[Highest income league?]

I believe it's somewhere from 100 million pounds to 150m depending on your league position and how often are your matches broadcasted on international tv, but add on all that the sponsorships, prize money and other incomes and it gets really huge

[Highest income league?]

9 minutes ago, Dreambuilder said:

Which league has the highest overall income from prize-, TV-money and sponsors etc? I see in the rules that the German Bundesliga has alot higher prize money than the English Premier League. Do EPL on the other hand have higher TV-money than the Bundesliga? I am asking because I want to take a lower league club to the absolute top club money.. Thanks.

Premier league for sure. Income from tv rights is huge, and you can see that epl is probably the only league in the game where a bottom team could sign a player for 40m or more

[Too few goals]

After finishing the season, i've found that goals really are scored by the offensive players regularly, but there is a problem with teams packed with quality, as if me can't decide who will be the scorer without compromising the scoreline (or to say, more goals being scored), so results for top teams are mostly 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, i guess to keep in line with the goals being scored overall. Regarding the bigger picture, number of goals is statistic wise on a global level just as expected, but i think the top players are suffering because of that limitation, and teams that relly on 1 or 2 attacking above average options, score the normal numbers. 

Finished season numbers:

Premier league season goals: 1065 (38 games)

La liga: 1029 (38 games)

Bundesliga: 871 (34 games)

Serie A: 850 (unexpected lower, 38 games)

Ligue 1: 1010 (38 games)

Serbian Superleague: 820 (37 games, also lower than expected)

I also found no direct difference in regards to AI small team/big team scorers, but from my research i think there is a problem with attributes measuring hitting against some of the limits, such as goals scored.

 

[Too few goals]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

This area is being worked on and tweaked as we speak to get them in line with real life statistics. Records show that on average there are roughly between 2.5-3 goals per game over a season, so this is the range we're looking at with the correct proportion going to attacking players. Thanks. 

Thanks, i only hope this statistic is not hard set in stone, and that there could be some variations, i've seen the average goals for major leagues and they are pretty consistent around 2.5 to 3.0 (bundesliga being an only exception with 3.28 or so last season). I'm just hoping that season averages don't hard limit how good your team players can perform, especially if there is a drastic difference in quality (for example, i develop 2 190ca strikers in a 110ca league and they struggle to perform on that level and hit the limits  around 25-30 goals just like 140-150ca players because of season averages). I know it's not directly tied with ca, but i'm just indicating quality of the players.

I'm gonna post more (i hope constructive) data soon regarding numbers of goals scored by ai against top teams and smaller teams

[What kind of data does SI need]

3 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

 

Hope that makes things a little bit clearer from our perspective. 

Thanks for a lot for a very fast reply, yeah it does. I'd be very happy to help in any way possible, as i'm sure a lot of people would because we all want a great FM. I can understand that ME team is very busy indeed, and i don't expect a fix over night, but it's good to know that some things were already fixed and acknowledged, and that these threads are seen by the qa or dev team.

About the communication part, i could suggest that mods can be the middle link between dev/qa team, and forum users around here, i think it would save a lot of time and energy if the mods could tell in which direction we are heading or what is a priority at the moment, and what to focus on to help.

Thanks again

[What kind of data does SI need]

1 minute ago, Britrock said:

If it's ME issues, they want pkm's with timestamps of the issues that you're seeing. If it's overall game issues, they'll want savegames with examples. Each of the bug forums generally have stickies on how to report issues:

 

I've been posting data in a beta match engine bug subforum, i can understand that there maybe wasn't time for everything to be looked at, but on the other hand, there is a number of unanswered threads in match engine bug forums that have been there for months, what should these people do? Plus i can see that there are some threads that were adressed instantly and others not at all, i don't know the reasons for this selectivity, and i would like to know, even if it's extremely negative, i can live with that.

[What kind of data does SI need]

As written by one mod and i quote from the feedback thread about updating the beta:

"That depends on how happy they would be with internal changes, level of initial feedback and ease of changes. I've mentioned it before but there isn't huge amount of feedback both here and in the public beta thread. For those in the public beta, this is your time to have your influence. "

What kind of feedback, data is needed for us both to go forward and make a overall better FM, what kind of data will the SI look at, how can community really help. What do we need to do to have an updated beta until the final patch comes through, or to have a response to raised bugs and know that they are worked on, how to have our influence, how much are they happy with internal changes?

I'd like for this to be a constructive thread, not venting one, where we could at least be directed as to what is going on.

My arguments for this:

Game was released in november last year, match engine is a continuation from the last year, that was continuation of the me year before that, people are using their own free time to try and help fix faults for a product they have paid for as a complete, testing it 3 months from release in open beta with very little feedback from the team, and we don't know what the team that is getting paid for, is doing, or what are they looking at, or what is the roadmap, or what do they need so they can do it better. 

I just don't want my hope to be toyed with as i'm already unhappy with the product that i've bought and that i'm really trying on my part to make it better as a customer. It's not a problem if Si say the number of goals scored by top strikers in dominant teams is not a current concern or priority, or who scores them against who. I can move on and drop it, play older versions of fm as that is immersion breaking for me, and as i can see, for a lot of people.

Pretty please, don't toy with people's hope, that would be the only reason why i would stop supporting the developers in the future.

 

 

[What's the highest transfer fee you've ever received for a defender/keeper?]

I'm having no problems selling my players that are performing over 7.00, neither did i have in fm19. You should keep an eye on their wages tho, as lower wages make other teams more interested. Had no problems selling my keepers in 19 for well over 60mil (Rajkovic), and even 80mil (some argentinian regen), defenders are even easier to sell as they can perform well over 7.00, i've been managing to sell them for over 100mil to english, spanish and french teams.

They have to play constantly, have good ratings, have good reputation, have good ability, and then if they bid for their value or +10%  you can negotiate for much much more than they are offering. That +10% is just a starting offer, if they refuse, well, that's no problem, i won't sell him for that.

Edit: If that is not good enough, you can change transfer values for nations in the editor

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

2 minutes ago, dBianchin said:

i'm using simpathyforthedevil in the beta and is working like a charm, only exception for the two strikers, can't make them work. Now i'm trying to tweak to change that. The defence is very reliable.

Maybe they are cut out too much (besides the usual beta engine problems), i'd recommend to try them as CFs(s) or CFs(a)

[FM memes thread]

7 minutes ago, Gross_Ballon said:

This did make me laugh but got love for the mods ! 

Apsolutely, point of memes is exactly to exaggerate

[[Beta v2031] Looking for help with my newly promoted squad]

I'd recommend the following in beta:

Change dlp to s duty, bwm to bbm, left winger on attack, right winger on attack, left back iwb but keep him left footed, right back also iwb and right footed, both put on automatic, both strikers as af, for ti defensive line on higher, line of engagement on much higher or higher, defensive width all the way to the left on narrow, slightly shorter passing, counter and much higher pressing intensity, remove hit early crosses as they are ineffective, but check cross from the byline for iwb's, and most important, set mentality to cautious, if you are loosing go for attacking instantly, also higher tempo all the time and overlaping on both flanks. It all may and will seem contraintuitive given you are managing a inferior team in epl, but judging by those statistics, your team seems to be too stationary and conservative, not looking to exploit the open opposition. You need the goals, and the more you attack, less will the opposition. Let me know how it goes if you try this for a game or two.

[Knap - FM24 and FM23 FM22_FM 21 - FM 20 -FM 19 Tactic List]

I've found Venom&Faith442 p100 to also be okay in the beta, about the same as Beowulf p107, but Venom&Faith p100 is showing to be pretty solid against same level teams and stronger teams also. All round tactic for now. Tried to tweak it little by little, as i tend to do with all knap tactics over the years to try to make them even more efficent, no luck tho. Two CF(s) seem to be working weird, you can score more goals, but also for some reason concede more than with 2 AF's

[FM memes thread]

[Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread]

5 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Just to clarify this point- you first posted on this issue on Monday and this is Tuesday- your input and posts are appreciated, but this is hardly a time frame for you to be complaining about receiving zero reception.

To add to this, there were posts made much later than that one and had si response, and i feel like it has been ignored for i don't even know what reasons,  just like those threads in official bug forum that had been standing unanswered in months and that have been burried.

[Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread]

18 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Tbf, every time Neil tries to post any kind of update in here, a bunch of users will take it upon themselves to batter him, and the happened when they started an ME updates thread, had to be locked. To get that engagement, you've to have that arena to do it. Even today, recommending people use the beta as way to engage sets people off. It's not for nothing we say the more toxic the forums get the less devs engage. It goes both ways. You need more chat coming from SI, but you also need better reception from users. Without the two, it doesn't work, as we've seen since November

All i can see is zero reception by any si staff to any info i provided on beta match engine thread about lack of goals, and i've spent quite a lot of my time today to find information. I don't even know the direction in which should i go to prove it, or are they even looking at it. From that personal perspective, i can understand why people don't want to do it and are getting frustrated

[Too few goals]

Real life statistics for 2019/20

Bundesliga: 18 games played

Timo Werner 20 goals, 1515 mins played, 76min per goal, Levandowski 20 goals, 1592 mins played, 80m/g, Rouwen Hennings 11 goals, 1429mins played, 130m/g. After that there is a lot of players of similar stats to Rouwen, about 10 goals, Sancho 10 goals, 10 assists in 1500 mins played

Epl: 23 games played

Vardy 17, Aguero 15 (only 1088 mins played), Rashford 14, Ings 14, Aubameyang 14, Abraham 13, Mane 11, Sane 11, Kane 11, Sterling 11, Jimenez 10, Pukki 10

France: 20 games played

Ben Yedder 14 goals, 1460mins played, Mbappe 13 goals (but only 990 mins played), Neymar 11 goals (only 1050 mins), then come Dembele, Diallo with 10 goals and over 1600mins played, Icardi 9 goals (899 mins played)

Spain: 20 games played

Messi 14 goals, 1260 mins played, 90m/g, Benzema 12 goals 1593 mp, 133m/g, Suarez 11 goals 1270mp, 116m/g. After that come players that are playing for non-top spanish clubs that are needing more minutes to score a goal, so they are sub 10, but overall, it's been a weird season in spain

Italy: 20 games played

Immobile 23 goals, 1568 mp, 68 m/g, CR7 16 goals, 1493mp, 93m/g, Lukaku 14 goals, 1705mp, 122m/g, Joao Pedro 13 goals, 1800mp, 138m/g, Ilicic 10 goals, 1099mins, 110m/g, Martinez 10, similar to Ilicic, Muriel 10 goals, 870mp, 87m/g

I think that we can draw the next conclusion, and i would be glad if someone could follow me up on this:

Teams that play attacking football tend to score more goals, and their strikers also tend to score more goals regardless of oppositions intent to stop them and limit their space simply because they have better offensive quality. You can clearly see that these statistics are dominated by players that play in dominating teams and play attacking football.

[Too few goals]

30th april data of the almost complete season. As you can see, it's awfully unrealistic and wrong compared to real life stats

Anyone from to SI to acknowledge it as a problem?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread]

2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This. Otherwise, what's the point in even having a public beta if the public don't want to get involved? They might as well can it at that rate. 

There is probably a reason for that, and that reasons are stated here, raised at the public beta subforum (lack of goals, lack of central play, too effective defending and bus parking, tripping over the ball, high number of tackles, card problems, repetitive ME, unbalance of attributes), and most people that took their time to actually post feedback stopped playing fm because of these things, including me. So instead of playing the game, i've collected real world data about who and against who is scoring how much, highlighted the problem in the public beta and compared it to fm stats, and i wasn't the only one to do that, so it's not a singular problem. It shouldn't take a lot to sim one season, see the scorers and acknowledge the problem, see that these things are systematic problems and that are connected with teams sitting deep effective regardless of quality. I can't do much other than that, nor do i have the resources, and there isn't even a mark on that thread that it is under review, or that it needs more info. Blaming the customers for obvious things that have been reported not only on fm20 beta, not only on fm20, and that don't have the resources and are volunteering, doing SI job that should have been done in november is not a good move. If SI need any info, they can also ask for data, make their own threads, asking people to submit their data, but no, that isn't happening.

[Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread]

36 minutes ago, glosoli said:

Any idea when will it come out of beta?

I'm hoping that they can keep updating public beta by making little tweaks until march so they can get feedback about problems and solve them on the go until then. It would probably be an overall better product by march.

[Too few goals]

I've posted the previous calendar years top goalscorers (only league games), and there you can see a trend-

-Most goals are scored by players great by their league standards.

-These players play in dominant, attacking teams, not average teams.

-These players have a ratio of about 0.75 to 1.25 goals per game, Messi being an exception for year 2012 i think, where he got almost 1.6, but it happens in other lesser leagues where player quality compared to league quality is drastic

Fm observations:

Top players in top teams struggle because of opposition reducing space regardless of quality

Mediocre or above average players playing for mediocre teams have no such problems and hit realistic numbers that are in line or even above top players because opposition isn't reducing space, thus working as intended by ME

 

 

[Too few goals]

48 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Well, now.  Since I have been accused in here of being a fanboy ( first time for a very long time ) and being despicable and part of the problem, I would like to have the right of reply.

1. Nowhere in my post did I say that there was or wasn't an issue with the number of goals scored.

2. All I advised what the method that SI use to check the numbers of goals score in their soak tests.

3. I suggested that it would be better to draw major conclusions about the numbers of goals scored after a full season rather than 13 games.

So, how did these points, reasonably put in 2 sentences, manage to elicit such vitriol?

That wasn't my point at all, i'm sorry if it was misunderstood. All i was trying to say is that there is a problem with number of goals scored, and more so, by who and when it was scored. It is now the 1st of May, and highest scorer in all 5 major leagues has 22 goals (german budnesliga), and mbappe following him at 20 goals. Mane is at 14, and Salah around 10. On the other hand, i'm using the best tested knap tactics, have 170ca striker who is consistent in a around 110ca league and he scored 24 in league in 33 games. Compared to fm 11 to now (every version that i owned), it seems to be statistical maximum and really low that such a player (also with vastly superior teammates) can't score against vastly inferior teams, while players that are average, have average teammates, score a little bit less (next player in league is from a team that just got promoted, has 21 goals) only because he has space to do so. I'm all for him scoring 21 really, but i feel strongly my players underperform for their ability, and other high ability players also statistically underperform because of that.

[Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread]

1 minute ago, bleventozturk said:

Fully agree. I only wish that it happened even more, but most gamers would probably hate the game for being too hard. Irl very few managers have the luxury to work with boards that are as patient as those in the game. More often than not, even following 1 very successful season, if they don't start the second season well, the talks of bringing in a new manager starts immediately. This is even worse in some leagues, where managers who take over a struggling side mid-season get the sack after only 5-10 matches and can't even finish that half season. Happens in Turkish league several times a year

 

Yeah, just what i want after a hard day, not having a damn clue what is going on and being more frustrated than I already am with a game for not finding any consistency. Might as well make a requirement that you have to have a real continental pro license to be able to start a match. If you want the grim reality of being a manager, you can try that in real life. In my case, i want to build my team, find a tactic that i don't have to meddle with too much and which gives the results that i want, deal on the market, build my story and develop top players, make the greatest team and obliterate teams. Getting sacked in this fm is not a problem, destroying other much weaker teams constantly so your offensive players can get the statistics they should be having due to ability difference, not so much, given the effectivness of bus parking. 

[[Discussion] Sandbox ME]

As this game is striving to be a simulation, but given the theme, it can never be fully realistically simulated, just like the managers that are constantly trying to have that "perfect game", but never manage to have it, as there is no such thing as a objective perfect game of football, a lot of it is of course subjective. That is most of the time the problem with ME, you just can't please everyone however you approach it and make it, and for a game, it's objective is for you to enjoy it. I think a lot of problems with all the fm frustration could be eased with options regarding the me, allowing you to customise your world of football and reality. For example, if you feel the there is a lack of goals in your game world, you could change it (or at least at the start of the game) and set it up to for example 1.2 number of goals modifier, or 2.0 if you like, same could be done with other aspects of me, such modifying the significance of attributes (such as pace, acc, finishing, tackling), or changing the style of the game i.e. effectivness of crossing, dribling, longshots, tackling. I think it would throw a huge burden of the chest both for people working on the me, and people playing the game. I think this is possible mostly because it's a statistic driven game that takes in all these calculations, and being able to manipulate those parameters would make everyone a bit happier, and that would be a huge step forward for the franchise.

[Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread]

Although win ratio is great and realistic in beta, there's a problem with effectivness of top team strikers and offensive players. Strikers score regularly more against big teams than against small teams who park the bus where they can't score because parking the bus and limiting space is so effective when measured against offensive attributes. Consequence is that average teams that have average strikers have their strikers scoring the same numbers as top quality strikers. I think i'm done with fm for now until there's a patch that actually makes me motivated to have the best possible players. Yes, i want my Messi-like regen to be able to be utilised in such a way that he can tear apart my tank parking opposition regardless of how they set up and score 50+ goals, especially if opposition are serbian superleague level (or about league one), and not any pep guardiola or mourinho reincarnate would be able to stop the team packed with players of this quality regardless of how they stack the bus with that less quality. Same as i can only applaud when irl teams without messi (Bayern and Totenham) dismantle my Red Star team (which is a top club in my country) in champions league 6-0 or 5-0) regardless of our couch trying to reduce space. In fm, all i have to do is bunker up and win against these teams 1-0 or have an easy draw, or eventually lose 1-0, but in the process making Levandowski look like amateur bystander that was asked 15 minutes before the match to join in on a relaxing street football fun in comparison to my average defenders that have 10 pace and acc.

[Too few goals]

About the same number of goals scored in my save after 30 games in all 5 major leagues. Spain 19, 14, 13 (and that being Stiven Plaza, Santi Mina and Sergi Guardiola, 2 for valladolid and Mina for celta vigo), England 20, 17, 14 (Mbappe for City, Wilson, Mane), Italy 15, 14, 13 (Morelos, Piatek, Depay), France 16, 14, 14 (some regen for amiens, Okereke for rennes, ivanusec for monaco)

My observations are that top teams are struggling to make their strikers score almost irrelevant of their attributes, because weaker teams can easily render them ineffective by reducing space, and lower quality strikers get plenty of space and score normal numbers. Having a team packed with quality and high reputation will then result in lot of players not being able to shine just because opposition parked the bus irrelevant of their attributes and that is really immersion breaking for me because it's limiting to how much and by what i can judge my players performance, and i can't judge them on ME limitations. Please balance the effectivness of space reducing, it can be effective when the quality of teams is similar, (so strikers score less againsts big teams, and more against smaller teams, and in fm, because of all important space based engine, strikers score more against big teams that are playing open, than against smaller teams. Problem is that the quality of players isn't nicely balanced in this mix of space focused ME.