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Jungztar

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Posts posted by Jungztar

    Manchester City Pep Guardiola Analysis and Tactical Recreation

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Mike_Cardinal said:

    I've made a couple of tweaks to my setup with real success recently, partly inspired by Ozil-to-the-Arsenal's classic threads, including the use of Support duties for 'Very Fluid' total football.

    I also wanted to really minimise TIs, and come up with something like a universal tactic for this style of play - I tested it on FM20, but I think it could be applied to any of the recent games.

    Positive

    Much Shorter Passing, Play Out of Defence

    More Urgent

    SKd

    IWBs - CDd - CDd - IWBs

    MEZs - CMd - MEZs

    IWs - F9s - IWs

    The IWs have PIs to 'Stay Wider' and 'Get Further Forward'. And that's it!

    Here's why I think it works so well:

    The full backs, Mezzalas and wingers are on Positive mentality, the False Nine is on Balanced, and the rest on Cautious.

    I experimented with an Attack duty up front, but I do think the False Nine is perfect for this style of play. The key was playing on Positive team mentality or higher - the role is too passive otherwise, being Cautious with a Balanced team mentality.

    With a higher team mentality, I found my IWBs were getting too far forward with Underlaps - this creates an Attacking mentality, and we were being exposed on the counter.

    It also led to them sitting on top of the Mezzalas, which is completely contradictory to positional play principles. 

    I took off the Underlaps, and also found great success in moving the DM to CM, which forces the Mezzalas wider. They make runs outside more often, they press the flanks better to stop counters, and there is generally excellent spacing and interplay between them, the IWBs and IWs - I cannot recommend testing this out strongly enough.

    Without a DM, I found the Support duty worked well for the Mezzalas, rather than Attack. They helped out in defence more, so we weren't exposed in the middle, and as I increased Mentality to Positive, they still got forward plenty. I didn't want them shooting constantly on Very Attacking mentality.

    The CMd also seems to have the effect of pushing the defensive line higher, indirectly, and works really nicely supporting attacks in a line of '3' with the IWBs in possession, whilst dropping deep as a holding midfielder out of possession. I often use a 'Tighter Marking' OI on opposition AMs, which works well. 

    The IWs also benefit from a Positive mentality, as the lack of Underlaps means they get forward a little more, and form a proper front three with the False Nine - I still think this role is the best way to give Pep-style width in buildup, before attacking the box at the right moment.

    The only essential team instruction is Much Shorter Passing, genuinely. Shorter Passing gives me around 62% possession on average, Much Shorter Passing gives around 68% - it seems to prevent the CBs from ever kicking it long on Positive, and everyone focuses on neat, simple passes all over the pitch. 

    We naturally work the ball into the box - the IWBs cross less often by default, and we don't use Wingers, who Cross More Often. We are patient, but always building towards creating chances.

    This means the attacking play is varied without being over complicated and players have the freedom to score all types of goal, without being given too many instructions, or forcing the ball to a designated playmaker. Again, try it out, and I think you'll see how a very simple approach can give really effective patterns of play, as players decide how to best unlock the defence, using the overloads created by a 235.

    A truer Pep recreation may be achieved with more tinkering, but in terms of results on FM, this has given me the best results with a 235 by far, as well as some seriously beautiful football.

    I really like the thoughts behind the tactic and the "clean" setup with few TIs and well thought roles. I will test it with my Roma save! How about chance creation and goals? I struggle with getting Roma to score more - normally only winning 1-0 or drawing against better teams - so could be worried just ending up passing the ball around without scoring :)

    0

    Gian Piero Gasperini at Atalanta Case Study

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    20 hours ago, SixPointer said:

    In terms of man marking I use a mixture of opposition instructions and player instructions. With certain players given mark tight and specific players to make depending on opponent. But the back 3 all have mark tight on.  
     

    the centre forwards marking style. 
    I tell them to man mark the full backs. But in OI I highly press the centre backs to try get that split press. 
     

    the Gómez role always marks the number 6. But I tried this man marking with him and it just took away from his game he didn’t have as much space when turnovers happened 

    Thank very much for explaining your approach. I will dive into my own testing :)

    1

    4-4-2 Modern - Control and Attack Space

    in Tactics Sharing Centre (Upload/Download)

    Posted · Edited by Jungztar

    In my Dafuge LLM game I was struggeling and I decided to go 442 using many of the great ideas from this thread. The 442 i a super balanced system and works on all levels but you the players and one of my biggest lessons learned was to disregard all the young players with PA and build the team from players with solid CA (based on the lower league level). I have basically have 2 versions of the same formation which I mirror depending on the opposition. I use the scout report to identify weaknesses or the spaces to exploit and then I choose either the right or left version. My formation is based on a pressing part and a space exploiting part and I normally press the opposition creators and then exploit the spaces left by e.g. BBM or attacking fullbacks. This leads to us breaking up their attacks and launching quick counters using pass into space. If we dominate possession and are camping in their half I normally use work ball into box, cutbacks (low crosses) or deep crosses to break their defence.

    Left version

    image.thumb.png.d5a465ece9b8b97ac3a7aa06f5ff69c1.png

     

    This change resulted in a 17 match unbeaten run and we won the league and got promoted to the National League.

    image.thumb.png.9b2dfacfc409fc84e4236424e0b14f26.png

     

    1

    Tactics Gymnastics - Lyon

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    Great to see :)

    I have decided not to lock down a formation and in stead choose my formation based on the opposition and the weaknesses that I have identified. In Germany the teams mostly play 4123, 4231 and 442, so I use variants of the same but I also have a 32221 to counter the 442. I still sometimes struggle against the "park-the-bus" but against top 5 teams we hardly ever lose.

    I think the approach will be more efficient after the promotion to the Bundesliga and teams will begin coming at me and leaving me room to exploit :)

    0

    Tactical options with a limited squad?

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    I never play below Balanced in mentality and I usualy favor higher tempo - even as underdog in LLM. I know that teams will attack me and I am not going to sit back and let them! My experience is that using attacking mentality to achieve counter football has a higher output than going cautious. 

    The formation and player roles differ and I haven't found limitations. I always play using a DNA that suits my football style, i.e. workrate, teamwork, determination, natural fitness and concentration so I will find my core players based on that. I will then choose unique players for certain special roles to give me the edge in attack or built-up and they will not fit the DNA at LLM level. That could be the super quick winger or the profilic goalscorer or maybe the strong wide target man..... I can afford the risk of these special roles because I know that the core players will be able to compensate for a marauding winger that does not track back.

    I normally don't oay attention to the name of the role... I check the player instructions to determine if the role will fit my strategy and of course the sorrounding roles. It could be placing a DLP on the same side as the super quick marauding winger. The DLP will cover the area abandoned by the winger (hold position) and will also be able to play the necessary passes for the winger to exploit. 

    0

    Possession with intent: Exploring tactical flexibility with the 4-5-1.

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    @Jambo98Great to see the development in your approach. I am doing the same with my HSV save but I will need to test the RPM role because I also find the MEZ not working for me. The greatest eye-opener for me has been the effect of the wide players. HSV has a lot of AM wide naturals but they all perform very well in the MR/ML positions - they start deeper and are more involved. A player like Sonny Kittel is absolutely tearing up the opposition. I am still undecisive on the SC role and I change it a lot based on the opposition formation etc.

    I have also tried moving the playmaker role around to exploit opposition weak areas - i.e. exploiting opposition BWM or BBM roaming/closing down.... But still no conclusions from my side before I complete the season  

    0

    Possession with intent: Exploring tactical flexibility with the 4-5-1.

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    @Jambo98 Great update! I liked the IW and MEZ change and the thinking behind it. 

    When defending a lead, I normally don't lower my LOE or Dline when the AI starts coming at me..... I try to setup the defensive traps correctly (eg defend wider/narrower with high Dline) and ensure that I have the right players to win the ball and use pass into space to release quick counters. I normally remove gegenpress but keep counter, don't do overlaps etc... and around 80" I turn on max. time wasting (not too early)

    I feel that allowing the AI to enter "my territory" will always end with CCC and/or goals.  Especially the FBs or WBs must not be allowed to overload the flanks. If I can win the ball from them they leave huge gap to be exploided by a AF or IW..... So maybe changing the role of the SC in the 451 could also be an idea

    0

    Tactics Gymnastics - Lyon

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    Basically it is about finding space and exploit the weakest areas of the opponent's formation. It will not always work but if you chose the right roles and make sure they have the options around them it can be very easy to punish even the strongest teams. Even world class defenders will struggle if you overload their area and they end up playing 1v2 or even 1v3. This is not an ME exploit or wonder approach... this is actually a realistic approach going into matches with a strategy based on your scouting reports.

    2

    Tactics Gymnastics - Lyon

    in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion

    Posted

    Hi there, thank you for a great thread! I have tried implementing the approach from the OP with my own possession oriented DNA and it really works perfectly. The TF will never reach 100% but I don't see any issues in the matches. I primarily play variations of 4123 just moving the playmaker into the space to exploit but I have also used 4141 and 4231 without issues. 

    The only signs of impact from lack of TF are the odd positional mistakes especially from reserve/fringe players.... The starting XI quickly establish a good understanding and adjust to my tactical changes.

    I started using the approach when I moved to Crewe in L2 and I have only lost 2 games since taking over (approx. 30 games) transforming the team from a relegation battler to a team in hunt for promotion :)

    1
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