Help me pls 343

[Skrtl]

Having three at the back with high pace/acc and play with a high defensive line has alway been a key for success for me but I just can't get it to work this time. I've been winning Champoins League with Berlin Köpenick-Dammfield in previous games with tactics close to this and players with the same ability.
The tactic above is not exactly what I've been using all the time but the last thing I am trying right now...
I think my team is good enough for europa league, but I just can't break in to the top 7....Please help me.

This is my striking force:





My three at the back:





Herbie Kane as DLP:




The rest of the outfield players is rotating/squad players.

What Im I doing wrong?

thanks

Edit; I barely have any instructions because I want to keep it simple since I just can't get it to work, that's why play out of defense is my only in possession instruction (right now).

Edited January 14, 2020 by Skrtl

[Experienced Defender]

45 minutes ago, Skrtl said:

A lot of contradictions in your tactic (among other things). It requires a lot of changes IMO.

In terms of roles and duties, you are very one-dimensional on the flanks (absolutely no variety there).

Then you have all 3 CBs in BPD role, which is an overkill even if all of them have the right attributes for a BPD. One BPD is quite enough. 

In terms of instructions, your manner of defending is overly aggressive and hence needlessly risky - a mistake made by too many people.

Waste time sometimes - what's the exact reasoning behind this instruction, given that the rest of your tactic does not suggest you are looking to play a defensive style of football?

The most important thing is - do you know exactly what style of football you want to play and why? And do you take your players' strengths and weaknesses - as well as your team's overall reputation -  into account when you create a tactic? 

[Skrtl]

23 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

A lot of contradictions in your tactic (among other things). It requires a lot of changes IMO.

In terms of roles and duties, you are very one-dimensional on the flanks (absolutely no variety there).

Then you have all 3 CBs in BPD role, which is an overkill even if all of them have the right attributes for a BPD. One BPD is quite enough. 

In terms of instructions, your manner of defending is overly aggressive and hence needlessly risky - a mistake made by too many people.

Waste time sometimes - what's the exact reasoning behind this instruction, given that the rest of your tactic does not suggest you are looking to play a defensive style of football?

The most important thing is - do you know exactly what style of football you want to play and why? And do you take your players' strengths and weaknesses - as well as your team's overall reputation -  into account when you create a tactic? 

My tactic looks like this in the moment hence I can't make any tactic work, so that's why it looks a little weird.

My style of football I want to play is an aggressive counterattack style based on a high defensive line that is very fast to pick the ball when opponent try to play long balls that I try to force them to do with my aggressive style, stressing them to play long. The plan is that my CB's won't get outsped when the long ball comes, pick up the ball, and from there I will recover possesion. Thats why I play an aggressive defensive style. This has worked very well in previous games.

Why I have three BPD is due to their individual stats, yes. I like left CB and right CB to be BPD to be able to set up the game from both sides. The middle CB is only BPD due to he's stats.

How can I make it more dimensional on the wings? Please give me some suggestions.

The midfielder that is not DLP have instruction "less risky" just so that they won't do mistakes as you implied; my playstyle is vurnable to mistakes. But I am quite unclear how to use him. 

When it comes to attacking style (while I retained possession) I don't really know how to play. When I took over the team I just play fast and direct "play ball into space" to Mousset, a very fast forward I had at the start. This made me survive in the PL, but it didn't took me further than surviving. I have tried a lot of different things but nothing works to perfection. I guess this is what i need help for.

Waste time sometimes is something I implemented when I was a relegation candidate and it helped me a lot. I kept it since then so that my players will get some rest due to the aggressive style of playing and not be fatigued during the match. I don't know if that's the right thing to do though.

I tried a lot of attacking instructions before, I just try to keep it simple for now to make my tactic work.

Thank you for the answer!

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Skrtl

[Experienced Defender]

Just now, Skrtl said:

My style of football I want to play is an aggressive counterattack style based on a high defensive line that is very fast to pick the ball when opponent try to play long balls that I triy to force them to do with my aggressive style. The plan is that my CB's won't get outsped, pick up the long ball, and from there I will recover possesion. Thats why I play an aggressive defensive style. This has worked very well in previous games

I don't know how it worked in previous games (matches or previous FM iterations?), but what I do know is that counter-attacking styles never go hand in hand with a higher (let alone much higher) LOE. which you have in your tactic. Because for counter-attacking football, you need to lure the opposition into your half, as opposed to pressing them high up the pitch. Therefore the LOE should not be higher than standard (if you really want to play a counter-based style). DL can be set to higher - although that's not necessary btw - but the LOE should not. I hope you understand my point. 

 

9 minutes ago, Skrtl said:

How can I make it more dimensioal on the wings? Please give me some suggestions

You don't need to make the flanks more one-dimensional, because they already are one-dimensional. Instead, you need to make them less one-dimensional. 

How? By not using totally identical roles and duties on both flanks.

Of course, you should not just change these roles/duties randomly (for the sake of changing them). It needs to make sense. 

I'll give you an example based on your current setup (from the screenshot you posted):

PFat

IFsu                               Wat

DLPde   BBM

WBat                           WBsu

I don't say that you should use this specific setup, because I don't know your players (I'll take a closer look at their profiles later). I just wanted to give you one possible example of how you can get more variety in your attacks. But there are other options of course (some of which may include the IWB role for example). 

21 minutes ago, Skrtl said:

The midfielder that is not DLP have instruction "less risky" just so that they won't do mistakes as you implied

"Less risky"? You mean "take less risks"? 

 

24 minutes ago, Skrtl said:

I just try to keep it simple for now to make my tactic work

Keeping it simple is a very good idea, and I personally always look to keep my tactics as simple as possible. But besides being simple, a tactic also needs to be well-balanced, logical and not one-dimensional.

I'll analyze your players from the screenshots and then tell you how I would set the tactic up. I you don't mind, of course 

[Skrtl]

12 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

I don't know how it worked in previous games (matches or previous FM iterations?), but what I do know is that counter-attacking styles never go hand in hand with a higher (let alone much higher) LOE. which you have in your tactic. Because for counter-attacking football, you need to lure the opposition into your half, as opposed to pressing them high up the pitch. Therefore the LOE should not be higher than standard (if you really want to play a counter-based style). DL can be set to higher - although that's not necessary btw - but the LOE should not. I hope you understand my point. 

 

You don't need to make the flanks more one-dimensional, because they already are one-dimensional. Instead, you need to make them less one-dimensional. 

How? By not using totally identical roles and duties on both flanks.

Of course, you should not just change these roles/duties randomly (for the sake of changing them). It needs to make sense. 

I'll give you an example based on your current setup (from the screenshot you posted):

PFat

IFsu                               Wat

DLPde   BBM

WBat                           WBsu

I don't say that you should use this specific setup, because I don't know your players (I'll take a closer look at their profiles later). I just wanted to give you one possible example of how you can get more variety in your attacks. But there are other options of course (some of which may include the IWB role for example). 

"Less risky"? You mean "take less risks"? 

 

Keeping it simple is a very good idea, and I personally always look to keep my tactics as simple as possible. But besides being simple, a tactic also needs to be well-balanced, logical and not one-dimensional.

I'll analyze your players from the screenshots and then tell you how I would set the tactic up. I you don't mind, of course 

With counterattack I don't mean conventional counter attack (lure opposition) I mean that you start to attack as soon as you retain possession, so that you can exploit oppositions vulnarable state of transition. Basically gegenpress, try to "counter" high up the pitch. So I don't mean normal counterplay when I say counterplay.... maybe a little unclear hehe...

Thanks for the inputs, I will try to make the flanks a little more various.

But how would you play in attacking with this tactics? Direct? Fast? Slow? And what team instructions etc... I think this is my biggest problem, I haven't really figured that out. I've tried to play direct, fast, wide and with overlaps, but it haven't really worked.

I don't mind at all if you analyze how you'd set up the tactis... that's why I asked in the forum

thnks!

[Experienced Defender]

6 minutes ago, Skrtl said:

With counterattack I don't mean conventional counter attack (lure opposition) I mean that you start to attack as soon as you retain possession, so that you can exploit oppositions vulnarable state of transition. Basically gegenpress, try to "counter" high up the pitch. So I don't mean normal counterplay when I say counterplay.... maybe a little unclear hehe...

Okay. So you actually want an aggressive and fast attacking style (gegenpress or something to that effect), where counter-attacks would be just an extra weapon, rather than the primary style of play. I got it 

However, in order to put such an extreme style of play into practice, you really need very good players in all positions and roles. Even Klopp does not play gegenpress anymore, because he was smart enough to understand that it's not the best idea in the strongest league in the world (the EPL, of course). 

12 minutes ago, Skrtl said:

But how would you play in attacking with this tactics? Direct? Fast? Slow? And what team instructions etc

This depends a lot on the team mentality you play on, because the mentality has an automatic effect on all other instructions. For the style of play you said you want to implement, the mentality should not be lower than the Positive. Now, if you do opt for the Positive, then the following instructions could be a good starting point for your desired style of play:

In possession: play out of defence, higher tempo, shorter passing, run at defence, be more expressive, pass into space, fairly narrow width

In transition: counter, counter-press, distribute quickly

Out of possession: higher DL, standard LOE, use tighter marking, prevent short GKD 

But again - you really need great players for this to work. And of course, you need to set up roles and duties in the right way.

[Skrtl]

Thanks but I just rage quit and deleted FM from my computer! This was just to frustrating! 

But thank you VERY MUCH for all your help!

[Experienced Defender]

No problem mate, you are welcome.