with the current mentality?

[Experienced Defender]

19 minutes ago, st1p said:

Seeing as your answer is focusing on the even higher mentalities, is it not possible to achieve what I want with the current mentality?

Have you tried with the extremely urgent pressing?

[st1p]

34 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Have you tried with the extremely urgent pressing?

Hmm, not in a very scientific way. Will try.

 

What does the urgency-setting do? How much does it impact shape? I really want to keep the shape, just push them further upfield, making them more involved in the press, not necessarily more urgent.

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, st1p said:

Hmm, not in a very scientific way. Will try

Listen, I never create tactics that are overly aggressive in terms of pressing, simply because it's not my cup of tea (I like playing in a more sensible manner). So I am just telling you what you could try to get (closer to) what you want. But I cannot say if that's gonna turn out good or bad for you and your team. "Be careful what you wish for", as the saying goes  

 

1 hour ago, st1p said:

What does the urgency-setting do?

The pressing urgency team instructions defines how aggressive (in general) you want your players (i.e. the team as a whole) to be when pressing/closing down the ball (i.e. the opposition player who has the ball at the moment). Like all other instructions, pressing urgency is directly affected by your team mentality. Therefore, the more urgent pressing on a lower mentality and the more urgent pressing on a higher mentality will not be the same. 

 

1 hour ago, st1p said:

How much does it impact shape?

The more aggressive (urgent) pressing is, the more likely your defensive shape is to be disrupted. That's the simplest answer to your question. Basically the same applies to tackling and marking instructions.

[st1p]

Thank you very much for your repeated replies. Very helpful!

 

I'll test if tuning the urgency will help me achieve what I want, but I'm not entirely sure I want more urgency. I really just want my team to "compress" more. The back four needs to stay with their attackers, so they are right where I want them in the first screenshots. The front three are also where I want them, applying pressure to the backline. If I could get my midfield trio to push higher when the opposition midfield drops deep on GK's, I'm where I want to be. A bit odd it is this hard to achieve that.

 

Also, on throw-ins... The positioning of my back four and midfield trio makes absolutely zero sense. They seem to just be stationed by default, not paying any attention to what the opposition does. Is it a bug? The ME not being "good enough"? I don't believe they should behave like that taking into account my tactics. Although I'm not pressing with extreme urgency, it is/should be pretty high. For the team to be positioned like that when the opposition has a throw-in near their own corner flag... Can't be as intended(?)

 

I would like my team to station themselves like this (the lines indicate where I would want them to be) when the opposition has that throw-in:

Edited February 21, 2020 by st1p

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, st1p said:

If I could get my midfield trio to push higher when the opposition midfield drops deep on GK's, I'm where I want to be

See if the "close down more" player instruction is available for your midfielders when you use more urgent pressing as a team instruction. 

[st1p]

3 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

See if the "close down more" player instruction is available for your midfielders when you use more urgent pressing as a team instruction. 

Only for the regista(su), not the bwm(su). Actually, Pogba already has that. He is on CM(a) with "close down more", and we see him being stationed somewhat higher than the rest of the midfield on GKs.

 

I thought "close down more" was an instruction that altered the frequency/urgency, not that much position? Am I wrong? As I've said, would really like to stay somewhat organized and in the same shape as now, just with the entire trio further upfield. Seeing as the bwm(su) should be an optimum choice for what I intend to do, I'm leaning towards some sort of bug, or that the ME is just plain bad. Very disappointing, to say the least.

[Experienced Defender]

43 minutes ago, st1p said:

Only for the regista(su), not the bwm(su)

Yeah, because the BWM as a role is set to defend aggressively by default. 

 

44 minutes ago, st1p said:

I thought "close down more" was an instruction that altered the frequency/urgency, not that much position?

Of course it affects pressing urgency. Position is defined by your formation and, in relative terms, by mentality. 

[st1p]

Hmmm. Is there any way to find out if this is working as intended, or if it's a faulty ME (bugged or otherwise)?

 

If it's working as it should, there should be done something to ensure you can press without having to place your midfielders in the AM strata.

 

What are your thoughts on the throw-ins?