Struggling at best, Impossible against "Big Teams" [3-4-3, Counter Attacking]

[BrianMunich]

The way I want to play is based around counter attacking teams on the break, but just not seeing too much of what I want to happen actually happening. I'm a few seasons in and have built a squad that was designed to be able to work hard and press well. Up to the start of this season (2020/21) I was in hopeless pursuit of being able to counter-press teams. So my current squad is well shaped with high team work, determination, bravery, work rate in the right areas. I believe I have the perfect team to get the right balance of being threatening in attack and being able to open teams up with the ball, whilst being able to comfortably shut out most offences.    

-Against smaller/equal teams at home I just keep the ball and can't find any break through - with counter attacks rarely coming off. Away from home these sort of sides stay on top of me, and I see no counter attacking play at all. 

-Against any sort of big team it's totally hopeless (last match, 4-0 away Man United was the last straw). I don't counter attack at all, I camp in my own box, and any time a player has the ball they lose it

 

Below is the basic team set-up, sometimes I change the front 3 combination to a DLF (Mandzukic), SS (Rashford), AM(s) if I'm playing away from home or against a bigger team. I've stripped my tactic right back in a hope to start over again - only adding shouts in game, closely seeing how they don't work and then reverting back.   

Counter - Fluid [Play Out of Defence, Prevent Short GK Distribution]

Player Instructions; AML + AMR both move into channels, roam from position, GK set to short distrubution

Reasons why I've picked what I have... 

3-4-3 - suits my squad, and ideal first XI. I'm thinking keeping 3 at the back at all times, should allow me to be more expressive with the wide players, allowing them to give width and support/penetration in attack. 

Counter - I want my team to control matches with the ball when I can't counter attack, but in matches where the game is more open stay tight in defence and have that threat offensively on the break. 

Fluid - I want my team to stay compact with out the ball, and be able to break together as a unit and generally play fluid offensive football. 

Goalkeeper Christian Fruchtl 

Usual reasons for having a sweeper keeper in addition with the luxury of the player suiting the role. His usual distribution is to defence. 

Defence  Chancel Mbemba, Mauricio Lemos, Timothee Kolodziejczak 

Haven't varied from anything here so not sure what to say. In the wider roles I play players who are more than comfortable playing full back. In games I often set man marking systems with CB vs ST or RCB/LCB vs 2ST. 

Midfield Radaman Sobhi, Thiago Maia, Naby Keita, Jack Wilshere 

I want my two wingers to provide width and stretch teams. I've set one to support so that they better link defence to attack as they are the sole player wide (thinking now I should have both support to help transitions due to having no other players wide). At the base of midfield I have two screening players, the roles are largely based around my best XI suitability but I believe they should function. I want RPM (Naby Kieta) to have freedom of the midfield to be able to link defence to attack and offer support inside to wide players. The BMW(D) (Thiago Maia) I want to be able to win the ball back either higher up or lower down to quickly release the players around him to get attacks going. 

Forwards 

As mentioned above my combination between 2-1 or 1-2 in the front three sometimes changes, as do roles. I have Marcus Rashford who I like to play as a Advanced Forward, and Mario Mandzukic who can play as a DLF.  Rashford has been scoring for me, and generally playing well as a AF, but by and large I'm a little stuck on why I'm usually picking these roles and mainly hunches on things 'I think should work'. In some games I want Mandzukic to lead the line, holding up play, allowing Rashford sometimes as SS to run in behind into space. Out of the 2 AMs, or when I want to play 1 I want them to link deeper midfield and attack and create and score goals.  

 

[Atarin]

It seems pretty front loaded for a counter-tactic. Unless you're going for counter-pressing then this probably isn't the way to go. Even as a counter pressing system I'm not sure it works that well because its incredibly narrow. You're leaving lots of room for teams to get out. If I was playing you I'd definitely be looking at those flanks and licking my lips.

How are you stopping the keeper and CDs getting the ball to the oppositions fullbacks? How are you stopping your WMs from being bypassed with a quick ball over their head? How are you stopping creative players from sitting in the space between your DMs and your AMs? What do you do about the acres of space outside of your DMs?

I'm not saying its a terrible system but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me, personally.

When I think of Counter tactic I tend to think of 4-1-4-1s, 4-5-1's and 5-4-1s, 4-1-2-2-1s.etc

The common theme as that they sit very deep and compact with lots of players at the base of the formation. The idea is, after all, to soak up pressure. Get the opposition as far away from their own box as possible. Its about creating space and lots of it behind their defensive line or behind their midfield. How does this particular system do that? It looks like you're trying to hem the opposition in high up the pitch, and yet you're set to Counter, which sets your team quite deep.

The Counter Mentality just dictates Width, Tempo, Closing Down, Defensive Line.etc it doesn't necessarily make a counter any more likely if you're not set up for it. 

Also notice you're using Fluid. This tells your Attacking Duties to priorities the Team Mentality, which is Counter. So they think you want them to Defend first and foremost. Again, when I think of Counter systems I think of Structured. Because I want My Defend Duties properly defending. My Support Duties mostly defending and trying to create the counter situation and my Attack Duties lying in wait for the break with goals on their mind. Counter+Fluid is a pretty defensive combo.

[BrianMunich]

Thanks, a lot of that makes sense. Consolidating on what I really want, and how I really would like my team to play - ever since I started the save really - has been more orientated to the counter-press. That's what I formed the squad with in mind. I seemed to just be chasing my tale on that though, so took a step back and tried to find consistent success through sitting back and conventionally countering.   

All things considered, I'm not after my team to keep the ball, or to sit-back and defend 80mins of a game.  When they get the ball, I want first thought to attack. Fast and direct. When I haven't the ball, I'm not after intense-pressing. I want a solid defensive shape. I believe the characteristics of the players I've formed are set-up to work hard on the attack-defence transition, so will naturally press well - but hopefully in a controlled balanced fashion. 

 

With above in mind, would changing to a Standard-Structured approach improve things, bearing in mind what I said above. This would surely see my defensive set roles concentrate on defending, attack on attacking, and support on supporting both. If I were to have a standard approach that would surely be the best set, leaving my supporting players with the right mentality balance to attack and defend in equal responsibility?

Where I say I want first thought to be attack when I get the ball, would raising tempo and passing length give this desired effect? 

 

[dojoneil]

Nice username.

Your system looks like a bit of a mish-mash of styles to me. Your intention says counter, your formation says attacking, and some of your instructions say possession. If you want to play counter, then simplify down to a core intention/approach.

As @Teabs says, counter-attacking basically means drawing as many of your opponent's players as possible into your own half, so that you can get the ball quickly into the space behind their defence when it opens up. Looking at the current best-known proponents of this system: Leicester and Atletico Madrid sit deep, defend in numbers and hit the pacy forward to exploit the space. Obviously there are nuances, but your tactical decisions should be based on your one sentence philosophy.

As it stands, I'd expect to see your three attacking players staying high up on the right hand side, forcing the opposition's defence to stay back when they're in possession. Then when you get the ball back your short GK distribution and Play out of Defence instructions will see your players taking their time to move the ball upfield giving the oppo plenty of time to regain their defensive shape.