ilkork
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Posts posted by ilkork
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Just now, CFuller said:
The lowest objective I could choose was mid-table, so I went with that. (The team was predicted to finish 19th, though, If I'm not mistaken.)
That was it. Board expectation is the one that matters for this kind of team talk, not media prediction
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2 minutes ago, CFuller said:As if I didn't know it already, I have to admit now that I didn't choose the best option.
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2 hours ago, CFuller said:
Can somebody please convince me that this scenario actually makes sense?
Which option did you choose at the beginning of the season? Avoid relegation or battle for mid-table finish? (forget about media prediction for a moment)
If it was the former, then your choice in the team talk was right and this is one more example that this area (interactions) needs a lot of work.
If it was the latter, then you picked the wrong option in the team talk.
7 minutes ago, oulzac said:Why do so many players have 1 determination?
Because the researchers haven't set a standard value, they left it to "0", so the game generates one for the player, randomly.
Yeah, one more area that needs a lot of work (attribute distribution templates)...0 -
10 hours ago, Cleon said:
Stay back all times PPM only works on defensive players, so would have no impact on the winger.
Besides that, do you think that some of the rest will help in @91427's case? Like, for example, the "Arrives Late in Opposition Area"? I'm basically asking because I've never used it, but it sounds kinda logical to make the winger stay out wide, and not get involved much when the ball is in the opponent's penalty area.
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Just now, 91427 said:
Thanks for the help mate, I'll give all that at a try when I'm next at my computer
You are welcome.
But as I said, these PPM's are contrasting to the winger's role, but I think they might help in your case. Before you start with the PPM training, wait for an answer from a mod.0 -
54 minutes ago, 91427 said:
As wide as is possible basically.
Well, despite the obvious "Play Much Wider" TI, "Hugs Line" PPM (you said no effect) and "Runs With Ball Down Right/Left" PPM, there are a couple of PPMs that, although contrasting to the winger's role, may help in your case:
Arrives Late In Opposition Area:
This is definition of this PPM (taken from this):
So, I think it will basically make him stay out wider.
Stays Back At All Times:
Since your winger is an attacking player by default (so, higher up the pitch by default), this PI may kinda "force" him to "miss" entering the opponent's half, and as a result, stay wider.
This is the definition for this PPM (also taken from this):
As I said, these PPMs are contrasting for the winger's role, but in your case they might help. Personally, I've never used such PPMs for wingers, before you try anything, let's wait for more answers (and especially an answer from a mod).
Also, the "Cross from Byline" PI will cause your player to move the ball as high up the pitch as possible before crossing.
At last, I think that more structured shapes will cause your player to focus more on his individual mentality, rather than the team's. So, in combination with those 2 "weird" PPMs, it may also help.
Keep all these in mind.0 -
9 minutes ago, 91427 said:
Is there any way to ensure wingers stay wide even when the ball enters the final third? In my tactic they're my only source of width so it can be fairly frustrating how they seem to come narrow very quickly in my build up play. Doesn't seem to effect me much results wise but I just don't like having my whole team within the width of the 18 yard box. The 'hugs line' ppm seems to have no effect unfortunately
How much "wide"?
You mean, even when the ball is in the opponent's half, you want them to not try to contribute at all, but stay out wide?0 -
After 3 videos, I'm finally very satisfied with something. This is a major improvement, very glad with this feature
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I'd like to believe I played a little part in this.
EDIT: Well, Scouting was also good.0 -
26 minutes ago, El Payaso said:
But like said: those are the instructions that make Trequartista a Trequartista. And they are based on how the role works irl and how it imitates that in the game. It's not TA anymore if you can tweak those.
And who said that the "Shoot Less Often" PI makes the Advanced Playmaker? Is this how this role works irl?
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Just now, nie jem frytek said:
Some of you sound like you think that the best tactic ever would be 11 Messis on the pitch without a goalkeeper.
Care being more specific please?
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13 minutes ago, herne79 said:
Might be an idea if you recheck the hard coded PIs of the TQ. He has More Risky Passes and Move into Channels set, so the only thing missing from your wish list is tackling (which makes sense as the role is based on players such as Totti or Riquelme). And you can even get round that (to an extent) by using a player with high Aggression, Determination and Work Rate. And/or set a TI to get stuck in (although that will affect everyone of course, not just the TQ).
Yes, you were right about the "More Risky Passes". It is added by default. However, the "Roam From Position" is also added and I don't want that. Also, I don't like the "Close Down Much Less" and "Ease Off Tackles".
And no, I don't have a player with high Aggression, Determination and Work Rate, neither do I like the "Get Stuck In" TI.
Like I said in an earlier post, these are just workarounds that don't fix the problem. The problem is why is the "Shoot Less Often" PI locked for a role like the Advanced Playmaker, and not just blank so that we decide what we want.
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1 minute ago, herne79 said:
Yes there are. The Trequartista and Enganche are both playmaker "ball magnets" available at AMC.
1 hour ago, ilkork said:Ok, let me choose Enganche:
-Close Down Much Less? Why?
-Not being able to add Move Into Channels? Why?
-Not being able to add Hold Up Ball? Why?
Ok, let me choose Trequartista:
-Ease Off Tackles? Why?
-Fewer Risky Passes? Why?
-Roam From Position? No, I just want him to Move Into Channels.
You see Herne? All these make no sense to me and leave me dissatisfied.0 -
2 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:
Only you aren't. You just don't understand the bigger picture of what's involved in how a player works in a team. The locked in PI's of an advanced playmaker are simply a template of how an AP will work within the confines of the role itself. If you have an AP with high finishing, composure, decisions, long shots etc and play him in an attacking strata of the pitch, he WILL shoot when given the chance.
So, the problem isn't taking away a PI from a player, it's finding the RIGHT player to play the role the way you want it to.
Yes, okay, I'm wrong. So is Noikeee.
Let's just leave it here...
1 minute ago, apvmoreira said:You've said that earlier, but on his back what are the roles?
BWM-D and BBM-S. What's your point?
Look mate, I don't have a problem with my tactic. My tactic is very good. I have a problem as to why is the "Shoot Less Often" PI locked for the Advanced Playmaker.0 -
Just now, apvmoreira said:
If you don't use playmakers as central mids, it can, i've used in 17 with great success, using a 4222 tactic, emulating Brazilian football
I use an Advanced playmaker in the AM area.
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Just now, pauso said:
Because an ap should not shoot often? he's a playmaker, he wants the ball to make assist to his team mates. this is his main work. if you want a player who mainly try to score, then he's not a playmaker
Really? Go say that to Pogba...
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Just now, apvmoreira said:
Use offensive midfielder and put all the PIs you want.
Jesus... We said earlier, THE ATTACKING MIDFIELDER ISN'T A BALL MAGNET.
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1 minute ago, El Payaso said:
I believe that on FM he will see enough of the ball even without being a ball magnet.
And you always have the option to teach him the 'shoots from the distance' player trait.
No, I don't want him to have a heavier workload.
I don't know how to say this in English. All these are not the fix to the problem. They are workarounds, that don't entirely fix the main problem.
You know that I'm right, it's not just me. Let me quote one of the best posts in the entire forum:
On 9/7/2017 at 20:02, noikeee said:I'm not sure I agree with the general tone and attitude but I generally agree with the OP. Getting rid of the sliders and moving into TC concepts was one of the best things SI has done, but it shouldn't have brought together the attached restrictions on player roles and all the confusingly inter-connected things. We've been stuck with a clunky, restrictive tactical interface for years now with little progress on it. The game below is pretty good but it suffers from this layer on top.
I mean, I can make a pretty comprehensive list of ways I feel restricted in this game:
Roles- Why can't I tell a DLF/S to stop playing risky passes? What if I want something that's a little more creative than a DF but not a last-pass type player like a DLF?
- Why is "close down more" locked for a CM/D? What if I just want him to stay back and hold a restrained defensive position (relative to a CM position), instead of acting like a slightly toned down version of the headless chicken role aka the BWM?
- Why is "more risky passes" locked for a DLP? What if I just want him to dictate play from deep by mostly passing sideways?
- Why are the ball magnet effects of target men and all playmaker roles un-changeable? What if I like the PIs one of the playmaker roles have, but don't want the magnet effect?
- Why can't I tell my AP to shoot more? Is there anything in real life that forbids my playmaker who also happens to be good to shoot from long to try it?
- Why must a IWB have almost every single PI turned on? Why do I need all my IWBs to dribble more and play more risky passes? What if I have a guy that I want to use as an extra body on midfield from the fullback position, but who just passes sideways and doesn't do anything wild rather than morph into a deep-lying Iniesta?
- Speaking of which, why does the IWB role perform COMPLETELY different depending on whether I have a winger in front of him or not? What if I want to choose between the IWB that immediately moves to a midfield position without the ball (which happens with a winger in front), or the IWB that dribbles his way into midfield like a IF (which happens without a winger).
- Why must a Raumdeuter sit narrower? What if I want a guy that stretches play laterally but doesn't dribble and cross all the time like a winger does? There doesn't appear to be any fitting role for this?
- Why does the half-back role only drop to split the CBs if you're not playing with fullbacks?
- Why does the sweeper keeper role barely do anything different from a normal keeper and not sweep at all?
- Why does the BPD role often waste more of the ball than the regular CB role, because it perversely tells them to play more risky passes which ends up with more punted up long balls, when the common sense interpretation of the role is the other way around?
- Why can't I tell any of my centreback roles, even the BPD, to dribble more? I know it's silly and stupid risky, but let me do it.
- Why can't I manually tell my wingers whether I want them to naturally defend in a very wide position like in FM17, or in a narrow, proper 2-banks-of-4 narrow stance like in FM16?
Mentality and team shape
- Why is creative freedom linked to fluidity? What if I want very tight lines (Very Fluid) but very little creativity (Very Structured), Atlético Madrid style?
- Why is "counter" mentality named the way it is, which is completely not counter-attacking football as discussed earlier, yet is more prone to activating a nebulous hidden mode of sudden gung-ho attacks?
- Why does lower mentalities increase the passing length of my defending players and decrease the passing length of my attacking players? What if I want to change mentalities for other reasons but don't want this side-effect?
- I often find myself wanting to change mentalities to increase/lower my player's positioning overall, HOWEVER this also increases my player's risky choices with the ball (ie more through balls, more long shots). What if I want the former but not the later? For more forward runs and higher positioning do I need to go through every single of my players and change their roles, when by the way this could have all sorts of all other implications depending on the available roles?
Instructions
- Why does work ball into box affect crossing? What if I want to stop my players to shoot from long (which they are VERY VERY VERY prone to do in this version of the game, against deep defences) but not stop the crosses? Why do I need to go through every single player and give them the "shoot less" PI for this?
- Does anyone actually know the full list of implications of what "retain possession" does these days? Does it shorten passing lenght? Drop risky passes? Turn down the tempo? All of it? What am I supposed to do with an instruction whose effects are nebulous and unclear?
- As the OP vaguely hinted at, why is there no distinction in instructions between running with the ball into an open space, and running past opposition players? They both seem to be covered by the "run with ball often" or "dribble more" instructions? What if I want one but not the other?
- Why is there no distinction between overall defending width and attacking width, with the defending width being exclusively set by mentality? What if I want to change this and defend narrower/wider but don't want all the other side-effects of mentality?
I'm sure you can think of many workarounds for many of these issues, or think these are pointless issues that do not make sense, and point me instead to SI's vision of the roles and instructions. And those are valid interpretations. I hope however, that I have shown there are plenty of other alternative interpretations, and plenty of constraints as a result of this tactical interface with too many interconnected side-effects from choosing certain instructions.
Please give us more freedom. I don't care if it makes the game too easy - maybe it will. Maybe it will open up holes for the ME to be exploited, indeed. I just want to feel that my players do what I tell them directly to do (in their own way according to their attributes, of course), rather than game the interface around by pressing 5 different buttons of 5 different things to maybe get them to play the way I want it. This is indeed not good game design.
And now imagine someone who tries to dance their way through the interface, as a newbie to the game, without having the knowledge I've accumulated here through years and years of reading the forum to know what the instructions do. Even real life football tactics gurus would be absolutely lost in the interface and nuances.
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Just now, El Payaso said:
Use a different role then.
That's what I'm trying to say. There isn't any other ball magnet in the AM area.
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6 minutes ago, El Payaso said:
Because these instructions are parts that make the role like for example closing down much more for a BWM?
No ****, really? I didn't know that SI decides what's football. Let's give the "Shoot Less Often" PI to players like Pogba, Coutinho, Ronaldinho, Zidane, Rivaldo. Because SI says so.
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11 minutes ago, herne79 said:
Is your answer as to why SI "limits" us.
Re. your AP question, you could also try a different playmaker role at AMC where shoot less often is not hardcoded.
Ok, let me choose Enganche:
-Close Down Much Less? Why?
-Not being able to add Move Into Channels? Why?
-Not being able to add Hold Up Ball? Why?
Ok, let me choose Trequartista:
-Ease Off Tackles? Why?
-Fewer Risky Passes? Why?
-Roam From Position? No, I just want him to Move Into Channels.
You see Herne? All these make no sense to me and leave me dissatisfied.0 -
Just now, westy8chimp said:
Pogba is Utds playmaker.. last year had most shots for them. Coutinho is Liverpools playmaker and takes a lot of long shots.
Playmaker doesn't just mean passing - it is the player responsible for your attacking momentum... with good decisions I would want him to choose between shot or pass. Not to be told to shoot less (or more) often.
Exactly!
Man, that's why they hate us in the OTF. We share similar views.
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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:
So, therefore he WILL shoot given the chance. The 'shoots less often' instruction doesn't prevent him from having shots at goal, it means in line with the role, if there's a more sensible pass on, that'll be his first instinct -- ie, a 'playmaker'.
What if I want him to Shoot More Often plus all the other things an AP does? Why does SI limit us? What's the reasoning behind this limit?
Leave it blank and let us decide what we want to do with our AP!0 -
Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:
Why then, would you want a 'ball magnet' to shoot more often?
Because he has good Long Shots and is already in an advanced position.
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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:
Create a vanilla AM (or CM if that area), give all the individual instructions to make him an AP, and include shoot more often. (or just DON'T include Shoot less often)
Job done.
But the AM isn't a ball magnet...
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Did they purposefully show us the Advanced Playmaker's locked "Shoot Less Often" PI, so that we become more disappointed?
Come on...
This is me right now (if you care):
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playable vs view only leagues
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted · Edited by ilkork
Okay, have a look on what other people had said on the matter:
This (I highlighted the conclusion, taken from this):
Since Amaroq's quote is from 2009, I'm not 100% sure if it applies in FM18, and if yes, if all parts of it.
This also (taken from this):
This also (taken from this):
If you were wondering about player development in Playable, View-Only and leagues that are Off, have a look at this quote (taken from this):
Have a look on these topics, more questions are answered there.