(sic)

November 1, 2022

14 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

I think you make a good point (in bold) about players not squaring up the defender enough, and it is something we've also felt internally. It's definitely something we want to improve in future, but it's a very difficult thing to implement. If you could start a bug report with clear examples where a player could stand up the defender face to face, that would help us a lot.

But the other point to do with dribbling PIs - I'm not convinced that being able to force your players to play in an unrealistic way is necessarily the right direction for the game. In real life there must be managers telling their players to take on their man 'more often', and yet no player has more than 2.5 dribbles into the box per game or 4 successful dribbles per 90. If you could tell a player to dribble to the extent that they dribble far more than anyone else in real world football, I don't think it really helps us recreate real football which is our ultimate goal, especially when you consider that AI managers use the 'dribble more' instructions as well.

I do agree with you. We don't need to force pointless dribbles.

The thing is, it's not about dribbles into the box. The players don't have to cut inside across the entire defence or cut inside the box and score. Even though it would be really nice to see players do that sometimes. It still happens in real life, yet I don't see it happening in game. I didn't remember encountering it in FM22, and I've yet to encounter it in FM23.

Instead, we rarely see a player cutting in inside the final third. Just coming in from wide areas with the ball, and laying it off to another player would be nice, they don't have to dribble past the entire defence. Isolating good dribblers in 1v1 situations against a fullback is also a thing, yet again, even if I set up for it, I just don't see players actually dribbling past them (or if they do, it's more of a "run wide or to the byline, then turn around" thing).
It's the constant running wide with the ball like a regular winger. It's the running wide, to the byline, and then turning around, looking for passing options. They run into these areas, often isolating themselves. I don't understand why should we even use the IW over a regular Winger, if they do very similar things. They both end up running wide with the ball.

I just don't see the point of "Cut Inside With The Ball" instruction in that case.

October 31, 2022

1 minute ago, anagain said:

Did SI say there'd be less scout reports delivered to our inboxes?

I was getting that many last year.

Check the filter on the top right. Usually it's 95% agent offers.

October 31, 2022

4 minutes ago, akkm said:

Agree with you re underlying issues affecting things there

Not sure on 2d/3d...thought everything had changed to 3d but not sure on that one at all

3 minutes ago, Platinum said:

No it was mentioned that prior to FM22 it was a 2D plane and now its 3D

Ah so they did indeed change it then. I though there was something about it, just wasn't exactly sure if it's been done already of it was something that they are working on.

1 minute ago, tts0 said:

Expecting your widemen to cut inside, dribble past 3 opponents and score i just silly. Those days are gone, Im sorry.

But nobody's expecting that. I think we've all been pretty clear on what the issue is.

October 31, 2022

6 minutes ago, akkm said:

Actually this is spot on...there's a general issue where players struggle to operate in tight spaces/lack of space/in traffic/when confronted by players close by. Of course in real world football its tricky but not as tricky as in FM and the simulation isn't properly capturing players ability to operate in tighter spaces and in close proximity of players for dribbling/passing/receiving the ball and even for players to select a pass to a player with player/s on him.

Players are very reluctant to dribble into traffic or as you say once closer to people as then it's a turn & pass outside/lay off or generally not try and take on players especially inside and need too much space identified to run into or they won't bother.

Its similar as I alluded to in tight areas for players to pass into and its especially noticeable sometimes in central areas where this year we see that DMs usage can provide serious blockage to that area so play won't even be attempted there so players will choose to go long or wide too deep and too early in FM to avoid traffic and larger spaces are identified as a higher value/easier pass therefore pass decision making will select this rather than operate TIs/PIs to play through the middle at least as a style...yes it is and should be harder but if players will avoid this the way they do in FM then this a core issue to the engine not allowing it to at least be attempted as a style. It often then gives a sense of a user's team playing on the pitch be disconnected to its tactical inputs.

If my team attempts it and keeps failing I should address that tactically or with personnel...ie signing more creative/technical players who can operate in the tight spaces and move around and find small pockets of space and thread short passes along the ground to create chances and openings directly or in passages of play.

At times it seems idenfication of space in FMs 3D modelling doesn't reflect real world abilities to operate in said tight spaces and too much space is what FM needs to identify as a trigger to pass/move/dribble into. FM may need to re tune this decision making to identify smaller spaces and close proximity of others as being ok/good decision making and not a deterrent to passing/moving/dribbling where currently it can deter all of that too much.

Adding in the welcome introduction this year of the chaos factor/battling in midfield and pressing factors this means ability for players to operate in tighter spaces should be at a very high level but the dearth of space in the middle has meant play gets directed too wide or too long too quickly and that possession game that requires rich movement and quality pass decision making isn't currently operating as well as it should. I've seen it in previous versions of FM where higher pressing and congestion on central areas knocks out the ability to play through there too much.

A 're calibration' of how 3D space is calculated may be required to allow better play to unfold ie reduce larger identification of space required to operate in...not really sure but this would obviously help to identify how players identify and make good decisions then whether to pass/move/dribble.

Obv not entirely sure but SI will know more. I've seen SI enable better central play/dribbling before in tricky circumstances so all going well they will be able to do this again for FM23...ideally on release as well. It won't be easy but I'm sure providing as many examples of all of this will help them

The space isn't actually 3D, but 2D. I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that players operated as 2D discs on a plane, rather than being 3D entities in the real 3D world. So that could be an issue in itself.

We can definitely observe these things, and report them. But other than that, we don't know why something works like that, and whether its intentional or not. That's something only SI know.

I think there are many underlying issues here, and there are many reasons why something can't be done right now in this current ME.

October 31, 2022

And to add further to this point, the dribbling itself is almost non-existent.

Quick changes of pace, quick changes of direction, tricks, flicks, skills... nope.

Instead dribbling just boils down to the player running forward with the ball. So when there's no space to go to, players don't know what to do. Well, they do know, they just try to find a pass, or just cross it into the box.

October 31, 2022

30 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Yeah its definitely a tactical issue.

I'll have to heavily disagree with this.

Players not willing to take on players and not willing to dribble and cut inside on their stronger foot, definitely isn't a tactical issue but the ME one. They did this absolutely fine, a few years ago. Why it's the case now, we can only speculate. My thoughts are that it's intentional, because the defenders simply wouldn't know how to deal with that, for whatever reason.

Players are afraid of the opposition players. They're afraid to go near them, and they're especially afraid to dribble past them in tighter spaces, most notably in the final third.

What they often do, is run with the ball, while making sure to avoid coming close to any opposition players. They aren't dribbling, they're just running and kicking the ball. What this results in, is players just running wide, as that's the only area that they deem has enough free space for them to run into. Or alternatively, they will cut inside, but only when they're completely isolated, and when there isn't an opposition player in sight. Basically, when they don't have to dribble past anyone.
For me that often happens around the middle third, but almost never in the final third. The issue in the final third, is that there's often more defenders in the way, so the player is simply unwilling to go inside with the ball, instead choosing to run wide, and then pass it or cross it.

The core issue simply isn't a tactical one.

October 31, 2022

13 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

The difference between a 4231 and 433 is fairly arbitrary, to the point where some coaches wouldn't even consider the 4231 a separate formation, instead seeing it as a variant of a 433.

I would agree, but in FM it kinda is different.

There's a difference between using a single vs double pivot, though in Pep's system, like you said, the IWBs come inside.
Another difference is the AM position. In FM, there's a big difference between using roles like CM-A, Mezzala, etc. in a 4-3-3, vs using an AM in a 4-2-3-1. Those roles in a 4-3-3 will often occupy half-spaces, while the AM in a 4-2-3-1 will be all over the place, often sitting in the middle, which you don't necessarily want. And if you make something asymmetrical, the AM will stand right in front of one of the players in double pivot, and you won't have that player in double pivot move more centrally.

Another thing I've found, is that the double pivot players stand way too close to each other, instead of staying a bit more apart. Even on the widest settings, with stay wider PI.

October 29, 2022

6 minutes ago, Overmars said:

One thing that could really spice up FM is if figuring out a player's PA became much more difficult. Scouts are savants in the game, and that's not a realistic representation of real life. There are essentially two options here:

Make PA a variable amount. I don't think this is necessary, but it would help create more variance in player development.

Make scouts unable to identify a player's PA beyond a huge band of uncertainty. I think this option is more realistic and would shift some of the optimal FM strategy away from acquiring wonderkids who your scouts have guaranteed will be elite players.

PA is often variable, though it is determined once you start a save, so it doesn't change after that. Making it variable once you start a save would be a nice option, though I don't know how that would work.

The fact that there's a set PA, and that you simply can't develop a player any more once you hit that mark, is incredibly unrealistic. It's also unrealistic that a player gets like 180PA, so he's almost guaranteed to become an amazing player. It definitely needs to be more dynamic, but it's a computer game after all, and it relies on attributes to calculate how things happen. Another thing is, PA is incredibly easy to access, so that's more on the user not using tools to access it, in order to have a more realistic experience.

I would like it if PA was simply unknown early on, so you'd judge players potential based off his current attributes, stats, and how fast he's improving. Maybe there are a few "wonderkids" that you'd just know if they have a lot of potential, but for everyone else, you shouldn't really be able to determine it until later on. Also some players definitely are late bloomers, so they might not fully develop to their max PA until in their mid 20s.

Overall, I haven't given it much though, so idk what the solution would be. I'd imagine the game would definitely benefit from it being more dynamic, but another huge thing is how all of that info is displayed to us.

October 29, 2022

6 hours ago, Ferocious289 said:

Anyone else notice the annoying tendancy for fullbacks and wingers when there is a free man in the box instead of crossing it in straight away they turn/cutback and wait for defenders to swarm the box before crossing it in?

Yep. I often found my Wingbacks in quite a lot of space, where they just need to hit the cross, but instead they try to dribble it or pass it. What I also found, that players are lacking, is the ability to cross the ball as soon as they receive it. Instead they always have to make extra touches, and by that point they've been closed down.

October 28, 2022

1 hour ago, giglet13 said:

So it's fixed, (Efl blue bit didnt change anything @snowofman unfortunately) but dropping these two files from base skin back in my match folder did:

match title bar.xml 4.82 kB · 1 download match title bar score highlight frame viewer.xml 4.23 kB · 2 downloads

All credit to another skinner on sortitoutsi who fixed this but no idea what it is about these panels that had caused the issue. If anyone can/wants to decode for future understanding feel free to share any learnings - but I'm happy with it just being fixed :P

I think I've found the issue.

In the match title bar.xml file, there's a line

<container class="client_object_viewer_xml_panel" file="match/match score area panel">
					<record id="object_property" get_property="objt" set_property="objt" />
				</container>

In the file you've attached, that line of code also has an id assigned to it - id="MsaP"

So by adding the id to the container, I've managed to fix the issue with CL clock having wrong color. I'm pretty sure it's the same thing for other comps, including EFL.

October 28, 2022

My CL scoreboard also does this, but it seems to work on the default skin. I have no idea why it doesn't change the clock font colour.

October 28, 2022

11 hours ago, jcp1417 said:

I dont really know what you're talking about. How does it depend on anything? Any coach, general or assistant, can be in charge of tactics or any other training session.

The root question here is, is there any reason why I would offer a person the job of general coach or assistant coach knowing that there's no limit to the number you can have of each (other than the staff limit directed by the board).

I think it was a pretty straight forward answer, but sure let me explain more.

The difference depends on that staff member's responsibilities. You can set the responsibilities yourself. So you could have a coach that will do everything your assistant manager would do by the default. You've said it yourself, "Any coach, general or assistant, can be in charge of tactics or any other training session."

So is there any reason why you should offer a person the job of a general coach or an assistant coach, knowing that there's no limit to the number you can have of each? I'd say no. The "title" itself doesn't matter, only their responsibilities do.

October 27, 2022

4 minutes ago, 2feet said:

Fair enough, but careful what you wish for, because a player who can feint and dribble past multiple defenders will destroy formations, making it seem like whatever the defence, he will just feint past your defenders like magic.

Are you prepared to have the computer do that to your players too?

I mean, this isn't something new. It literally existed in the game a few years back. I'm really not sure why the players have suddenly stopped doing it.

But yeah, I'd absolutely prefer that, over players not being able to do it.

October 27, 2022

19 minutes ago, 2feet said:

You mean like this from FM22?

FM - Stroeykens long range 480.mov

See, that's not what I'm talking about. The players are great at running into space and cutting in without the ball. I'm talking about dribbling and cutting inside with the ball, trying to dribble and take players on.

October 27, 2022

23 minutes ago, GIMN said:

I actually punched the air in happiness. Over changing 4 words of text.

Skinning summed up

October 27, 2022

2 minutes ago, jcp1417 said:

Correct, but do you know what the functional difference is between an assistant and a coach?

I mean, it really depends. It's not a universal thing, certain assistant managers might be in charge of tactics, others may lead the training, etc.

It really depends on what you assign to them.

October 27, 2022

2 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Weird, I get plenty through usually

It is weird, because it's such a contrast from FM22, where I used to get 50+ recommendations constantly. Which became too annoying to deal with after a while. So on one hand, I really do appreciate the change.
On the other, it feels like it doesn't work properly. Though whenever I actually get a report, it is a decent player that I will consider signing, and not a random player I'll just discard, like in FM22.

October 27, 2022

2 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Further proof that everyone plays differently.

What I've found is that it's all about how you set up the focus. It's not like the old days where you could fine tune the exact specifications and still expect a ton of players to come through. Scouts are more reactive now, so if you are whittling the search down too much, you're not going to get a lot of responses, usually. Of course, that all still depends on the number and quality of your scouts and how many players you have loaded.

It is certainly different to what it was before, but I've found it to be a really positive change once I worked out how to use it properly.

It's one of the things about FM though, there's next to no guides on how to use certain features, they just leave you to get on with it for yourself. I often think FM for a new player must be such a daunting experience.

My scouting focus has literally been set to scout for a certain position, 3 stars quality minimum. That's it. No other specific requirements. Nobody comes through.

90% of my "scout reports" are actually agents offering/recommending their players.

October 27, 2022

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I don't understand how people are finding the new scouting tool tough to use. It's been revolutionary for me. I now find that part of the game far more enjoyable and user-friendly than it was before. Setting up scouting focuses is slick and easy, and everything is in the one place. No more need to navigate through pages setting up scout assignments only for you to forget all about them as they're hidden away on the assignment screen. Now, when I click on scouting, all my recruitment focuses are there on the first page. This has been the single greatest addition this year, and worth a new release for that alone IMO.

It's too many clicks, for results that don't match the effort. So far I've been getting anywhere from 0 to like 2-3 reports for whatever my scouting focus is. Scouts don't seem to recommend anyone, at all. Almost as if the feature doesn't work.

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I also really like the squad planner. Obviously it's not a screen you're going to use every day, but I've already found it useful, especially the feature to look ahead to upcoming seasons. Saved a lot of money on not buying a new left-back, as one look at the next season tab showed a left-back out on loan who would fit perfectly for the season ahead. This feature may be slightly more redundant the further you get into a save and the knowledge of your whole squad increases, but for the first couple of seasons at a club, I think it's another great addition. I like it a lot more than the old squad depth screen, and I particularly like how seamless it is to set up a new recruitment focus from there.

Yet another bugged feature. It keeps resetting, so any changes that I make will be overwritten in a few days time. Pointless to even use it in that case. Besides, it's good to look at it once in a while, but at certain point I can memorize my entire squad, so it kinda becomes obsolete. Also, people have suggested how they could improve this, and that many features are missing. But knowing how this game works, that stuff will be added in the future, so they have a new "headline" feature to showcase. It's quite barebones now.

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Match engine is terrific. Took a bit of getting used to at first as it's noticably different, but as others have said, it's slowly starting to mirror the chaos of real life football. In terms of the graphics, the player animations don't really bother me - I'm one of those who are still amazed that SI have a 3D representation of that incredibly complex match engine at all - but the other aesthetics still need massive improvements. Stadiums, lighting, pitch textures, weather effects, etc etc are so far behind, and there's no excuse for SI being so tardy in this department. It's still the biggest immersion killer for me.

ME is both better and worse than previous version. It is beta, but at this point we'll have to wait until March patch (yet again) for it to be truly good. There are so many issues, from through balls being overpowered, to certain stuff simply not working properly. Like players not applying pressure correctly (or at all). I've seen other people struggling with that as well, so I'm not the only one. High-press simply doesn't seem to work. Players aren't actually pressing the backline correctly a lot of the time.
Then there's players pinging those passes under pressure without any issues.
Finally, IWs/IFs not cutting inside and dribbling past players properly (which carries on from the last year). Instead my IW, who should cut inside on his stronger foot, just ignores that instruction completely, and runs it down to the byline, where he turns around and tries to pass/cross it. The only time I've seen him cut in, was when he's around the halfway line on the pitch, and when there's nobody around him. Players just seem unwilling to dribble past players, instead dribbling boils down to player running and kicking the ball in front of him. Players don't want to take players on, they don't dribble inside when taking them on, and instead they just run forward.

I agree with graphical improvements to stadiums, lighting, textures, etc.

I can't say I don't enjoy the game. I really do. But it's not because it's suddenly a better game, but because it's a FM game. It's always going to be good.
Though certain issues, especially with the ME, do make me feel heavily disappointed.

October 26, 2022

15 hours ago, FmTuga said:

Just my 2 cents

Peolple should respect more fm skin makers

This skin is almost with minor changes the OPZ 22

This is the main reason why some skinners dont share skins anymore

Agreed. For me personally, it's just one of many reasons.

3 hours ago, Olas Nick said:

personally, I see no problem with others using your work

but the name should be "OPZ Elite 22 skin modded by Mr Hough for FM23"
and this is needed not even by the author of the original, but by people who will use this skin. to know who to contact in case of problems and new requests

Idk, when someone just copies your entire skin, and then puts it out there for others to download and says "I made this", I wouldn't say it's not a problem.

You're taking someone else's work, and publishing it under your own name. Yes they've given credit to the original authors, but why would I bother making my own skin in that case? I can just copy someone else's work, give credit, and publish it as my own.

15 hours ago, Mr Hough said:

What are you talking about, "Are you allowing him to keep it online" who are you like the Skin Police - Idiot.

I made this last year like i said and updated it for this years, If you don't want to use it don't if you do use it.

So not only are you using and publishing someone else's work, but you're also being arrogant and full of yourself. There's also no need for insults.
Nobody's going to "not allow" you to keep it online, it's the internet, you can do it if you want to. But you didn't "make" this, you took the work of other people, mashed it together, and published it as your own work under your own name.

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue if you just published it as "TSC + OPZ Elite mashup skin". Instead, it comes off as if you're stealing someone else's work.

October 26, 2022

33 minutes ago, kiingallen said:

Must be all in my head then. It wasn’t my tactics pre update, but now it is? We’ve just turned into a bad team overnight (literally). Or the whole league have now sussed me out, despite having 2 different trained tactics which were largely successful.

I don’t want to sound like I’m just complaining here. I’m very impressed with the ME (generally). The potential this year is bigger than ever imo.
It’s so far been much more immersive already than ever. But to slump that drastically and suddenly is very strange.

Well that’s my feedback, post previous update.

Have a good day.

It depends on so many things. Maybe your tactic was exploiting a certain weakness in the ME (not necessarily to your knowledge, unintentionally). That would imply there were changes to it though.
Maybe indeed the opposition have figured you out (though it definitely would feel weird when that happens right after the patch). It might also depend on a team you're managing, and where you were expected to finish. Maybe it's one bad result, that spiraled into a losing streak - very possible. There are many possibilities, that don't have anything to do with the ME itself, though the timing of it would imply that the patch did something.

I agree that there are issues with the ME currently. You have pointed out through balls, and in my first reply, I mentioned they've been a problem since day 1 of the beta. There definitely are a few more issues.

I just haven't noticed any changes. Maybe indeed it was just one bad game, which resulted in another, and then another. My team is generally getting the same results as it has before the patch.

October 26, 2022

16 minutes ago, SeaCarrot said:

You're missing my point. This is a PC game, coded and using numbers. It's not actually playing a game of football.

How else do you think you hit the instant result button, before a game, and get a different result then when you load up the same save, do nothing different, and hit the button again. There HAS to be something generating a seed/randomiser for the game to do different things in the ME when everything else stays static. No match plays the same, for a reason.

We already know the match result is determined when you enter the match engine, its done, you're just watching a fun replay. The ME changes the result when do you things like, sub, or shouts etc, and recalcs the game again.

I understand that, but the way I view "seeds" is like presets.

It calculates the match based on many different things, but those different things don't necessarily always effect the match in the same way. I gave my examples (decision making, concentration attributes). Those might not always effect a player in the same way. So even if there are "seeds", there are more seeds than you can think of that are being calculated for the match. And when you make a change, "the seed" completely changes.

The way I understood your comment is like it's a simple randomizer that generates a seed which determines the outcome of the match, when in fact it's way more complicated than that.

October 26, 2022

I hate to be that guy, but maybe it really is your tactics (among a dozen of other things that could impact your results).

My results haven't suddenly changed post update, because I've made a tactic that makes sense, regardless of the ME it's played on. In fact, nothing has changed at all for me (at least I didn't notice anything).

Balls over the top/through balls have been a thing since day 1 of the beta. It's not suddenly a new thing introduced by this patch.

I'm not saying nothing has changed, maybe something did in fact change. But you have to point out what it is, instead of just saying "I'm losing matches now". Or alternatively, submit a bug report, and let the SI find out what the issue is.

October 26, 2022

1 hour ago, SeaCarrot said:

In order for a match to produce different results when simulating through it after save scumming for example, there needs to be a number randomiser run. Else every reload before a match would produce the exact same match outcome if you simulated it.

But football doesn't work that way. Football is inherently random, you won't get the exact same things happening in each match.

Maybe if a player had poor concentration, in one match he might have paid attention to what was going on around him at a certain moment, but in other game he didn't, so the opposing team scored. Or if player's decision making was poor, so the opposition exploited that bad decision.

There are so many variables, that you cannot simply say there's a "number randomizer" or that matches use a "different seed". No match plays the same, but not because of a pre-determined thing.

October 25, 2022

14 minutes ago, kiingallen said:

The latest updates have 100% had an effect on the ME. Regardless if anyone tells me it hasn't. I know what I see. Im not here to debate it

The thing you've described, has been happening since day 1 of the beta. Constant through balls.

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