AvidFMer
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Posts posted by AvidFMer
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20 hours ago, prched55 said:
Both of your tactics are pretty unbalanced both offensively and defensively.
Offensively, you have no width on your left hand side, which means teams who are sitting back can easily defend you since they aren't being stretched. So basically every team in the PL since Man U's rep is so high. It also explains why you played better in the Champions League since teams would attack you more and give you more space.
Defensively, there is no cover on the wings so teams can easily overload you there and stretching your defense.
You essentially would need world class players in every position to make this work.
What would you suggest I do to re-balance both tactics?
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I've played and restarted multiple times because I just can't seem to get the tactics right.
This post won't be so coherent as I'm just sharing my thoughts as and when they come to mind.
I want to achieve the following things in my save:
- use 3 at the back (because of the new wide centre back role)
- play Sancho on the left hand side whilst keeping Bruno in his preferred AMC position
- no use of wingbacks as I wouldn't be able to use Sancho properly
So this is the main tactic that I'm trying to get working:
I haven't used the trigger press more TI because I prefer to use split block pressing instead as I read from someone on here I think it was experienced defender saying that with a split press you can have the same pressing urgency but with much more solid defensive stability as players don't get needlessly dragged out of shape.
So I use the "press more" PI on the attacking midfielder, shadow striker, inverted winger and defensive winger as I want them to pin the opposition back in their half. Press more is already hardcoded into the pressing forward so no changes needed here.
I want the 2 DMs to give balance by holding back whilst the others press. But I also wanted to add a bit of an attacking dimension with the Segundo Volante so I added "Get Further Forward" PI there.
I've restarted so many times so I don't have results to share but they've generally been below par. I languish in mid table with a squad that should be capable of challenging even in the 1st season, especially with my go-to signings which are as follows:
- Declan Rice - obvious reasons, usually £90m - £100m
- Yves Bissouma - quality player as well
- Karim Adeyemi - wonderkid but always loaned back to Salzburg first season
- Sebastian Coates - plays for Sporting CP and has unbelievable technical and mental attributes
- Oliver Skipp - wonderkid plus homegrown
- Aleksandr Mitrovic - cheap loan from Fulham with mandatory buy clause, suits pressing forward role and is young enough
Player sales usually include:
- Eric Bailly - want defenders who can pass out the back
- Wan Bissaka - terrible mentals
- Fred - low concentration attribute a pet peeve of mine plus midfield needs an upgrade anyway
Special shoutout goes to Jesse Lingard who always smashes it for me in every FM iteration I've played. He suits the shadow striker role so well and is always my top scorer in every save I've played so far on FM22.
So first choice eleven for tactic 1 is usually:
- SKsu - Henderson / De Gea (rotation)
- BPco - Lindelof
- WRCBsu - Varane
- WLCBsu - Coates
- IWat - Sancho / Pogba
- DLPsu - Matic / Rice / Pogba
- VOLsu - Rice / Skipp (rotation) / Bissouma (rotation)
- DWde - Dalot / Bissouma / McTominay (rotation)
- AMsu - Bruno / Mata / Sancho / Pogba
- SSat - Lingard / Ronaldo (very rarely)
- PFsu - Cavani / Bruno (rotation) / Mitrovic (rotation)
The biggest problem comes in when I have to play games away from home.
In this case I usually opt for a different set up:
First choice eleven here would be:
- SKsu - Henderson / De Gea (rotation)
- BPco - Lindelof
- WRCBsu - Varane
- WLCBsu - Coates
- HBde - Rice / Matic / Lindelof (last ditch rotation)
- IWat - Sancho / Pogba
- CARsu - Bissouma / Rice
- CMat - Bruno / Lingard
- WMsu - Bissouma / Pogba / McTominay (rotation)
- AMsu - Bruno / Mata / Sancho / Pogba
- AFat - Ronaldo / Rashford / Lingard (rotation)
Here I try and keep hold of the ball as much as possible as a way of defending, because I know once I lose the ball I'm in trouble.
I use the press more trigger here just to get all players chasing after the ball as soon as its lost, so no split press here.
The focus play down the middle and work ball into box is something I've tried for possession, retention of the ball and slow build up to create quality chances.
Same goes for the cautious mentality, although I'm not sure if that goes against possession tactic building.
My reasoning for both tactics is based on Cleon's thought of using the roles to dial up or reduce the aggressiveness of the tactic.
So I've gone for cautious here but with an attacking midfielder (Bruno or Lingard) who will get into the box with regularity, the advanced forward pinning the defensive line back and Sancho /Pogba on the left doing their thing.
Not sure if I should keep the wide midfielders though as I feel like they leave the back 3 exposed away from home.
But this clashes with the logic of using wingbacks here as in a possession tactic I wouldn't want players with dribble more hard coded.
So not sure how I can make these tactics better.
Also can't get Ronaldo to perform, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
And can anyone explain to me what the use tighter marking TI actually does? Because sometimes I want to make use of it but I'm never sure if I should.
In summary, I've had countless saves already (more than 7 I think) and in each one I'm struggling, especially in the Premier League.
Champions League hasn't been an issue for me strangely enough as I usually qualify top of the group, but I drop points to teams in the prem usually right after the UCL fixtures.
Also losing 2-goal leads against Brentford and Wolves away from home tells me something is wrong somewhere, especially when I've told the team not to get complacent at HT.
Any advice, especially from the experienced tactical maestros would be appreciated.
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16 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
For me, the simplest way to describe the mentality is - it affects everything but does not define your style of play. Which means that a low(er) mentality does not necessarily mean a defensive style of football, nor a high(er) one automatically means an attack-minded style.
Basically, the mentality is about risk (as you correctly noted). This risk involves passing style, player's (relative) positioning on the pitch, (un)willingness to go forward more, overall creative freedom and freedom of movement and so on.
If you are not sure, the safest option is to start with the Balanced and then work from there as you see fit. My personal approach - with top teams I prefer Positive and with all others Balanced.
But roles, duties and instructions - which are affected/adjusted by the mentality though - play a greater part in defining your style of play than the mentality does. Especially pay attention to the lines of defense and engagement, because these two can - and do - have a great impact.
Thanks for the detailed explanation and all your help.
I’ve gone with positive mentality and implemented the CWB and BWM and I’m seeing good results even though it’s just pre season.
Will provide an update once I’ve gone further into the season
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10 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
CWB is more attack-minded as a role and has greater freedom of movement (roaming), especially in the final third. I personally use CWB role only in narrow formations (like yours), i.e. when he is the only wide player on his flank. Otherwise, I don't see much point in it.
Kane can definitely play as a CF, but he is so good and well-rounded a player that he can virtually play any striker role. So it basically depends on which role fits best into your system. Anyway, give it a try and see
Thanks for that explanation, I’ll try out the CWB and CF roles and see how it goes.
One last thing, what’s your take on mentality? How do I decide on which one to use? Is it simply a case of risk level? Cause sometimes I’m unsure. I remember reading on here a while back that counter attack can be played even with positive or attacking mentalities and it has worked quite well for me in my last save. I have a separate 3-5-2 tactic which is quite potent when playing big teams.
So if I wanted a possession based style, would selecting a lower mentality be better?
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12 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
Yes. More precisely, the RWB on attack to provide attacking width on the right, since the formation is narrow, so there is none else to do that. CWB on support may also be an option, depending on what exact kind of wide support you want. In either case, the holding BWM is there to provide defensive cover. Of course, it can be a CM on defend if you notice the BWM being too aggressive and thus being drawn out of position.
Ok I’ll make those adjustments and see how it plays out.
Also, what do CWBs offer that is different from normal WBs? I’ve never really used that role in game before as not sure what it exactly does.
And do you think I would be better off making Kane a complete forward in this setup?
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15 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:
Okay, so it then looks like this:
DLFat
SS AMsu
DLPde BWMsu
WBsu WBde
CDde BPDde CDde
SKde
There are 3 tweaks I would make to this setup:
- support duty for the DLP
- defend duty for the BWM
- attack duty for the RWB
Can you figure out why? If you can, you are already on the right track.
Yeah the formation is like that.
Gonna take a few guesses... the RWB on attack to provide a runner from deep that can link up with Lo Celso?
And the BWM on defence to cover for the attacking runs of the RWB, with the supporting DLP contributing more further forward?
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13 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:
Wait a minute, is this the 3-4-2-1 with 2 DMs instead of CMs? I am asking because the DLP and BWM are shown as if they play in the same line as the WBs.
If so, then the formation is too conservative for a top team like Spurs, to begin with.
No it’s 3-4-2-1 with 2 CMs. Messed up the formatting
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Started a new save with Spurs a few days ago before I deleted it as results weren't great.
Tactic: 3-4-3
Kane (DLFat)
Son (SSat) Lo Celso (AMsu)
Reguilon (WBsu) Ndombele (DLPde) Hojbjerg / Sissoko (BWMsu) Doherty / Aurier (WBde)
Jose Gimenez(CDde) Alderweireld (BPDde) Ben White (CDde)
Andre Onana (SKde)
Team Instructions
In Possession: play out of defence
In Transition: counter press
Out of possession: High def line, High line of engagement, Get stuck in
Team Mentality: Positive
Player Instructions
Kane, Son & Lo Celso - More urgent pressing (i.e. split block)
Lo Celso - More direct passing
Summary
The tactic isn't terrible results wise as I was hovering around 5th - 8th place in the league.
It is quite solid defensively as Onana has recorded most clean sheets in the league with 12 from 20 played.
It's upfront where the problems are. Kane has 5 goals and 3 assists in 20 games whilst Son has 9 goals in 20 played. For world class forwards such as these the tactic isn't allowing them to perform at their optimum level imo.
I want Kane and Son to be the goal scorers, with Lo Celso and Ndombele providing the creativity in behind.
However I'm not sure if I've selected the correct mentality for the attacking style that I'm trying to play. From my understanding mentality = risk level so I selected positive as I don't want it to be purely possession based. Players shouldn't be afraid to take risks. Could the high mentality be causing players to rush chances or something?
Couple of questions:
1. If I wanted to modify this tactic to be more possession based what changes would people recommend? Should mentality be dropped lower?
2. Is the formation and roles and duties I've selected suitable for the attacking style of football I'm trying to play here?
3. Can someone explain to me what each mentality level does to other settings?
4. How do people approach parked buses and away games? I'm finding it difficult to break down teams that sit back deep with the tactic above and I struggle in away games aswell.
5. And lastly, how can I get Kane to score more goals? In the DLFsu role he drops deep to link the play but I saw he wasn't getting in the box enough so I changed it to DLFat but not really seeing much difference. Should I try complete forward role?
Looking to start a new save so happy to hear any ideas for how I can approach this better.
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'll implement some things mentioned and see whether results improve
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I thought about using a 3-5-2 but settled on 4-4-2 as I thought it would be better for transitions in a counter attacking tactic. I want the wingers to mainly be part of those transitions and in a 4-4-2 they start further up the pitch than in a 3-5-2 which would use wingbacks.
I also thought 2 solid blocks of 4 would be better for remaining compact in defence. I'll set up a 3-5-2 with a DM and see whether I can get some results with that. Thanks!
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Keep coming back to play this game as I've got time. Playing with Wolves and keep getting sacked midway through the season. I'm wondering whether my reputation has an effect on how quickly the board is to react to poor runs of results. I've got Sunday League rep and Continental C license i think. Picked the lowest rep and badge to make it realistic but I think it's making the game much harder as players don't really respond to team talks as well when you've got a low rep.
Anyway, here's how my last save has gone:
6 - 3 home loss against Chelsea was when I had Adama sent off in 1st half. Although they scored 3 or 4 from set pieces which was very annoying.
Tactic 1 - mainly against inferior opposition
Not had too much issue with this. I've had decent home results playing this formation. Only had a defeat against Sheffield Utd at home using it iirc. Got PI's for urgent closing down on front 3.
The 2nd tactic - counter attacking / use against superior opposition
This is the one I'm struggling with. I don't really know how to improve it. I play on positive or balanced mentality looking to hit teams on the break with Adama's pace. He's usually on W(S) with PI to get further forward but tweaked it recently. I change the full backs roles to wing back support depending on the opposition.
Neves has traits to try long range passes, switch ball to other flank
Also strikers struggle to score good amount of goals.
Defensively in open play I wouldn't say I'm conceding a lot.
I'm mainly conceding goals from set pieces. Liverpool game was very even until Matip scored 2 from Shaqiri corners.
1 - 0 loss against Man Utd at home was a long shot by McTominay which my GK looked like he was watching it going in.
1- 0 loss against Arsenal was a header by Ozil from a wide fee kick. He was unmarked.
I also score in these away games and before I even have time to react the opposition equalise immediately. Don't know how to really combat this.
I like playing this game but it's getting really tiresome. Any suggestions on how I can stop conceding set pieces? I've set my tallest CBs to man mark, got a few zonal and the rest are set to go back normally. Usually have the front two as edge of area and stay forward.
Also any ideas on how to improve the counter tactic would help.
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9 hours ago, zyfon5 said:
FM18 was notoriously bad for long shots you almost could never score from long shots. I might be in the minority here but i never feel long shots were a problem for me in this FM20. I can remember conceding only a few long shots when I play defensively meaning that most of the long shots are contested and didnt go in. It is important to contest long shots. Undefended long shots are deadly.
Check my counter attacking thread and other counter attacking thread in the tactics forum.
Funny because people complain that opponent players pass too easily at the back at the same time.
Fair enough. My experience with long shots is entirely the opposite of yours. Whenever I see the opposition laying it off on the edge of the area or even slightly further out I instantly expect it to be a goal no matter which player it is. And it happens to me regardless of the opposition.
I've had a look at a few threads on counter attacking here, especially the ones where Experienced Defender has replied. I've applied the principles imo but I'm not getting any success.
I initially struggled with pressing but once I tweaked the formation by making it more top heavy and adjusted PIs and TIs it was very effective.
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My overall impressions from FM20:
- Long shots way too OP - played against Man City with Wolves and the most infuriating thing I've ever had happen in FM was Rodri scoring a hatrick against me bearing in mind that these were all long shots way out of the box and iirc 2 of them were with his weaker foot and one was on the half volley. Rui Patricio is no slouch in the game so I just couldn't accept what I was seeing. Lost the game 6 -1 and I was at home. Even though it's City but still. In fact the amount of long shot goals in this version are wayyyy tooo many. This was not the way I remember previous FMs.
- Set pieces are also too OP - I'm seeing a lot of goals coming from corners and indirect free kicks (both for and against).
- Creating an effective defensive / counter attacking tactic is way too difficult - tried different formations and instructions without any success. And I wouldn't say I'm a novice at creating FM tactics. Even when defending narrow you end up conceding goals to long shots or shots from edge of the area even when you're supposedly congesting that area of the pitch.
- One thing I've always hated is the instant highlight from a corner or FK that you KNOW is gonna be a goal conceded as there's no context to what happened before the corner or FK. Although this has been there for years now.
- Where is the variation of goals? Very rarely do I see through balls get played in between the channels. I don't see players rounding the keeper very often or chipped goals, overhead kicks are probably something you see once in a blue moon. Only seen 1 cutback across the face of goal for a tap in and I couldn't believe my eyes. The rest of the time its shots into the side netting, goals from set pieces and crosses.
- The funny thing is that you can also easily tell when someone is gonna miss a 1v1. You have Diogo Jota making a mazy run, he dribbles past 2/3 defenders then left with the no one in front of him other than the keeper and then he either puts it wide or hits what looks like a tame shot straight at the GK
- Pressing works well, perhaps too well in fact - with the right combination of player roles, formation and instructions. You don't really see the effects of fatigue kicking in. No team can press effectively for a full 90 minutes not even Liverpool but the game isn't able to mirror this reality.
- You also get too many of those away games against relegation fodder where you dominate every single statistic and end up losing to a single goal (no surprises if its a set piece with no context) with way better players
I did 3 Wolves saves before I called it quits. It's like I cannot buy a win away from home in the Premier League no matter what I do. Yet at the Molineux you have Adama Traore who has rubbish mental attributes playing like a world beater at RWB every time. I don't get it.
I don't know if other people experience this but I personally always get the itch to play the latest FM after I haven't played in a really long while. There's a lot that's good about the game even though the above doesn't convey it. I love the granular control you get when it comes to selecting players, the scouting reports with the star ratings next to them are great and everything, planning transfers and loans is also fun but the match experience is not up to scratch imo.
I got hooked to FM back in 2010 and I think I played FM10, FM11, skipped 12 and played 13, the demo of FM15 and the FM 18 demo before skipping to 19 and then now 20. The match engine looks the same as it did back then, and I get the whole thing of SI not wanting to lose customers using old laptops but surely surely they've got to make the graphics better somehow? How is it realistic for a player to be running at full speed then stop dead and put in a cross from a standing position?
Anyway that's just my take on it. Don't get me wrong though for £30 a year the game is insane value and I put a lot of hours into it (although much less in the years gone by).
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5 hours ago, Gangor said:
Well you're going to have to make some compromises I think. Ideally for what you're looking at you want to be considering a H processor laptop with dedicated graphics - in other words a gaming class laptop. Something meeting the RAM and storage requirements is likely to be in the £1000 range. You might find a 9th gen system on clearance somewhere if you're lucky? If you're going current gen you'll get better value with AMD - their Ryzen 5's apparently offer better performance than 10th gen i7's for productivity tasks like video editing. If you're looking at last gen go with Intel if you can as AMD's 3000 series wasn't as good as Intel's 9th gen.
Thanks for the feedback mate.
After doing some more research I think I can compromise on the storage. I have a 2TB external which should do for now. So happy to get recommendations with 256GB SSD.
£1000 is a bit too much for me so happy to lower my expectations a bit. Last gen processor would be just fine aswell although I'd like to future proof as much as I can ideally. Also something Smurf posted that processor and graphics card are the priority kind of leans me towards the 10th gen ones but again happy to be recommended any 9th gens too.
For now my top picks are as follows:
Lenovo L340 (£699) - https://www.box.co.uk/81LK010TUK-Lenovo-IdeaPad-Gaming-L340-15_2834990.html#DetailTopASUS (£649) - https://www.box.co.uk/FX505DD-BQ121T-ASUS-TUF-FX505DD-BQ121T_2902781.htmlAcer Nitro 5 (£899) - https://www.box.co.uk/NH.Q7PEK.001-Acer-Nitro-5_2934862.htmlASUS (£899) - https://www.box.co.uk/FA706II-AU025T-ASUS-TUF-FA706II-AU025T_2860287.htmlHP Pavilion 15-ec1001na (£649) - https://ao.com/product/133w8eaabu-hp-laptop-black-75691-251.aspx
Any recommendations for 10th gen AMDs as you say they offer better performance than Intel counterparts?
Edit: Happy to up budget to £900 max. 512GB SSD is I think a necessity as my current machine is 512 GB and if i'm upgrading I might aswell get a machine with similar or more space on it. Just found another Asus that Smurf recommended which has a good processor, better than the Acer I'd spotted.
Edit 2: Looks like I'll be going for the ASUS FA706II or the HP Pavilion 15. Leaning towards the ASUS as it has 512GB SSD but going to try find a 512GB option for the HP.
Edit 3: Looks like i have a winner for now. The HP Pavilion is what I think I'll go for as most reviews indicate the ASUS botched the design as it apparently runs very hot and loud, as well as the fact that it thermal throttles.
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Looking for a new laptop. Budget is £600 but willing to go up to £800. Main requirements are:
- Plays 3D match engine well on medium or high settings
- Minimum 512GB storage, preferably SSD
- Has a good webcam positioned in the usual spot (i.e. directly in front of face) as I plan to create a lot of video content. Saw a nice Huawei laptop on Amazon that ticked pretty much every box but had a camera in such a weird position
- Good for video editing
- 8GB RAM as minimum, 16GB preferred
- 15.6" screen
- 10th gen processors preferred but not a deal breaker
Most important are highlighted in bold.
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[FM22] Struggling with Man Utd
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
Thanks for your suggestions, I'll check out that thread..
And I'll report back once I'm able to tweak to something that works