Dealing with the AI hard pressing you?

[Bahnzo]

This is the one thing that frustrates me the most. And has for years. I just can't figure out how to deal with the AI pressing and marking my team hard. I never play top teams, so I don't have the players whom can pass and dribble around it. And I accept when I play those top teams it's going to be a very difficult game.

But even playing lower table teams causes the same problems. They relentlessly press AND man mark me out of the game and I just don't know how to deal with it. I'm a better team with better players and yet it shuts down my team every time. It's getting to the point I'm ready to just chuck the game in the trash as it feels I don't have any options to counter it. 

Help?

[Bahnzo]

Here's an example. Look at how the AI has every player of mine tightly marked. I have my keeper set to throw it long, and he actually has excellent throwing attribute, but he's forced to kick it deep and as a consequence, I never have possession. I honestly don't know how to deal with this, and it's every damn game. 

 

[Cloud9]

22 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

Here's an example. Look at how the AI has every player of mine tightly marked. I have my keeper set to throw it long, and he actually has excellent throwing attribute, but he's forced to kick it deep and as a consequence, I never have possession. I honestly don't know how to deal with this, and it's every damn game. 

 

Look for the space on the football pitch. They have 7 players in your half, a nice long ball to a quick forward will see them scrambling. 

• Pace to your frontline to stretch the opposition
• Press resistant players

You can post your tactic itself on specific changes to make if you're looking to play through a press.

[Bahnzo]

3 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Look for the space on the football pitch. They have 7 players in your half, a nice long ball to a quick forward will see them scrambling. 

• Pace to your frontline to stretch the opposition
• Press resistant players

You can post your tactic itself on specific changes to make if you're looking to play through a press.

A long ball from the keeper? Because I might have some fast forwards, but they aren't winning a header from a long kick. And the keeper here just hoofs it forward 90% of the time as they have everyone covered. 

What are "press resistant" players?

[Cloud9]

22 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

A long ball from the keeper? Because I might have some fast forwards, but they aren't winning a header from a long kick. And the keeper here just hoofs it forward 90% of the time as they have everyone covered. 

What are "press resistant" players?

Try passing into the space then. The hoofing can be addressed, but again it would require the tactic.

On press resistant players: it's players who are at an advantage when pressed. Good anticipation/dribbling/composure/balance/first touch etc. are good attributes to look for. Primarily I'd want this on my DM as he will be the main pressure valve to the back line in a high press. Playing through the press is much more difficult than shutting up shop, refusing to come out and play, and going direct (see Liverpool's tactical transition away from the pure gegenpress in the last few years).  

The goalkeeper hoofing the ball is actually quite good based on the screenshots, you have a numerical advantage outside of your own half and any time you win it you will be in for a goal scoring opportunity. A technically adept goalkeeper is a plus but I would focus more on the players up front: an aerial presence in the amc or striker strata are two easy outlets against for teams looking to press high like this. 

Squad building is likely the underlying issue if these situations are cropping up. A handful of pacy wide players & a capable spearheading forward should be thriving in these situations if your squad is able to soak up the pressure. 

Edited January 13 by Cloud9

[Dr Naysay]

You've identified the issue that your players are being marked out of the game and your GK is left with no options, but you haven't made any changes to resolve this issue. This version of FM is more than ever a version that requires on the fly adaptions and tweaks to counter opposition threats.  I don't know your roles, duties and TIs but going from what I can see they have 9 players in that screenshot(one touching the halfway line and one whose legs you can just see) to your 6 outfield players. That leaves 4 of your players up against their 1 defender which is overkill if you can't get the ball to those players through the opposition press but it presents some beautiful opportunities.

@Cloud9 has mentioned it but there is a lot of space that can be exploited you just haven't used it optimally. Now you have identified the space how will you use it? You have a lot of ways to do that but it will be dependent on the players you have that decides what you might do but the end goal is to start moving those opposition players around to create space to exploit the real estate they are leaving wide open at the back.

SPACE

 

 

Again I haven't seen this game play out but looking at their shape you want to start using some of the space by taking some of that overkill up top and dropping a player or two in to any or all of these positions so that the opposition suddenly have a lot to think about. If you stagger your CMs in to space and set the correct tempo you can play through their lines sharply if you have technically gifted players, or you can put your most gifted passer in to an area where he has the most time to ping a ball to a pacey striker or winger to take advantage of the space they have left open at the back.

If you have switched to a 4132 or a 4312 you might want to focus play down the right and/or left flanks(as counterintuitive as that sounds) which will bring players to work together on one side side of the pitch drawing opposition defenders and creating space for the the far sided midfielder or Wing-Back but again this is all dependent on the players you have available but there are plenty of remedies to resolve this situation. 

 

 

The principles are ostensibly the same. 

 

[Bahnzo]

12 hours ago, Dr Naysay said:

 

Thanks for taking the time. Yes, there's space out there, but the problem is how to get the players there? Like I said, the keeper, even tho I have him set to "Throw it long" is just kicking it downfield in these situations, which I then lose possession most the time. 

In this situation, I'm playing a 343. My back 3 are all BPD, so I guess I either need to change them to wide defenders or give them the "Wider" instruction to move the outside two into space? Typically, I'd think the GK should be throwing the ball to the defender you see I have highlighted with his name showing, but he doesn't. And he's a very good BPD with excellent attributes who does well here. It's first a matter of getting the GK to make the right play. And my GK is probably my best player, so there should be no issue with his decisions...he's also very good when you see his attributes. 

I'll post the tactic I'm using, but really it's not the specific tactic, as this is a problem I always run into no matter what I use. When the AI decides to press and mark like this, it really requires a change that I'm not sure how to make. It's easy to say "get different/better players", but this team finished 6th in the Bundesliga last season and I've improved it quite a bit with the transfer funds I received from that. But now I'm languishing in 14th place and struggling. With the same tactic and a better team. Simply because the AI flipped a switch and now presses and marks as it does. 

I also have no idea how the AI manages to mark as tightly as I showed there. I've tried to do it myself, with the mark tightly instruction and also telling each player to mark a specific player or position, and I *never* have been able to replicate how the AI manages to get the marking as tight as I showed.

[Cloud9]

33 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

Thanks for taking the time. Yes, there's space out there, but the problem is how to get the players there? Like I said, the keeper, even tho I have him set to "Throw it long" is just kicking it downfield in these situations, which I then lose possession most the time. 

In this situation, I'm playing a 343. My back 3 are all BPD, so I guess I either need to change them to wide defenders or give them the "Wider" instruction to move the outside two into space? Typically, I'd think the GK should be throwing the ball to the defender you see I have highlighted with his name showing, but he doesn't. And he's a very good BPD with excellent attributes who does well here. It's first a matter of getting the GK to make the right play. And my GK is probably my best player, so there should be no issue with his decisions...he's also very good when you see his attributes. 

I'll post the tactic I'm using, but really it's not the specific tactic, as this is a problem I always run into no matter what I use. When the AI decides to press and mark like this, it really requires a change that I'm not sure how to make. It's easy to say "get different/better players", but this team finished 6th in the Bundesliga last season and I've improved it quite a bit with the transfer funds I received from that. But now I'm languishing in 14th place and struggling. With the same tactic and a better team. Simply because the AI flipped a switch and now presses and marks as it does. 

I also have no idea how the AI manages to mark as tightly as I showed there. I've tried to do it myself, with the mark tightly instruction and also telling each player to mark a specific player or position, and I *never* have been able to replicate how the AI manages to get the marking as tight as I showed.

Ah, okay yea there's some core concept problems here to address:

• First of all your frontline are entirely passengers, three forwards and all on attack to boot. This creates a huge gap between your defensive unit and attacking unit and is a big part of why you can't play out.
• Secondly your midfield is overrun w/out assistance from the frontline and w/ a SV(a) + DLP(s) combo.
• Thirdly,  there's no counter attack on in the TIs, which you need to apply pressure to the opposition w/your current setup. Your team is getting penned in.
• Fourth, your sweeter keeper is on support. This, along with being a sweeper keeper, will have him take more risks which it sounds like you don't want. At minimum go with a SK(d), but it sounds like you just want a standard goalkeeper.
  • Telling him to distribute to the backline specifically can cause a long ball when they are marked. 

Edited January 13 by Cloud9

[Bahnzo]

14 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

Ah, okay yea there's some core concept problems here to address:

• First of all your frontline are entirely passengers, three forwards and all on attack to boot. This creates a huge gap between your defensive unit and attacking unit and is a big part of why you can't play out.
• Secondly your midfield is overrun w/out assistance from the frontline and w/ a SV(a) + DLP(s) combo.
• Thirdly,  there's no counter attack on in the TIs, which is like the only way you'll apply pressure w/your current setup. Your team is getting penned in.
• Fourth, your sweeter keeper is on support. This, along with being a sweeper keeper, will have him take more risks which it sounds like you don't want. At a minimum go with a SK(d), but it sounds like you want a standard goalkeeper.

We have to start with the keeper. Because that's where the main issue is, which is not having any possession when he starts things. I want him to be a SK so he can cycle possession. Should i try him as a SKd with "fewer risks"? He needs to be making his initial pass to an open player. 

I don't play counter attack as that leaves me much to open to being countered myself. I'm following what I see @Rashidi talk about, which is trusting your players to counter when appropriate so you don't find yourself out of position. It's why I also have my front three on attack, so they will make forward runs. If I don't, they aren't enough attack minded. 

[Cloud9]

50 minutes ago, Bahnzo said:

We have to start with the keeper. Because that's where the main issue is, which is not having any possession when he starts things. I want him to be a SK so he can cycle possession. Should i try him as a SKd with "fewer risks"? He needs to be making his initial pass to an open player. 

I don't play counter attack as that leaves me much to open to being countered myself. I'm following what I see @Rashidi talk about, which is trusting your players to counter when appropriate so you don't find yourself out of position. It's why I also have my front three on attack, so they will make forward runs. If I don't, they aren't enough attack minded. 

If you're happy with the tactical choices then little tweaks will be beneficial:

• I would do a deep dive into the PIs of your players. Adjust passing meters and add take more risks on the players you'd like to see transition the ball up the pitch. 
  • Whenever I have wide BPD in a back 3, asking them to dribble more can be really nice.
• SK(D) will help with the goal keeper issue as will removing the TI I mentioned. 
  • On other role tweaks that will help, if you want an attack role front 3 like this, a SV(s) will help your DLP(s) not get overrun. 
  • I would consider a DM(s) + SV(s) combination. 
  • FYI: Take Fewer Risks I would avoid, as that can lead to him booting it as well. Just a passing meter change and the reduced duty on the role should do nicely. 
• If you want an all attack role front three I would still suggest some role changes.
  • An off footed winger on attack I would seriously consider as a replacement to one IF(a). The role will give you great movement on a midblock counter style and he can help out a bit as well. 
  • If you want to keep the IF's, then I would recommend swapping at least one to an IF(s). I think three true forwards is a bit overkill, and you'll want some dynamism to your attacks.

If the attacking three are choices to preserve the defensive structure, I would say you're already leaving a lot for your defensive unit to do in terms of soaking up pressure. Imo this leaves you fairly exposed whenever the opponent is in possession, not just when your counter turns over, and to struggle in transitions.

• I would personally run this tactic w/a double holding pivot, one wingback on attack, WTM(s), Off footed winger (a), and AF/Poacher leading the line w/positive mentality/direct passing. 
  • I think these changes would give you more options to beat a press/transition the ball forward and be more defensively stable, without sacrificing your frontline threat. 

Just some things to think over when you're making additional tactical changes  If you like how specific things are working as is, feel free to cherry pick around the advice that suits how you'd like to see your team play. 

Edited January 13 by Cloud9

[Bahnzo]

Thanks I'll give some thought and make some tweaks and report later. 

I do think I'll change the two IF to support roles and then set the wingbacks to attack. That might provide better balance. 

[ibrahim.akbyk]

I was reading again @Rashidi’s book. I saw something that might interest you. You should have a look. 

Its from his book:

 

[Bahnzo]

So this is what I changed to. It didn't really help much. I had 3 final games of the season, 2 against teams being relegated, and I drew both, 1-1 and 0-0. Both at home also I think. Awful. 
 

The instructions you see are what I changed to for the last game, which was against Dortmund, so I bunkered in and tried to play counter attack. Got beat 2-0. 2 shots, none on target. 

I'm giving up on playing a 343. It was great when the AI didn't take me seriously as a newly promoted team, but once they did it no longer worked. WIth better players I'll try it again, but for the next season or so, it's back to the 4231. 

The 343 was very nice with the WB's bombing up the field. It seems to me it should work well as a Route One style offense as the pacey WB's can serve that function of getting the ball upfield and then crossing or passing to the playmakers. 

Edited January 14 by Bahnzo

[Bahnzo]

5 hours ago, ibrahim.akbyk said:

I was reading again @Rashidi’s book. I saw something that might interest you. You should have a look. 

Its from his book:

 

 

 

I've tried something like that. I have a decent DLP which I played as such, but it was rare that he played direct, over-the-top balls to the forwards. I have him training the "Tries Long Balls" trait, so we'll see if that helps.

I do have some pacey strikers/wingers, but even with the Passing set to "Slightly More Direct" or even "Much More Direct", it seemed rare to see my players try to make those passes out of the back. I guess I need to go look at some tactics and see how they set up a Route One style and try that. 

None of this is how I want to play, however. I want to play a patient possession style offense eventually. It's a matter of getting the right players. 

[Andros]

A different suggestion: maybe have a play around with the goalkeeper distribution? Instead of distributing to Centre backs when under the high press try a few different options based on what you see in game.