FM23 - Any consistent way to get high potential youth kids tagged as 4-5 stars?

[godzilu]

Hey guys

Got myself a team of scouts all 20 in their potential stat, but after some seasons I noticed they tag a lot of high potential youths (checked with the ingame editor) as 3-4 stars, therefore I was skipping them. Is there any consistent way to make the scouts more effective?

I expected a lot of false positives, i.e. low potential kids being tagged as 5 stars, but I really did not expect the opposite, i.e. 185 PA to get tagged as 3 stars by staff with 20 in potential.

Thank you

Edited August 19, 2023 by godzilu

[Muttley84]

First of all, you should walk slowly away from the stars system, that is both not precise enough and dependent on your current squad at the club (and probably what your scouts are doing).

Then I suggedt you spend some time yourself in looking through the scout reports and players attributes and make yourself the decision who are worth keeping or not. You also need to check their personality, determination etc.. cause the potential is just a ceiling and most often not all of them reach it.

[godzilu]

7 hours ago, Muttley84 said:

First of all, you should walk slowly away from the stars system, that is both not precise enough and dependent on your current squad at the club (and probably what your scouts are doing).

Thing is, if it's dependent on my squad, 185 can't get 3 stars, while 150 gets 5 stars. It should be viceversa. I am not saying all 180+ were tagged with too little stars, but there were too many 170+ PA tagged 4 or less stars.

Also, I know what I am doing, I probably have a few tens of thousands of hours in FMs, since it was CM, I don't even remember the name it started with lol. Used to milk the hell out of youths making most of them perfectionists with 18+ determination  Even messed up at least on year in university because I was totally addicted, still remember a power outage breaking my Cordoba save and me going crazy, since back then saves weren't as they are today. 

I miss the old days, since the youth development is the only thing that attracts me anymore after so many years. 

7 hours ago, Muttley84 said:

is just a ceiling and most often not all of them reach it.

If most often they don't reach their potential it's because the manager is bad, or the player has very low determination/personality, and somehow you can't get him through his youth to a good determination/personality, which with the current system is much harder. But I don't have a problem with reaching their potential, I somehow have a problem with scouting, but this year I started playing very late, since I didn't have enough time until the summer.

I will make some tests when the new game is released, and always show the PA with the ingame editor and see if I can get a system where I don't miss big PA players.

Edited August 20, 2023 by godzilu

[Muttley84]

1 hour ago, godzilu said:

will make some tests when the new game is released, and always show the PA with the ingame editor and see if I can get a system where I don't miss big PA players.

Takes away the realism a bit for me, as irl no manager can accurately know how a 16yrs old will develop in 3/4 seasons. But interested to see if you find a fix for this, keep us posted. Cheers!

[godzilu]

Hm, depends. I do understand false positives where lower potential players receive 5 stars. But, I don't understand false positives from high level scouts which tag high potential players as average players. Not sure it works that way IRL, it seems to me that only the first false positives happen. A lot of course. 

Tho I have to make tests with edited scouts to be sure I am not missing something, maybe it works fine but I did something inadequate that I am missing. FM24, edited scouts with 20 in potential, current, adaptability and determination, then 20 first three, 1 in det, then 20 in first two, 1 in the others, etc, scout the same season same players and see results. Maybe I am going to alter other scout stats too to see what happens.

Edited August 20, 2023 by godzilu

[ShaunG95]

I think ultimately the star system is respective of your current star players and how they compare in certain attributes. Say for example, you're PSG and have Mbappe, Messi and Neymar, any player coming through in their position would struggle to be close to 5 stars because they all have alien attributes in certain areas that most newgen players will never reach.

[godzilu]

The star system is definitely related to your players, but even if you end up having a team of superstars, you still get 5 star potential 16-17 years old even if they are not 190 like Mbappe, and they are 175 180. 

But, I can't say anything 100% since I've never tested properly the new scouting/rating system since it changed a few years ago. I will do it this autumn, planning multiple tests, tactics tests, scouting tests. Depends on my time, scouting will be a priority. For tactics, I want to compare vanilla tactics against each other and see which one fairs better in which situation, that will require tho quite a lot of automation prepping, time will tell if I will have time. 

I was curious if anyone had the time to devise a strong scouting system based on tests and observations, googling for such things returned no results.

Edited August 22, 2023 by godzilu

[ShaunG95]

8 hours ago, godzilu said:

The star system is definitely related to your players, but even if you end up having a team of superstars, you still get 5 star potential 16-17 years old even if they are not 190 like Mbappe, and they are 175 180. 

But, I can't say anything 100% since I've never tested properly the new scouting/rating system since it changed a few years ago. I will do it this autumn, planning multiple tests, tactics tests, scouting tests. Depends on my time, scouting will be a priority. For tactics, I want to compare vanilla tactics against each other and see which one fairs better in which situation, that will require tho quite a lot of automation prepping, time will tell if I will have time. 

I was curious if anyone had the time to devise a strong scouting system based on tests and observations, googling for such things returned no results.

In many ways, I feel like scouting is often hit and miss regardless. I don't think any system will necessarily be fool-proof and I think that adds to the realism, scouts can get it wrong in real life. There is never a guarantee with scouting - I actually find that less and less players even fulfill their potential on this years game.

[godzilu]

I am not looking for a system that gives you 100% results. I am looking for a system where max potential ability scouts don't miss the top PA, of course, together with the false positives.

I quote from the OP: "consistent" and "effective", "expect false positives".

Low determination and bad personalities didn't fulfill their potential in other years either. 195 PA lazy arse with 4 determination as a youth means a lot of hard work to be able to make him fulfill his PA, it will take a miracle. Injuries will break the players too. Bad facilities, bad coaches, bad training schedules, playing time, etc, there are countless factors that will contribute on missing PA.

I am a 100% micromanager, absolutely nothing is delegated or put on auto or general, be it training, scouting, transfers, B team coaches, players, nothing. Pre season is hell each year managing A, B and youth team. 

PS: I don't like managing small teams anymore, because it takes away 75% of the game for many years, until you end up big in the top league, and you can afford scouts, B and youth teams, staff, etc. In my opinion managing small teams is much more easier than doing a big club, it's way less work.

Edited August 22, 2023 by godzilu

[ShaunG95]

14 minutes ago, godzilu said:

I am not looking for a system that gives you 100% results. I am looking for a system where max potential ability scouts don't miss the top PA, of course, together with the false positives.

I quote from the OP: "consistent" and "effective", "expect false positives".

Low determination and bad personalities didn't fulfill their potential in other years either. 195 PA lazy arse with 4 determination as a youth means a lot of hard work to be able to make him fulfill his PA, it will take a miracle. Injuries will break the players too. Bad facilities, bad coaches, bad training schedules, playing time, etc, there are countless factors that will contribute on missing PA.

I am a 100% micromanager, absolutely nothing is delegated or put on auto or general, be it training, scouting, transfers, B team coaches, players, nothing. Pre season is hell each year managing A, B and youth team. 

PS: I don't like managing small teams anymore, because it takes away 75% of the game for many years, until you end up big in the top league, and you can afford scouts, B and youth teams, staff, etc. In my opinion managing small teams is much more easier than doing a big club, it's way less work.

As I said initially though, I feel like those top PA players may get missed every now and then because of such large discrepancies between attributes relative to existing players in your squad. I am merely hypothesizing myself by suggesting that but I do feel as though it's a logical explanation. 

[godzilu]

Possibly. Tho that's a matter of CA, not PA. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by godzilu

[godzilu]

Regarding players not reaching their PA, my current save, players between 23-32 are pretty close to their max CA. Even the under 23 are not far, but of course, younger they are, more space between CA and PA there is. I don't play with CA and PA usually, but I am testing to see what happens with scouting, although until FM24 I won't do any thorough test with identical setups during same season.

For CA, it's a matter of many factors, but all the factors are under your control, bar injury proneness. Araujo will be sold because he is injury prone, although he is a great defender and in the first seasons didn't have any injury. I only keep injury prone players IF they are top 5 best in their position in the world AND they are Perfectionist, Professional, Driven, Model Pro or Model Citizen, with at least 16 Determination. All others, bye.

De Gea is an exception, he starts the game messed up, but he is a great second GK. 

I am pretty sure I can reach CA for any player that fits my bill ( Determination and Personality are very important ) before 25 years old, IF I train them for at least 4 years. That includes players starting with bad determination and personality, but are young enough so I can mentor and change their personality and determination through the years.

Edited August 22, 2023 by godzilu