west germany 1974 tactic

[CesUtd]

I want to make a West Germany 1974 tactic for Football Manager 2011. The main problem is formation and roles. I have tried Google but not getting clear indications what it could be. Same said 5-3-2, others 1-3-3-3 and yet other 4-4-2 with libero. I need it for Football Manager 2011. Can anyone help? I did try make my own but it is very leaky and not working like it did for them in 1974. I tried 1-3-3-3 with fullbacks to act like Vogts did with Beckenbauer as libero.

If no one can help then at least help with Brazil tactic from 1958 or 1970. Or I know it's some variation on 4-2-4 but again I can't get it to work. Google is not helping.

I tried with:

Goalkeeper-defend, fullback - support, central defender - defend, central defender - cover, fullback - support, box to box mid-support, box to box -support, inside forward-attack, advanced forward - attack, target man-support and inside forward - attack.

I am not sure if I got the forwards wrong but creating so little. I am not very good with tactics so advice would be welcome.

I have read guides but not getting any idea for this formation. I tried to study a guys tactic I found and despite having a great team I concede a lot and score very little.

My players are great in mental skills. My main striker is fast, has great technique, high composure, high finishing, hard worker, has high teamwork, is brave and creative. All skills besides technique are 16 and above. same goes for my two playmakers. My defensive mid can also play as playmaker and has right attributes for that role and being a defensive player. I am not sure how that happened. I tried to train him as as dm but he developed otherwise.

My centrebacks are fast and have very good stats for defenders. My fullbacks are still developing but are fast. I emphasize speed and mental skills.

I hope this helps in helping me get this formation right.

edit: seem to have found something on FM Base for Brazil 1970 that I am trying out but still need help with West Germany.

[ajsr1982]

Germany in 1974 was very similar to the modern 4-2-3-1 we see today. The main difference would be Beckenbauer, I suppose, and you'd want him stepping out of defence with the ball, so I can see how you'd perhaps go with a 1-3-3-3. The problem is, at least in my humble opinion, a four man defence with a Libero is suicide. In FM, that is, but also in modern football in general. The pace of the game, the change in the offside laws and the backpass rule have all contributed to making that defensive set-up completely redundant.

The frustrating thing is that FM doesn't really facilitate a central defender stepping out with the ball (one for the suggestions box perhaps?). You could try to do it with PPMs. But successfully training a CB to have 'Get Forward Whenever Possible' and 'Runs With Ball Through Centre' might be tricky.

To answer the question, however, I'd have Germany something like...

GK/D

FB/S    BPD/C    CB/D    FB/S

CM/D    CM/S

IF/A*         AM/A**           W/S

P/A

* You could also play this guy as a Winger.

** Support duty might be better.

[CesUtd]

Thanks. I can try that. I made one and had an interesting time with it. I used it for Man Utd against my St Pats team and the match was a goal fest. Praised for attack play but defense was bad.

The Brazil 1970 is working well so far. Averaging 74% possession. So far only one goal conceded because I gave my youth defenders a chance. I just made an other for a very promising central defender. I tend to rely on young players mixed with some players in their late 20's for tutoring. Bit of a luxury because I play in Ireland where even promising players are too good for the league.

The problem was Europe.

Thanks for the help.

What classic formation form the past would you suggest that could work in Football Manager?

Got a Barcelona one, Brazil 1970 and made a dutch 1974 tactic.

[ajsr1982]

The thing with trying to plug in a 'classic' formation is that we always try to recreate the ones that were distinct; the real game changers. I've tried the following:

- Herrera's Catennacio

- Holland's Total Football

- Hungary 1954

- Red Star 1991 (this was interesting, but too hard)

- Liverpool 1987-89

- Norway early 90s (I was playing around with trying to get a WTM to work!)

I've never managed to get any of them to REALLY work, but then I probably give up too easily! I think any of them are possible, but you usually have to make some compromises to make them fit for the modern game. The other thing is that they often reply on special players in certain positions, and the whole thing falls apart if you don't have someone comparable.

Something that you could try, that I haven't seen yet, could be England's 1966 'Wingless Wonders'. I don't know how exciting it is, given it's a variation of 4-1-3-2/Narrow Diamond/4-3-2-1, but it would certainly stand the test of time I'd think.

[CesUtd]

Thanks. I can try that. Reading a Hungary 1954 tactic but it seems you are right with defense issues.

The reason I think I could pull it off is I have world class players in my team in every position. Took millions and lots of encouraging the players to improve but I did it. Changed staff etc. Everything was changed to do it. Was helped by an ambitious chairman who replaced the former one.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

I've actually had some success with a stopper-sweeper four man defense in FM, including back on FM11.  It's finicky and takes a bit of doing, though; definitely not plug-and-play.  In some ways it works a bit better in more recent iterations of the game (because the libero actually gets forward a bit), but on FM11 I won the Champions League using it part-time with Fiorentina in year two.  The thing to remember is that, in addition to the changes to the game since '74 that ajsr1982 already mentioned, back then teams used man-marking instead of strictly zonal systems FM was designed to represent; the libero was "free" inasmuch as everybody else on defense was man-marking.  As such, for this type of defense to work you need to assign specific marking assignments to your defenders, especially the stopper to the oppositions center forward (do NOT used this formation against a two- or three forward formation).  You'll probably want your fullbacks to mark the opposing wingers too, and if they have someone in the AMC slot you'll want to assign a midfielder to mark him as well.  Also, I remember in FM11 it was vital to set opposition instructions such that the opposing wingers were forced to the touchline (shown to the foot on whichever wing they played), otherwise they could stroll into the acres of space between the fullback and CB. 

 

 

[CesUtd]

Thanks for the info. I will take that in mind.