nully29
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Posts posted by nully29
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11 minutes ago, swansongs said:
Could definitely lose a few of the mental attributes with only minor changes to some definitions.
Yeah, like player can have 20 at both Dirtiness and Sportsmanship. I somewhat understand that those are for different situations (reckless tackles and diving respectively), but it's another example of overenginering things a bit.
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1 hour ago, XaW said:
nother point is that the stats are also used for decision making in the manager AI in the game. Without an attribute for penalty taking, how would the game know James Milner is excellent at them? His shooting is not fantastic, he is calm, but not any more than van Dijk. He is experienced, but so are most older players. No stat will tell you that he is well suited to take pens other than penalty taking, so how would the game decide that
It could be, but penalty taking attribute actually does not solely determine how good player is with penalties. It is merely one of several multipliers, along with finishing, composure, technique (?), concentration (?) and maybe strength (does it affect shot power?). Does decisions affect penalties as well? Does determination affect it if a team is losing? So whether there is or there is no attribute for penalty taking, coach still has to weigh several attributes, which makes the attribute in question somewhat redundant and probably confusing.
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31 minutes ago, herne79 said:
At the top of the forum is a link to the Online Manual. Under the "Players" section of that is a fairly long section called "An Introduction to Attributes" which provides more information about attributes than the in game tool tips do https://community.sigames.com/manual/football-manager-2021/players-r768/
It probably won't answer all of your questions but it should give you more of an understanding of the attributes and how they start to combine with each other.
This is a good read, in general, but this quote sums it up:
Every player has almost 40 visible playing attributes. They often work in conjunction with each other, either with another single attribute, or in combination with many, and the total number of combinations of attributes working in a synchronised fashion is stupendous.
Also, I believe that descriptions are generic, for example:
Anticipation
How well a player can predict and react to an event. If a player has a high attribute here, they can read the game well and react to situations more quickly than others. It also has a significant effect on a player’s awareness and whether they identify space for themselves to play in, as well as whether they react to signs of danger created by the opponent.
How anticipation really works (from what I could gather). It is the number of main loops for player to wait before he reacts to an event. For example, another player makes a pass. One main loop passes, i.e. each player makes some sort of move. Another main loop passes. Players with high anticipation realize that the pass is made and react accordingly. Players with low anticipation keep going without realizing a pass. Another main loop passes. Players with worse anticipation react to pass. Yet another main loop passes. By now even the least anticipation players see the pass and react.
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Thank you for long and detailed response. Still, it somewhat proved that SI is not very concise when it comes to attributes. Basically, SI is lumping together several multipliers for every situation. That's what I'm talking about.
8 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:Composure is the ability of a player to make good decisions with and without the ball
Isn't it Decisions? Or positioning/off the ball? Or flair? Or all of them? Don't forget to factor in pressure and important matches. I still don't get the difference between pressure and composure, except that pressure determines how player responds to media speculations (feeling pressured by interest in him).
8 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:How exactly it works only SI could tell you, because nobody knows how the programming works. As you say, it likely acts as a modifier on other attributes. But it does not matter, because this attribute tells you if a player is happy taking a penalty. Then other things will come into play. Nothing in FM works in isolation
This is exactly what I mean. Devs are just putting many multipliers together, to the point where nobody is quite sure what each multiplier does and one particular multiplier makes little difference.
8 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:Natural fitness determines how well a player stays fit, basically. High natural fitness means they stay fitter when not training, and between matches. High natural fitness will also cause players to lose their physical traits slower as they age
I thought it's professionalism. What is staying fitter anyway? Recovering condition? Could be. Match sharpness? Dunno.
8 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:Strength does not really have to correlate to natural fitness or stamina
Strength and stamina have almost no correlation (marathon runners are weak). Yet, natural fitness should correlate to both. As well, as to injury proness. And to agility. I would argue, that natural fitness is redundant. Strength, stamina, injury proness and other physical attributes combined basically give you natural fitness.
8 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:Strength is something else, it is just how strong a player is, how well they can for example muscle someone off the ball, or shield a ball from a defender
Yes, it is, but balance is also in play here. Does balance do anything except for shoulder-to-shoulder duels which are also governed by strength? Is balance another attribute that does nothing on its own, but merely multiplies other attributes in certain situations?
8 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:The tooltips really do help in understanding the difference between different attributes
They somewhat do. Yet, there are still many misunderstandings about the game. When you choose a captain, the game shows you leadership and teamwork. But never determination. Most guides talk about leadership as the most important attribute for a captain. In reality though, determination of all players goes down to determination of captain, so determination is the most important attribute for captain. And the game itself never acknowledge it.
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Let me preface it by saying that I am not new to the game and I remember how 20 years ago players had "shooting" attribute while finishing and long shots were hidden.
Still, I believe that players currently have a bit too many attributes to the point that no one really knows what exactly they do. I read guides and seems like people are just making common sense assumptions about what a particular attribute means.
Like what is "pressure"? Is it the ability to handle important game? No, there's a separate "important games" for this. Is it the ability to keep cool in important situations? But what is composure than? I for one thought that composure is about keeping cool while being pressed by a rushing opponent. Like players with low composure would make a panic clearance. However, composure is shown in a filter to select penalty shooters, so composure must be about pressure. So, if my player is taking a penalty shot, are his nerves governed by composure or pressure? If player has high pressure and low important games would he fare better than the other way around?
Speaking of penalties, what "penalty taking" attribute does? No, I am not an idiot who can't grasp that it affects player's ability to score from a spot. But what EXACTLY it does? Does it affect shot power? Or accuracy? Or player's nerves? Or his ability to send the goalie wrong way? Would player with finishing 20 and penalties 1 more likely to score than the opposite? From my experience, there's little correlation between "penalties" attribute and player's ability to convert a spot kick. I genuinely have no idea what it does, except that it's probably one of many multipliers in the dice that decides the outcome of a shot.
What is natural fitness? Player may be very injury prone yet very naturally fit. He can have strength 20 yet natural fitness 1. Does natural fitness affect how much a player recovers during the half time? Or is it governed by stamina?
Just too many attributes for nearly the same thing.
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I have had experienced the same. I started unemployed, no badges, no experience. Took a job at Wealdstone. Got fired near the end of season. Then I was applying to various low clubs and usually got rejected, as it should have been. Then out of the blue I got a news that Fulham has an opening and I should apply. I applied and got a job. Later I got fired and things got back to normal - I could only get job at Vanarama.
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Offer a trial to any player. Once he joins your club on trial, set him as a transfer target. DoF will try to sign him but fail. Always. On any player. It has nothing to do with player's demands, as if you offer a contract yourself, the player would promptly sign.
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Stuff is dumb and their advice is dumber. Yet, it's possible to play on almost automatic mode.
1. Select a working tactic, like 4231 control posession. If you want to be more realistic, hire an assistant whose favorite tactics are the ones that work in the game. Otherwise your assistant may favor catenaccio.
2. Set basically everything to assistant and your general manager, however :
3. Keep renewing contracts to yourself, this way you will get advice on changing player statuses (i.e. Demote from first team to fringe player). Once the contract is about to run up, just use "DoF negotiate renewal" button.
4. Keep confirming buys and (optionally) sells to yourself. Don't let DoF buy too many players
5. Scouting seems to be useless. DoF seems to buy players irrespective of who you scout.
6. DoF buys players for your tactics. I never saw him buying player that does not fit. When DoF makes an offer, he explains how the targeted player is about to be used, such as "operate as inside forward".
7. To make scouting relevant, you can manually ask DoF to target players who your scouts rate highly. Keep in mind, that because of the bug, DoF can't sign players on trial, he would always fail.
8. Most important : watch for potentially unhappy players, usually they are unhappy because the assistant does not play them. Assistants are poor at rotating. As soon, as you see someone getting concerned, ask DoF to sell or release them. Sometimes DoF fail to release a player, so you need to release him manually.
As long, as your tactics are good, it is possible and arguably easy to win this way.
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3 hours ago, Spanner said:
What is his leadership stat ??
17
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On 19/07/2019 at 15:17, Tyburn said:
I’ve noticed the determination drop is strongly linked to my captain. If my captain has determination of 14 for example then high determination players slowly over time seem to drop to around my captains level. Pick a high determined captain and it should make a difference.
Quoted for truth. It has worked for me.
1. Always pick the most determined guy as a captain.
2. Disregard any "guru" who suggests choosing captain based on personality, leadership or anything else.
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I have signed George Friend, who is model citizen in my save, to be mentor and leader of my young team. However, during hard matches he frequently displays frustrated, anxious or even furious body language, while the squad he is captaining remains composed and motivated. His media handling is level headed nonetheless. Don't have editor to check out his personality attributes, but apparently neither model citizen nor level headed means anything in terms of keeping cool during matches.
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SI basically needs to introduce separate instructions for "strong side" and "weak side" wide players. This is kinda basic thing for any real tactic.
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It is perfectly fine. Default settings are generally not very good.
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12 hours ago, fivetwelvepony said:
The playing time happiness thing seems to be buggy. Here is my playing time happiness from my roster page, and the playing time happiness from the happiness page. I think I believe the first. Hopefully it doesn't cause problems at some point, because i am planning on a fair bit of squad rotation this season.
o
I noticed that too. My best guess is that first one means to say how happy a player is, based strictly on expectations and matches started, and second one is how likely he is to complain about it, based on his personality, your manager reputation and all. SI is clearly using two different formulas here, but comes short in explaining what they are trying to say.
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Promoting player makes him support you more.
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Add "match load" column to your filter for selecting starting line-up. Don't start players with heavy match load.
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Does it also happen if you use a "create-a-club" option? I guess, it does. But it shouldn't.
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Tactics :
Higher defensive and engagement lines
Far post crosses
4231 (4321 would do too)
Man management:
Praise conduct
Praise / criticize training
Play those that are concerned with playing time
Don't break promises
Release unhappy players
Team talk:
Have faith
Shouts:
Demand more
That's what works and that's how you win. There may be other ways to win, but this one guarantees.
That being said, isn't whole real life just like that? I mean, people find few things that work and exploit the hell out of it. Everyone plays guitar, no one plays sitar, banjo, dobro, violin. Because guitar works. Hence 99% of musicians are playing on 1% of available instruments (guitar, bass, drums, keyboards).
Movies work. Theaters - not so much. Within movies, certain things work. 90% of movies are revolving around 10% possible themes.
Football, as commercial sport, works. Handball, softball, ping pong, water polo - not so much.
90% of population plays 10% of games (football, basketball, etc).
Coffee works. Most other beans - not so much.
99% of humans are drinking 1% of possible beans/leaves (coffee /tea).
Wheat works. Other grasses - not so much, hence mankind exploits the hell out of wheat.
I may be getting a bit too philosophical here, but real life seems to be about exploiting the hell out of few things that work (1-10% of all possible things) and almost entirely discarding everything that does not (90-99% of things) .
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"The formations main features are full backs with the attacking wingback role who will get forward and overlap and get assists and goals. The wide attacking players are inside forwards who will cut in and facilitate the wingbacks overlapping. Which ever side the ball is on, the opposing inside forward will attack the far post and score a lot of goals from the wingbacks crosses. "
Far post cross is an overpowered move, that is easy to figure out. I did it and I believe so did thousands of players. Another overpowered move is MC passes across to another MC for a shot from an arc.
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The feature makes perfect sense.
1.If you play a footballer out of position, he will not run slower or pass worse because of it. The only thing that will go down is his decision-making ability.
2.Green light in role & duty means that given player is most suited for this role and duty, relative to other roles he could perform. It is entirely possible, that another player, who is best suited for different duty may nonetheless be better at given duty, than first player. For example, I may have a bad player, whose best role is winger-attack. I also have another player, who is very good, and whose best role is AMC-AP-support. Yet, he still can be better as winger-attack, than the first player. Like, Ronaldo is not central defender at all, yet he is better central defender than me (CB is my best, bright green role).
3. Playing your first 11 in their best positions does not necessarily result in the best possible tactic for your squad. Again, it is perfectly realistic. Playing a guy in his best position vs playing him in such position that would fit the overall tactic best - is one of the most fundamental decisions real coaches have to make about tactics. If new players can't tell the difference between playing guys in their best position and designing the best tactics, they probably need to educate themselves about football in general, rather than this particular game.
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3 hours ago, teknotel said:
For me personally yes the game is waaay too easy. Once you understand the formula you can win anything with any club.
I just won Champions league with Barnet in 9 seasons from conference. I feel like I could do this with any team, though I only usually play English league so maybe its a lot harder in a poorer league etc..
It's pretty easy to tell how good a player is based on their stats and personality. I scout thoroughly and use search filters to find players suitable for my tactic and man manage the players well to get the best out of them.
I have been thinking a lot I would like a mode where stats are not visible, so its more like real life where you just have to watch people play to get an idea of how good they are. You will have to depend on you scouts and analysts a lot more etc. I think it would be fun for people like me who love the game but literally have no challenge at all in it any more.
I believe I have seen an article by Cleon81 where he played with such mode. Unfortunately, it seems like he had deleted his site and all the content. Such mode - it is actually a skin - does exist nonetheless.
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4231 is basically an auto win in FM20.
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Since two most overpowered tools are tactics and transfers, I sometimes make saves with rules as following :
1. Use a preset vanilla tactic and don't change it at all. (in some saves I let it change according to assistant 's advice). I focus on squad building and want to have an even field with AI.
2. Whenever I want to buy a player, I add him as a transfer target and let DoF buy him. If DoF fails so be it. DoF fails surprisingly often. Particularly, DoF always fails to sign a player, who is currently on trial with you. It might be a bug, but I live with it.
Apparently, you can still be fairly successful with those rules. For what it worth, if you start with Kidderminster, in the first season they win the vanarama north league with preset 4231 control possession and no signings. Even though media prediction is abouth 16th and board expectations are like mid table. Player interactions are key (as long, as tactics and transfers are nerfed).
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Do players have too many attributes?
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted · Edited by nully29
I believe you are correct. However, it results in a player with Iron Willed personality, who has low composure and hence fails at critical moments of the game because he can't keep his cool.