Maldini's Heir
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Posts posted by Maldini's Heir
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22 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:
I should add too my winger is top scorer not because of some failure of the ME but by tactical design.
He has certain PPMs and my Targetman is on support. So he drops deep and creates space for the winger to run into.
My shadow striker has 11 in 20 mainly from cut backs from that winger.
The ME has issues this is undeniable. BUT I think the issues around strikers and scoring goals are tactical. The AI is too cautious and the human play is to gừng họ.
But if the issue was tactical, then my team wouldn’t be creating chances. My team is creating chances but my players keep missing them all.
I’ve got Piatek and Cavani as strikers. My team is handing them chance after chance and they just keep missing. So how do I fix that tactically?
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40 minutes ago, wazzaflow10 said:
I have to get this off my chest...
I've never seen so many shots go straight to the keeper from point blank range. They wander offsides on freekicks from the defensive half repeatedly. And can't head the ball towards goal to save their life. I just don't understand what I'm supposed to do anymore in the game.
Same.
I cannot keep creating and missing more chances than my opponent.
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On 04/01/2020 at 04:59, victorpetroll said:
My impressions:
I played 90 hours until. Most of the time only served to make me angry and frustrated.
I left my best experience in all FM's (Girona in FM 19) to have a terrible experience.
The gameplay is horrible. Two months after launch, Match Engine continues to have the same problems as it did at the beginning and no one can predict improvements. Things in the game are always repetitive and everything seems to depend on your luck (which always fails). Penalty shoot-out is unsuccessful; long balls pursue their defense regardless of the quality of the players and their tactics; Your attacker can have great attributes (17+) and yet will lose dozens of clear chances before scoring; the game seems to laugh at your tactical changes and keeps punishing you no matter what you change.
If I had known this would be so bad I would have continued on FM 19 and would consider buying the game only in March. After all, it seems that this is what we who bought the game at the launch deserve: suffering and anger.
Sorry for my bad english.
I've arrived at the same place and I'm out. I can't do this anymore. Back to FM19. Which in fairness means I get to keep Cutrone at Milan!
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13 hours ago, Svenc said:
Bit harsh, but probably true.
This is nothing personal, but I don't think any ME patch will solve this.
A different studio coding a highly determinstic game may. Paradox Interactive had hinted at that at some point they may make a management game (tried to aquire SI, but it was too late). But then that will be quite some detached from football. Press x for goal/event isn't football (even on Fifa / PES there are random elements on occasion overriding the run of play, apparently to the dismay of many). Plus football management is a highly frustrating job due to footballs inherent nature, and the pressure put on managers. Given the perennial overachievements, there's got to be at least some of it in there.
That would be more Burnley'sque if they had recorded a record of shots blocked, rather than fouls (and won the match 1-0).
This may actually be a good example to report and investigate to how the (too many?) set pieces on FM come about (and the shots off them). In this case, the inevitable free kicks after the fouls...
It’s just the runs of bad luck that get me.
3 or 4 games in a row where I’m hitting the post or the ball is running along the line is just to much for me.
I can’t manage bad luck. I know it happens in real life. But four Gerard slips in a row is enough to make me blow my top.
I’m out of the cup, the champions league and lost my lead in the league due to a run a bad luck. I lost on penalties in the cup, hit the post numerous times against Atletico Madrid, got smashed by Lazio (which I didn’t think was unlucky until the interviewer asked me about all of those missed chances!) and then finally played Fiorentina and missed numerous chances, only to lose 1:0. So I lost it and re-played the Fiorentina game and won 4:0. Exact same tactics and team talk. Just better luck.
I just need a break from the bad luck. It’s too much.
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21 minutes ago, Svenc said:
Any shot is a chance -- the Question is how big it may be.
The game has specific stats for "chances", though indeed they are quite rubbish. If your main issue are the Long balls/one on oneish, then there is hope for you after a patch. If not, probably not.
The 1v1 thing is one of my main issues.
But I think the overall issue is just the lack of joy in the game.
I’m winning games but they’re an absolute chore. That Chievo game could’ve been a nice enjoyable dominant win but again it was another chore.
Just beaten Arsenal 3:0 overturning a 2:0 first leg. And then came crashing down to earth losing to Lazio 3:0. Even though I only had 4 chances and they had 11, I got asked about all of my missed chances. The game seems to just want to wind me up all of the time.
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52 minutes ago, Svenc said:
That's not chances, that's shots. Aside of the Long balls, SI should watch those set piece defending in particular to get the numbers some down -- those headers don't result in a goal that regularly anyway (or they should increase their conversion slightly). What was the other match you reloaded like? Plus do you also reload if your Competition Drops the Points?
Speaking of that Atalanta match, anybody who can Show me an FM match with 35 shots from genuinelly open Play as opposed to a set piece wins a very Special Price. Anyone?
https://1xbet.whoscored.com/Matches/1317965/MatchReport/Italy-Serie-A-2018-2019-Atalanta-EmpoliThat’s not chances?
Well that’s just rubbish.
How can a stat based game not accurately describe one of the most basic stats.
Anyway in these games I’m also treated to highlights of players missing endless chances.
There are no rules to re-starting matches. It’s borne out of frustration. Re-starting makes the frustration go away. I won’t get through seasons if I penalise myself for re-starts. It already caused me to re-start careers when I felt guilty about re-starts. Now I just accept it’s part of a flawed experience with a flawed game.
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41 minutes ago, Svenc said:
Yeah, because Football matches would all end the same if they are re-played, given that this is a Sports of 90 minutes, but pitifully key seconds, often quite random, settling the Outcome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_European_Cup_Final Considering that the game likewise sims 90 minutes full, pitifully key seconds deciding the outcome, it would be concerning if all reloads ended on the same score. It'd mean the game were deterministic, which football isn't . That's why people flock the stands in severe mismatches. Over any one match-up, literally anything goes. As an isolated contest to determine which side was de facto the better of the two, football matches are hopeless. Compared to say tennis, there are far too few points scored.
You may still prefer a deterministic experience. If you restarted say 15-20 times and didn't see a tendency, you may have a Point though.... As argued, a match you actually lost by bad luck you should in tendency win on the next reload immediately. Perfectly logical. One you didn't may be a more tricky affair. And over dozen+ reloads there should be a trend really.Interestingly, the game is already set up in a way that makes it less random than football. In parts this has to do with the limited AI mind, which can't "read a match" and simply cycles through the gears. In actual football, managers see eye to eye. On FM, that would only be the case in an online experience, e.g. FM Live back then, which SI themselves were fully aware of was an altogether different beast. In parts this has to do with that it doesn't simulate the more severe finishing streaks though to me, not even once in hundreds of simulations e.g. even CR7, Ibrahimovic et all on the occasion barely scoring for months in the league, despite having umpteenth attempts to do so, just as much as ever.
That said, I think the current one on one / long ball issue in particular adds some unnecessary level of perceived randomness on top.I’m a firm believer in luck. In fact it’s probably the closest thing I have to religion.
I believe luck determines most of our lives. Depending on how far you want to go back; if you start at the Big Bang then the probability of us having this conversation right now must be vanishingly small. The only way to explain it is that since the universe is everything, it’s every possibility, including the possibility of us having this conversation right now.
A key part of the luck doctrine is to identify the elements in your life you control and the elements you don’t. This is important. Sometimes very successful people don’t appreciate the luck they have had. Sometimes very unfortunate people blame themselves for bad luck. Equally we shouldn’t ignore the small part that judgment and skill played in a person’s success or failures.
So I get all that. And still I consider that it’s unacceptable for me to constantly be bombarded with bad luck in this game.
I’m top of table (I’ve only re-started two games all season) and just managed to beat 10 men Chievo 1:0 with a last minute goal after my team missed 37 chances. Now normally last minute winners are punching the air moments. But here it was just frustration. Had I not won I was seriously thinking of re-starting because it’s unacceptable for a team to miss 37 chances. That’s not bad luck. That’s just nonsense.
At least restrict my team to 20 missed chances. That would have some connection to reality.
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24 minutes ago, Maldini's Heir said:
It doesn’t make any sense because the goal was scored just after I’d told my players to attack down the left. So the defence wouldn’t have readjusted by that stage.
Frankly I’ve come to accept the fact that I’m like my old geography teacher who has given up trying to teach because my students don’t listen to me.
It’s very fulfilling.
I keep my instructions to a minimal. That was one for the first time’s I tried something a little different and was left throughly unfulfilled. I’ll go back to reading my book while my team carries on without me.
Here’s a good one.
I tell my players not to close down the CBs and to man mark the DM. This way they can put all of the pressure on the DM.
What happens?
You guessed it. They close down the CB leaving DM free who sets up a goal.
I won the game 3:1 thanks to three goals from my team which were mostly unrelated to my tactics.
Carry on class. I’ll keep reading my book.
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1 hour ago, auhsoj said:
That makes complete sense though.
You attack down the left, meaning your opponents with 10 men have to react to that by shifting their collective defensive shape further to the left. That would then create room on the right hand side of the pitch.
And, as @CFuller says, a football team doesn't follow the instructions given by their manager 100% of the time: that'd be absurd. It simply would disallow any creativity from that team.
It doesn’t make any sense because the goal was scored just after I’d told my players to attack down the left. So the defence wouldn’t have readjusted by that stage.
Frankly I’ve come to accept the fact that I’m like my old geography teacher who has given up trying to teach because my students don’t listen to me.
It’s very fulfilling.
I keep my instructions to a minimal. That was one for the first time’s I tried something a little different and was left throughly unfulfilled. I’ll go back to reading my book while my team carries on without me.
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2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:
This has been explained to you a thousand times now.
It's almost as if you have absolutely no understanding of how real football works.
I play real football. It doesn’t have a very limited set of tactical instructions and team talk options......
I think despite it being 2020 we’ve unfortunately not quite arrived at a place where we’ve managed to recreate real football in a computer game. So we can probably leave the “this is how real football works” comments out.
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4 hours ago, bcereus said:
Player instructions seem to mean absolutely nothing in this game. The engine decides what it wants to do regardless of what you tell the players.
This ends up feeling like you have no control, I swear every iteration of this game just seems to take away more and more player control and also variety.
I honestly believe their match engine works fine if you just accept that you have like 20% control over player instructions and the rest is the match engine deciding to fulfill some overral season stats.
It's incredibly frustrating and what worries me more is that they don't have any issues with how it currently works. Before players pressured them into trying to fix the over the top balls from CBs, there were many comments from them saying it was working fine.
They seem to just use stats to look at the stats of a season rather than how the chances are being created.
Stop adding unnecessary features every year and dedicate that time to the most important part of the game, the thing that directly affects player enjoyment. Your other features don't matter if the player doesn't enjoy watching his team.
Completely agree.
This where the game fails to bring joy. This is a management game, so your only inputs to the game are as manager e.g. selecting the right players and tactics.
For there to be joy in this game, your decisions need to mean something.
Like when the other team went down to 10 men and didn’t have a right winger. I concentrated my attacks down the left and then scored from the right.
That goal was joyless because it was the opposite of what I’d told my players to do.Had my team scored down the left, that might have caused me a brief moment of joy.
That’s all I ask for. Joy.
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11 hours ago, Svenc said:
Unfortunately, reloading until you luck out also isn't quite the superior learning experience.
I love a good re-start.
I especially love how you can get a completely different result with the exact same team, tactics and team talk. As if none of those things make the slightest difference.
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11 hours ago, CFuller said:
If playing a video game gives you even the slightest urge to smash your computer against the wall, maybe you should stop playing it.
It was a joke.
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11 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:
And? Encouraging your players to play down a certain side doesn't mean they will never attack down the other side. Your issue seems to be that you think instructions are binary. Team and player instructions are suggestions, and the players (depending on a number of factors) will attempt to adhere to them where possible. However, there are so many variables involved, it's never going to be an exact science, and neither it should be.
This, along with your constant reloading until you win makes me feel as though this game really isn't for you.
All I’m looking for is an acknowledgment. Just something to say: that was you, your tactics did that.
I can’t claim much credit for my players hitting endless, inch perfect balls over the top since I’ve specifically told them to play short passes and to have a slow build up.
In fact I take very credit for anything of the good things my team does in this game so I should definitely not take the blame for the bad.
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Do tactics play any role in this game?
I have set up all my deep free kicks so have all my defenders back and for the free kicks to be taken short but I don’t think I’ve seen a single short free kick.
I’ve set up my team to play Cautious, Short Passes, with Work the Ball into the box and yet my team constantly hits balls over the top for my strikers to miss 1v1s.
Throw ins are set for quick ones and I take long ones.
As for Team Talks: “don’t get complacent“ means “get complacent”; and “they might be down to ten men but don’t let your levels drop” means “hit the post 3 times and concede a last minute goal” (Are they sponsored by Apple? Do they want me to smash my computer against the wall?).
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1 hour ago, Mitja said:
Yeah how many people actually have plan b or c? And I mean fluid tactical alternative. Jugding by posts in tactical forum those three tactical slots are never even mentioned. Its all about one tactics. Compare that to AI which will use all mentalities and thus different tactics sometimes even in single game. It maybe games response to where is yours tactical flexibility?
Me. I have a plan A, B and C but find myself spending most games playing a defensive formation lest I dare leave my CBs exposed for the inevitable ball over the top.
I’m winning tittles and wouldn’t mind losing or drawing more games. My issue is the manner of it.
The hilarious thing (as in ha ha, you had to be there) when they got a man sent off they had no right winger so I concentrated my attacks down the left......and guess what?I attacked down the right and scored!
And then conceded a goal in the last minute. Just cause.
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1 hour ago, CFuller said:
I'm sorry, but if your team routinely falters against 10 men, then that is more likely to be YOUR problem than the game's.
How do you react when the opposition has a player sent off? Do you look to control the game with your extra man and exploit any space the opposition leave (as Svenc suggests you should)? Or do you just throw players into attack against a team whose best hope is to sit back and then try to strike on the counter?
I'm not straight up saying, "It's your tactics." I'm just saying, "This might be one for the tactics forum."
Hitting the post 3 times is my problem as well.
And re-starting the game remarkably made the problem go away.
I wish all problems were like that.
I’m winning titles. Just thoroughly not enjoying myself in the process.
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Why do I want to play game where every time the other team goes down to ten men, my team concedes a last minute equaliser?
A last minute equaliser which followed a last minute equaliser a few matches ago?
Last minute equalisers which have cost me the title?
Just cause'.My team has the best defensive record in the league. But the last thing I want to do is play against 10 men. It's fine. I've re-started because I have decided it's your mistake not mine. And miraculously after my re-start my team is suddenly capable of seeing out the match against 11 men this time. Everyone knows - 10 men always have the advantage.
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Feedback. Can the game just bring the smallest little bit of joy to our lives?
Does everything have to go against the player?
Does it have to be endless frustrations."Oh that was unlucky. I hit the post again. If it wasn't so predictable I'd be more disappointed".
So what's the deal?
Cause us to become frustrated so we do something radical with our tactics or shout at our players?
Is that the game we're playing?
Keep your cool while the game winds you up endlessly so that when you do win it's bit meh....3 seasons in and I haven't punch the air yet. We need more joy in this game. It's supposed to be fun. Life is frustrating. Games are supposed to be escapism.
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This has been a problem for years but CBs and DMs should not be the players who should be getting tired easily, It should be the attackers particularly if you play with one striker. Strikers get rotated all of the time. Defenders less so (although I accept that's more of a thing these days). But still CBs and DMs don't run as much and shouldn't constantly be getting jaded while my striker is like some 11 year old.
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This game is pure simulated frustration.
The frustration is all one way. Last minute goals conceded, endless missed chances, players giving the ball away in the most unlikely circumstances, my keeper getting tackled after he held onto the ball for it seems like an age. I never get to experience these things. It's only my players who make endless mistakes or who have all the bad luck.
It's boring. 3:2 up, I know there's going to be a last minute dramatic equaliser. If I'm a goal down the clock will just run down without incident. There's no chance of me getting a last minute goals. That would bring joy. And these is a joyless game. It's simulated frustration.
I am well ahead of my targets. I won the title in my second season. I'm not going to win the title this but I'm comfortably in the Champions League.
The issue is not the defeats. It's the manner of the defeats. When my players make endless mistakes then I cannot pinpoint a tactical issue. What tactic tells my keeper not to stand with the ball for 10 minutes to allow himself be tackled?
It's not even the tackled keeper that's the issue. It's just in real life when keepers get tackled - those 1/1,000 moments - they happen in a split second. A short back pass or miss-control. The keeper doesn't stand with the ball for 10 minutes and get tackled. That just looks crap and causes frustration.In real life players give the ball away which start counter attacks. But they don't just throw the ball directly to the opposition player. Why does every cut scene start with my attack - oh isn't this going to be exciting? - then a random pass to an opposition where the player turns around and passes it straight to their attacker. It just looks terrible. I get it. You want to tell the counter-attack narrative. Just do a better job of telling it. It could be a tackle from the opposition players wins the ball back and triggers a counter attack. Exciting.
And if I'm going to lose, beat me properly. Blow me away with your slick passing.
When I won the title I wasn't even happy. I stumbled across the line. In 3 seasons I haven't once punched the air. Air-punchability is the measure of any computer game. And this one fails measurably. If I could play FIFA I would. But I can't afford the time and I need some release from the awfulness of supporting Milan. I've managed to find a game which is more frustrating than watching Milan. That's something.
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29 minutes ago, anagain said:
For me this last paragraph shows just how unlikely it is for SI to ever win. If people weren't complaining about the match engine then they would be complaining that the game doesn't look as nice as games like FIFA.
It also shows just how little people will understand the game. Of course SI have to program for users to change the game. Every substitution or player you put in your team changes games.
So you want the game to be a series of events do you? You want to take away everything great that football manager has going for it to turn it in to a cheap mobile style game?
Then we have the beauty that is asking how SI missed this. It just proves that you have no understanding or care regarding how game development, and coding of a game as complex as FM, actually works. There are thousands of different ways in which this game is played. From teams in lower leagues with basic formations to the likes of Man City and Barcelona. SI are a small team and yet you expect them to catch every little problem that can happen with this game.
There's also the fact that any change to the match engine can have any number of effects, good or bad. You need to read Neil Brock's post that I linked to someone else, above, as well.
But, no, let's just repeat everything that is already known in as ranty and unconstructive a way as is possible. Because that will really help!
What I meant from that is that the issue is not the outcome (the story), it's how it's told.
Certain actions lead to certain events e.g. a goal. A 1v1 situation. Even - a chip over the top of a high defensive line.
That's the outcome. The developers can look at real footage of real matches and see how this outcome comes about in real matches.
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I'm bored of long balls.
I'm bored of the match engine full stop.
Ball over the top. Miss simple 1 v 1. Score 40 yard strike into the top corner. Those "unlucky" games where my players hit the post 3 or 4 times. 40 chances. FORTY. And I draw. Re-start. 3:0.
This doesn't tell me anything. Missing endless 1 v 1's doesn't tell me anything. Are my tactics working? Well they must be because my team created 40 chances. "Stop creating chances guys. Everyone knows 1 v 1s are the hardest things in football to score. Try more shots form 40 yards".
And why does every computer attack need to start with my attacks?
I get it. It's the deep defence/counter-attack storyline. My issue is not the storyline. It's the story telling. It's a rubbish way of telling that story.This is not like a FIFA where they have to program a playable football simulation with the user effecting the game and complex simulations. The developers have complete control. JUST TAKE REAL LIFE SITUATIONS. There's no shortage of source material. Forget about making the graphics look. Give the simulation some semblance of reality. How did the developers miss the endless long balls and endless missed 1v1s???
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I couldn't rely on Piatek even though he has finishing 18 and composure 17.
So I got Cavani on a free and he has finishing finishing 17 and composure 17.
Cavani is my starting striker but he misses sitters and then I bring on Piatek.
Between them they're getting enough goals to keep me top but I'm underwhelmed to say the least.
If they did score a higher percentage I'd probably be winning games by 5 goals so I guess that's the issue.
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This may actually be a good example to report and investigate to how the (too many?) set pieces on FM come about (and the shots off them). In this case, the inevitable free kicks after the fouls...
The game has specific stats for "chances", though indeed they are quite rubbish. If your main issue are the Long balls/one on oneish, then there is hope for you after a patch. If not, probably not.
Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
That’s not a “tell”. A “tell” would be not creating chances. I’m creating chances. Good one’s. Simple 1v1. Open goals. Endless chances and missing every single one.
And when I re-play a match, the “problem” often goes away.
I’ll play a game, miss 20 or 30 chances and the game will finish 0:0 or 0:1 and then in frustration I’ll quit and replay with the exact same team, tactics and team talk and win 4:0 with fewer chances.