Need some input on tactic

[sigurd2resen]

Hi!

In third season with FC St. Pauli at the moment, and struggling in Bundesliga.

Was promoted in my first season, and probably was surfing on the "first season"-wave, and somehow made it into 5th place and EL in my first BL-season.

Second year is much tougher, and I'm really struggling to make my tactic work, even struggling against what should be weaker sides.

 

Any inputs on the tactic?

PS: Playing FM22.

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by sigurd2resen

[Johnny Ace]

Where are you on the media prediction now? Just asking so we can gauge how the opposition view you 

[sigurd2resen]

Media prediction is 10th, and I'm actually 7th at the minute, but that is just pure luck. Played 11 matches so far.

xG-table has me 15th, so I'm overperfoming. 

 

This can also be because I had a high turnover of players from first to second BL-season, and that teams around me are adapting to my tactics. 

Just wondering if you guys see some clear tactical adjustments I could try. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by sigurd2resen

[Johnny Ace]

You're doing great then 

19 minutes ago, sigurd2resen said:

Just wondering if you guys see some clear tactical adjustments I could try. 

It's not a shape I'm overly familiar with but if it's got you to where you are now, there's no point in drastic changes

The TI's all look fairly solid for an attacking style, maybe vs the weaker teams lose the Passing into Space since they won't leave as much, slow the Tempo down to just standard to give your players a  bit more thinking time and lose the Narrow as they'll most likely be defending narrow and it'll give you chance to stretch them out a little 

 

[sigurd2resen]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

You're doing great then 

It's not a shape I'm overly familiar with but if it's got you to where you are now, there's no point in drastic changes

The TI's all look fairly solid for an attacking style, maybe vs the weaker teams lose the Passing into Space since they won't leave as much, slow the Tempo down to just standard to give your players a  bit more thinking time and lose the Narrow as they'll most likely be defending narrow and it'll give you chance to stretch them out a little 

 

Ah, thanks! Good advice. Will try this out!  

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, sigurd2resen said:

Ah, thanks! Good advice. Will try this out!  

From a tactical perspective I would look to add an attacking run from midfield. A right footed MEZ(s) instead of the BBM would provide a bit of forward movement and help hit that right side space which is a little neglected. You could do that quite easily by swapping Adli and Louza. 

Another area to look at is the holding DM role. You've got a great screen of 3 midfielders in front of him: you might consider dropping the playmaker into that role and looking for someone who can ping the ball around the park from deep. I'd recommend trying out a REG in the pocket. 

Flipping the formation to a 4-3-1-2 could also work quite nicely. You could stick Adli in the hole behind the striker pairing and unlock him as an AP a bit. I think 3 DMs with an SV would provide a bit more stability, while giving you similarly workman like roles from BBM/CAR. 

If it's not broke though, don't worry too much. Just some food for thought 

[sigurd2resen]

47 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

From a tactical perspective I would look to add an attacking run from midfield. A right footed MEZ(s) instead of the BBM would provide a bit of forward movement and help hit that right side space which is a little neglected. You could do that quite easily by swapping Adli and Louza. 

Another area to look at is the holding DM role. You've got a great screen of 3 midfielders in front of him: you might consider dropping the playmaker into that role and looking for someone who can ping the ball around the park from deep. I'd recommend trying out a REG in the pocket. 

Flipping the formation to a 4-3-1-2 could also work quite nicely. You could stick Adli in the hole behind the striker pairing and unlock him as an AP a bit. I think 3 DMs with an SV would provide a bit more stability, while giving you similarly workman like roles from BBM/CAR. 

If it's not broke though, don't worry too much. Just some food for thought 

This is very helpful, as always @Cloud9! 

Definitely something I will experiment with. 

 

This is why I love this forum, thank you!

[sigurd2resen]

50 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

I think 3 DMs with an SV would provide a bit more stability, while giving you similarly workman like roles from BBM/CAR. 

Btw, did you mean SV and DM(D) in DM slots, for instance? 
And AP in CM slot?

[Bobby Sunday]

How do you know your tactic is the cause of your disappointment? You can lose games by picking a player who is tired or because you gave a wrong answer to a journalist. With new players there could be a drop in team cohesion or tactical familiarity. What is morale like? However, like someone else said, you are actually doing well. You can either stay at the club and make incremental gains over several seasons or target a job at a better club. From your description I think you are being limited by the quality of your players.

[Cloud9]

6 hours ago, sigurd2resen said:

Btw, did you mean SV and DM(D) in DM slots, for instance? 
And AP in CM slot?

I would put an AP(s) in the AMC strata, I like how they can break down the opposition from the final third.

As for three DMs, if you're on FM22 the banks will adjust differently for you than w/the pivot changes from FM23. I'd try out a SV(s), DLP(s) in the middle, and a DM(s). Three support roles should help to close that gap a little. 

• SV will give a forward run, DLP some ball playing potential from your defensive third + a holding DM (esp w/no BPD), and on the DM(s) I'd stick "close down more" + "dribble more." As long as a WB(a) is overlapping the DM(s), that should work pretty well and help you avoid a double SV which can feel a little exploitative of the ME  
• Two playmakers can work nicely together (esp in different thirds of the pitch).
• Those changes should help with transitions via ball carrying/passing I think and give you some real defensive muscle in the middle of the park. The advanced AP should be in prime position to play in one of the strikers, or a player making a run from deep.

On a side note: 

• Is Moffi capable of being a CF(a)? I don't mind a double (a) striker partnership w/the current setup, but CF are hard to come by and Moukoko is a star boy. You might look to set things up where Moffi is still trying to score but is doing the hard work for Moukoko in the pairing.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Cloud9

[sigurd2resen]

Wow, @Cloud9! Thanks for that thorough analysis.

Really appreciate you taking your time - this is really helpful.

 

I like your ideas, but I already played out the season (almost), and I used SV(S) -- DLP(d) -- SV(a) in the DM-slots. 

This worked wonders. I also used AM(A) in the AMC strata. Both my AM's have performed very well here.

But you say that double SV´'s is exploiting the match engine?

 

1 hour ago, Cloud9 said:

Is Moffi capable of being a CF(a)?

Well, this is something I've changed back and forth over the season, and he has been quite inconsistent in this role. 

My thought was to not have two STs doing the same thing. But the different traits will make them work differently anyways.

Will change to AF and try out - thanks for the tip!

Edited July 12, 2023 by sigurd2resen

[sigurd2resen]

3 hours ago, Bobby Sunday said:

How do you know your tactic is the cause of your disappointment? You can lose games by picking a player who is tired or because you gave a wrong answer to a journalist. With new players there could be a drop in team cohesion or tactical familiarity. What is morale like? However, like someone else said, you are actually doing well. You can either stay at the club and make incremental gains over several seasons or target a job at a better club. From your description I think you are being limited by the quality of your players.

Yes, of course. There is a lot of factors to consider in the early struggles.

The reason for posting was just to get you guys to analyse my tactic, in case something could be changed for the better - which it totally did, much thanks to @Cloud9's thorough and well thought out suggestions.

Now I'm competing for the last CL-spot, while being competitive in both domestic cup and Conference League! (with the help of some smart January-signings )

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, sigurd2resen said:

Wow, @Cloud9! Thanks for that thorough analysis.

Really appreciate you taking your time - this is really helpful.

 

I like your ideas, but I already played out the season (almost), and I used SV(S) -- DLP(d) -- SV(a) in the DM-slots. 

This worked wonders. I also used AM(A) in the AMC strata. Both my AM's have performed very well here.

But you say that double SV´'s is exploiting the match engine?

 

Well, this is something I've changed back and forth over the season, and he has been quite inconsistent in this role. 

My thought was to not have two STs doing the same thing. But the different traits will make them work differently anyways.

Will change to AF and try out - thanks for the tip!

Ah! Shoot sorry, don't mean to undermine your successes, very glad to hear it's working.

• Some roles can be quite strong in the game, and I frequently see "game breaking" tactics where people use multiples of them intentionally since the AI struggles with deal with them. IWB(a), SV(a), AF are quite powerful in general, but if you stumble into something working well for you, I think that's great 

Agree on diversity in roles being quite nice for a tactic, and mirrors how most teams set up IRL. Perhaps a PF(a) for Moffi to pair with Moukoko as an AF could be a good alternative to cater to his physical profile. 

• If you end up running a AM(a), Moffi could also play in a PF(s) role. I just like to make sure there are two primary goal threats in my tactics. 

Hope your CL push goes well !

Edited July 12, 2023 by Cloud9

[sigurd2resen]

8 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Ah! Shoot sorry, don't mean to undermine your successes, very glad to hear it's working.

No worries, my man! I'm just curious to pick your brain! Learning a lot. 

But it makes sense. AI is struggling to pick up the deep runs from DM -  and I love it, hehe. 

 

8 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Perhaps a PF(a) for Moffi to pair with Moukoko as an AF could be a good alternative to cater to his physical profile. 

• If you end up running a AM(a), Moffi could also play in a PF(s) role. I just like to make sure there are two primary goal threats in my tactics. 

Good ideas! Will try out!
Do you think double AF's, or AF - PF(A), + AM(A) is overkill?

Have worked most of the times, but that is three men constantly running into the box. 

Felt that the AMs was too close to the DMs when I had it on AP(S). 

 

8 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Hope your CL push goes well !

Well, after adjusting my tactic to include some of your ideas - I ended up on a solid 3rd place in Bundesliga. 

Also in final of both Conference League and DFB Cup! 

 

Thank you for saving my tactic, dude!  

And also thanks, @Johnny Ace! 

Edited July 12, 2023 by sigurd2resen

[Cloud9]

9 hours ago, sigurd2resen said:

No worries, my man! I'm just curious to pick your brain! Learning a lot. 

But it makes sense. AI is struggling to pick up the deep runs from DM -  and I love it, hehe. 

 

Good ideas! Will try out!
Do you think double AF's, or AF - PF(A), + AM(A) is overkill?

Have worked most of the times, but that is three men constantly running into the box. 

Felt that the AMs was too close to the DMs when I had it on AP(S). 

 

Well, after adjusting my tactic to include some of your ideas - I ended up on a solid 3rd place in Bundesliga. 

Also in final of both Conference League and DFB Cup! 

 

Thank you for saving my tactic, dude!  

And also thanks, @Johnny Ace! 

3 on attack seems like a lot.

Thinking it over a little, PF(s) is what I'd go w/ for Moffi 100%. It gives "hold up the ball" which the role doesn't have on attack, lets him utilize his strength, and his height is a nice compliment to Moukokos small stature. You want Moukoko to be the finisher as much as possible and the support role will help to serve him. I'd stick "pass it shorter" on Moffi in that role as well. 

I like the idea of using an AMC(a) role instead of the AP. He'll carry over his traits from being a playmaker to shape the role, or you can play around w/his passing PIs to get him to be a little more creative. He'll give you a consistent goal threat/creator from a little deeper, which should work nicely with the front two. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Cloud9