Pressing and (or) marking?

[Bahnzo]

These two are both instructions that frustrate me from time to time. Bear with me, this got long as I typed....

Let's start with marking. You have the option to "Mark Tighter" in the PI. Is this useful if you don't tell the player to mark a specific player/position? Or set a "Always Mark" in the OI's? And then, what does this actually do? Does the player stand closer to the player they are assigned to mark? Or do they just follow them around? 

An example: I'd like my WB(R) to mark the opposing AM(L). I set him to Mark Tighter and then mark that specific position. But then I often see during buildup play, my WB standing a good distance away from the player I assigned him to mark. Why? I often have "Step Up" set in the defensive TI's, but I still see my WB giving a decent amount of space to the AM I told him to mark. I assume marking attributes have something to do here, but this WB has a decent one, 14. 

Also: Does marking cause my player to follow their assigned mark everywhere? Because I notice they will sometimes get pulled out of position following their mark, which can be both good and bad depending on the circumstances. Is there something which decides how much my player will chase/follow? I've seen instances where my WB will chase their mark while they dribble across the field, but then arbitrarily stop and return to their defense position. 

Pressing: I've seen pressing described by @Rashidi and others as something which is governed by a trigger. So when a player with the ball (or receiving the ball) causes a trigger to fire, this causes a player (or players) to attempt a tackle/interception? Is that correct? So what does the pressing setting govern? Is it how far away they will come to attempt the tackle? Or is it how sensitive that trigger is? IE: a higher pressing setting will cause more tackling attempts? Or a combination?

And then, how does marking and pressing work together? Will a higher pressing cause tighter marking? Or does that only cause more trigger events?

Take the WB example I mentioned above. If I want to try to deny the AM the ball, how does one go about that? Tight Marking?
But in another example, if you just want to contain the AM and do your best to keep them from having too much impact, is it better to not TIght Mark, but tell your WB to mark (so they stand close or follow them) with heavy pressing? I know it depends on the skills of the AM as well. 

[Dotsworthy]

Marking is by default zonal so if you tick tight marking they will position themselves closer to the player that has entered their zone. I don't know about being pulled out of position because I haven't experienced it myself but it could be selecting the PI to mark a specific player? That would be the downside to man marking systems like what Bielsa experienced at Leeds.

A pressing trigger is when a player leaves their defensive position to actively take the ball off the opposing player. In real life you see this when teams try to pass it short out at the back or get caught dawdling on the ball. For me pressing is about winning possession whereas marking is about restricting space.

Higher pressing won't cause players to get more tight to their man. I don't know the specifics of how pressing triggers are activated but I would assume how sensitive the trigger. It's also governed by line of engagement/prevent short GK distribution so if you have a mid block or a low block your players will tend to wait until the opposition team has moved up the pitch. In the past I've used a lower line of engagement with a normal defensive line but very high pressing, to utilize the compacted space and hit the team on the break.

Personally if I wanted to contain an AM I would put someone in the DM position with either tight marking PI and/or tight marking OI.

Edited February 12 by Dotsworthy

[Rashidi]

18 minutes ago, Dotsworthy said:

A pressing trigger is when a player leaves their defensive position to actively take the ball off the opposing player.

A pressing trigger is the event that encourages a player to leave his position to take on an opposing player. An example - a loose first touch.

[Bahnzo]

2 hours ago, Dotsworthy said:

For me pressing is about winning possession whereas marking is about restricting space.

Thanks, that's a good way to think about both I suppose. 

2 hours ago, Dotsworthy said:

Personally if I wanted to contain an AM I would put someone in the DM position with either tight marking PI and/or tight marking OI.

A DM for an AMC, yes, but not for AM wingers. I want my WB to mark those players. I also don't think using both PI and OI tight marking for a player works to mark them any closer. In fact I think it pulls other players out of position when that player enters their "zone" and causes issues. Which is a big part of why I'm trying to understand how both of these work; I want to better setup my tactics to mark dangerous players w/o losing my defensive shape too much.  

Containing, I'm thinking would work best if you don't set Tight Mark, but simply mark (or maybe Never Tight Mark on the OI?) and then set a pressing PI. That's where I'm curious. Would you want to press them hard and attempt a tackle on *any* trigger, or press them less and wait for the best chance to dispossess them? My idea is to play off a dangerous winger and have your player try to block passes and crosses from them while trying to win possession when a good opportunity presents. 

[Bahnzo]

2 hours ago, Rashidi said:

A pressing trigger is the event that encourages a player to leave his position to take on an opposing player. An example - a loose first touch.

This is one point I'm curious about. Is it causing a player to leave his position, or is it a trigger to cause a tackle attempt?

As in, how high you set the pressing bar is how sensitive that trigger is? Like how much of a loose touch is required for that trigger to fire? Or does it simply control how far from that player an opposing player will attempt the tackle when the loose touch occurs?

[Dotsworthy]

8 hours ago, Bahnzo said:

Thanks, that's a good way to think about both I suppose. 

A DM for an AMC, yes, but not for AM wingers. I want my WB to mark those players. I also don't think using both PI and OI tight marking for a player works to mark them any closer. In fact I think it pulls other players out of position when that player enters their "zone" and causes issues. Which is a big part of why I'm trying to understand how both of these work; I want to better setup my tactics to mark dangerous players w/o losing my defensive shape too much.  

Containing, I'm thinking would work best if you don't set Tight Mark, but simply mark (or maybe Never Tight Mark on the OI?) and then set a pressing PI. That's where I'm curious. Would you want to press them hard and attempt a tackle on *any* trigger, or press them less and wait for the best chance to dispossess them? My idea is to play off a dangerous winger and have your player try to block passes and crosses from them while trying to win possession when a good opportunity presents. 

I think that's just the inherent risk of marking or pressing, if you get it wrong either way you open up space for the opponent. 

I would just try it and see, there is a going to be an element of trial and error in setting up your defence. I'd also think about your/the AIs formation and the quality of the two players as well. I don't like to tight mark on wingers as they tend to be really fast and good at evading their marker, sometimes I set tight marking on the centre backs and midfielders and let the wide players and striker press more. You also don't have to mess with any of these settings, if I'm struggling against a wide player I'll often change my WB to a FB and that does the trick.

I like these articles from the FM blog, they are pretty good: 

https://www.footballmanager.com/the-byline/using-opposition-instructions-marginal-gains

https://www.footballmanager.com/the-byline/mastering-press-fm23