USA Hockey

[RhinoHaHa]

There were TWELVE Americans taken in the first round of the NHL draft. I think it's about time the U.S. College and Junior system gets the attention it deserves in this game. About 25% of NHL players are from the U.S. and this game still has basically nothing for young players from this country.

We need NCAA Division I.

We need United States Hockey League.

We need U.S. National Team Development Program.

I am willing to take the lead (if someone is needed) on getting the correct rosters, but I'm not going to do it until these leagues become more functional in the game. They don't even have to be playable, but at least I think they should work more like real life.

If I sound mad about this, I'm not. I'm just excited about the possibilities of how much better this game could be in this area.

Who's with me?

[kidhander1983]

There are absolutely not enough American players drafted in the game.

I think that the DB should be improved on this regards because (but maybe it's not the only problem?) I think that there are not enough players in these leagues and those who are in are often badly researched (0 in CA/PA and/or 0 in all attributes).

I don't have enough knowledge and time to do this myself as I am busy with KHL and Russian leagues. Hopefully someone (you?) can step in and contribute.

Unfortunately, in the years we had a lot of people who claimed to do a lot of things just to disappear two days later.

I think you should write on the TBL forums.

[Nino-33]

There simply aren't enough researchers.....there is no researcher responsible for any American amateur league (the reality is there aren't enough researchers for the playable leagues!)

I'm the contact person/in charge for the TBL Rosters, so if you have actual time and interest please contact me!

All serious offers of help are very gratefully received!

Alessandro's right about people disappearing without actually completing any research (after time is spent explaining things/setting them up).....it actually happens more often than it doesn't

Here's what I wrote over on TBL on June 10th.....

TBL ROSTER RESEARCHERS NEEDED

We are in need of researchers!

I believe we have researchers working on the NHL, Sweden, Russia, the Czech Republic, Norway and the UK & Germany, Slovakia, Croatia and Latvia too.

Keep in mind it takes more than a few hours to help out (likely at least a couple-few hours a week over a number of weeks).....essentially it involves having hours of available freetime, and an interest/willingness to help!

Anyone interested in helping out can let me know via PM!

If you can't send/receive PMs via TBL note your interest in the TBL thread (or I can be PMed here at SI too, or at HockeysFuture too - user name Nino33) http://www.ehmtheblueline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=16593

If there's a particular league/country you're interested in, let me know! Also...

Have you ever done any EHM editing before?

How's your general hockey knowledge? How's your EHM knowledge?

Have you used the EHM Updater or excel before?

[RhinoHaHa]

Yes, I understand that it's hard to get researchers. It's very time consuming. I have helped in the past when I did the entire USHL in 2012 and the NCAA for "the other game" a couple years back. I just don't want to spend all that time when the league doesn't work correctly. I'm not sure anyone even noticed when I did the USHL.

The NCAA is especially tricky. I realize it's not as easy as changing a few of the league rules like some of the other leagues. There are a lot of unique features like players often making commitments years in advance, the class system (freshman, sophomore, junior, senior), and the fact that there is no specific age that players become freshmen (it can range from 18 to as high as 22 sometimes). USHL would probably be easier to implement, but the teams would still need to get new players from somewhere. Is the problem that these unique features that would need to be coded or is it that not enough people care about these leagues to justify spending the time on them?

So like I said before, if we can get some improvements to these leagues (or promises to have them by a certain time) I will gladly help out and even lead the way. I look forward to it. I'll be waiting.

[Nino-33]

Yes, I understand that it's hard to get researchers. It's very time consuming.

Yes it is HaHa

Yes, I understand that it's hard to get researchers. It's very time consuming. I have helped in the past when I did the entire USHL in 2012 and the NCAA for "the other game" a couple years back. I just don't want to spend all that time when the league doesn't work correctly. I'm not sure anyone even noticed when I did the USHL.

I'm in charge of the TBL Rosters, I'd notice for sure; there's also a lot of guidance/direction/support in the TBL Researchers Forum

There are a lot of unique features like players often making commitments years in advance

That's been in EHM since EHM07 (extra_config file)

USHL would probably be easier to implement, but the teams would still need to get new players from somewhere.

The needed leagues have been in EHM since at least EHM07 (players from the USHL would come from the same teams/leagues they do IRL)

Is the problem that these unique features that would need to be coded or is it that not enough people care about these leagues to justify spending the time on them?

Of course unique features would need to be coded.....there's one guy (with a new baby!) doing the best he can in his spare time, so I think it's a lot less about feelings (people not caring enough) and a lot more about the practical fact you can only do so much each day...

So like I said before, if we can get some improvements to these leagues (or promises to have them by a certain time) I will gladly help out and even lead the way. I look forward to it. I'll be waiting.

Fair enough!

Another person has said the same thing about a league in Europe.....the thing is, IMO given that new leagues haven't been advertised/announced previously you could suddenly get your wish and it'll be months before you could have the roster work done - also personally I think a much better selling point is "Riz, the league's all researched and ready to go" than "Riz, even if you make the effort it'll be many months before we'll have the research done to make it worthwhile"

[RhinoHaHa]

You make some good points.

I'm sure some people noticed when I did the USHL when it came to the NHL draft for the first 2-3 years, but then the players in those leagues are never replaced. Also, you have to really be seeking these leagues out to even be able to find them.

I know the extra_config file can make those commitments for the future for guys who already have them. I made hundreds of them when I did the USHL. I was more talking about the AI being able to make them by itself in the future. I'm sure all of these things can be done, but it takes time to plan and code them. And you're right, when it's just one guy doing all of it, that makes it very hard to find the time. Has there ever been talk of a crowdfunding campaign to try to bring in another coder or two?

I think that doing all of the rosters without any knowledge that the leagues will be improved is a bit crazy since it would take hundreds of hours to do it right. There are 60 NCAA teams, 16 USHL teams, plus the USNTDP's U-17 and U-18 teams. I think at least some hint that the work would eventually be rewarded would be a great motivator. How did it work with those British leagues? I know there are some people who care about that, but it doesn't seem as important in the overall hockey universe.

I guess I could try to get the basic player data (name, height, weight, DOB, birthplace, handedness, position) ready in a mass data collection and then worry more about cleaning it up and adding more to specific players if the time comes. I'm such a perfectionist though, that it makes it hard for me to leave things not perfect for a while. I'll think about it.

[Nino-33]

There were TWELVE Americans taken in the first round of the NHL draft.

I was curious and went back to the TBL Rosters from July 2014…….two years ago Auston Matthews, Matthew Tkachuk, Clayton Keller, Logan Brown, Charles McAvoy, Luke Kunin, Jakob Chychrun, Kieffer Bellows, Max Jones and Trent Frederic were already all in the database (Tage Thompson and Riley Tufte were not)

We are a small team at TBL, but we're dedicated, and typically don't miss "significant" players, and in fact they're usually in the database years before their draft year

I guess I could try to get the basic player data (name, height, weight, DOB, birthplace, handedness, position) ready in a mass data collection and then worry more about cleaning it up and adding more to specific players if the time comes. I'm such a perfectionist though, that it makes it hard for me to leave things not perfect for a while. I'll think about it.

That's great to hear you're thinking about it!

Have you looked closely at the TBL 8.2 NCAA Rosters.....IIRC there was work done on them last year

I don't think there was much if any work done on the USHL last year.....

[RhinoHaHa]

I'm sure the top guys would be in the database. It's those later round guys that mean something to me for some reason. Also, plenty of NCAA players turn pro after they leave school. AHL and ECHL get a bunch, plus a good number go to Europe. There are also guys every year that get signed by NHL teams out of college who were never drafted. It just adds another pool of players where you might be able to find a hidden gem.

What you guys do with the rosters is amazing and the game wouldn't be the same without it. I'm only hoping it gets pushed a step further.

I'll take a look at what is already in the database. Maybe it's not as bad as I think, although there is a large turnover every year. I'll let you know what I decide. Where do I go for that these days? My old TBL username was AdamOates, but I can't remember the password or associated email anymore.

[Nino-33]

USHL would probably be easier to implement, but the teams would still need to get new players from somewhere.

FYI

I took a look at the current (8.2) TBL Rosters, and looked at US Under 20 Leagues…..

In EHM players typically appear in game at/around age 14.

There are three US Leagues with an “Upper Age Limit” of 16…..the United States U16 East (with 34 teams), the United States U16 West (21 teams) and the California Amateur Hockey Association (6 teams).

Then there’s two leagues with an “Upper Age Limit” of 19…..the United States High School East and the United States High School West, each with only 1 team in them.

There are 17 different US Leagues with an “Upper Age Limit” of 20…..the USHL (22 teams) has the highest League Reputation among them, but there's also the Eastern Junior Hockey League (17 teams), the Western States Hockey League (13 teams), the Interstate Junior Hockey League (10 teams), the Central States Hockey League (8 teams), the Empire Junior B Hockey League (16 teams), the Minnesota Junior Hockey League (3 teams), the Metropolitan Junior Hockey League (9 teams) and the Northern Pacific Hockey League (10 teams).

Note - because these are currently non-playable leagues, they can be updated/corrected (leagues and teams can be added/deleted/renamed without a problem)

[RhinoHaHa]

I'm pretty sure I'm the one who added or edited a lot of those teams. Haha! I think the High School teams are mostly divided up by state now.

I haven't tested the game lately because it wouldn't work on my computer for the past 6 months, but i just got it to work last week. I want to look more at this new idea of "Add Extra Junior Players". If that's the case, they could fill up all of those miscellaneous leagues with players even though they aren't real. Then at least the USHL would have players to draft in the future, which in turn would lead to more players available to NCAA teams.

Hey, you're getting me more interested. I'll do more research.

[Nino-33]

I'm pretty sure I'm the one who added or edited a lot of those teams. Haha!

HaHa We'd love to have you back then! HaHa

I want to look more at this new idea of "Add Extra Junior Players". If that's the case, they could fill up all of those miscellaneous leagues with players even though they aren't real.

Yeah, I think there's a way of "fixing (improving) the issue" that I'm using right now with the 1998 database!

With the 1998 DB underneath all the playable leagues and the well-known "feeder" leagues and the elite leagues are.....over 13,000 players and over 6,000 staff!

I used a blank database to export the "database underneath the known database" (using the EHM Assistant to do the exporting).

That's what I'm adding to the 1998 database right now! And what's cool to me is with a bit of editing (like CA/PA and important Attributes) I can IMO quickly improve on the random underlying foundational database that the game generates.....

Something similar could be done for the modern database too!

Hey, you're getting me more interested. I'll do more research.

Cool Awesome!

[Archibalduk]

My old TBL username was AdamOates, but I can't remember the password or associated email anymore.

Your associated email address is @zoobum.com. Do you still have access to this email account? If so, I can reset your password and email a new one to you.