Re-creating Kompanyball IRL

[Lemon_Head]

Hey guys I've decided to attempt to recreate Vincent Kompany's Burnley tactic since I haven't seen anyone trying to recreate it so far. This is just my interpretation of the tactic based off of research and I would love to see everyone's opinions and suggestions on ways to make it more "Kompany" like.

I'm not 100% sure if Kompany likes to start in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 but normally the attacking shape is a 4-2-3-1 so I've made two different tactics to try to emulate the attacking shape. 

Tactic #1

Tactic #2

 

Now for some questions and thoughts I have for these tactics.

• Role of the striker I think Jay Rodriguez plays as a DLF-A but I could be wrong
• Role of Jack Cork I think DM-D makes the most sense but I can see him being put as a Anchor but I'm not sure.
• Role of Cullen, I think its best if he plays as a DLP on support so he can drop deep and make that back 5 passing square with the defense and Cork while being able to progress the ball up front. However, I can see a RPM working for him also but idk if that's how he plays in IRL.
• Defense TI's : I made the defense Team Instructions very basic because I don't really know how Burnley defends I'd love to know more about it from you guys.
• In Possession TI's : I think you can turn off be more expressive and dribble less but I'm currently experimenting with it to see if it can create the high passing, possession based tactic Kompany wants 

Let me know what you guys think? Lets make this tactic together!!

[Rub Me]

Been waiting for someone to recreate the Kompany tactic. As a Burnley fan myself but far from a tactician, I've been wanting to use it for ages. What are the possession stats like?

[Rub Me]

Also, we have noticed Cullen has been getting forward a lot more when we attack but hes also the one who picks the ball up from the keeper/CB's.

[Lemon_Head]

1 hour ago, Rub Me said:

Also, we have noticed Cullen has been getting forward a lot more when we attack but hes also the one who picks the ball up from the keeper/CB's.

I see then maybe I should change him into a RPM or add "Dribble More" to hi DLP role.

[Lemon_Head]

1 hour ago, Rub Me said:

Been waiting for someone to recreate the Kompany tactic. As a Burnley fan myself but far from a tactician, I've been wanting to use it for ages. What are the possession stats like?

I will let you know I haven't fully tested it out yet. However, there are still some tweaks that im working with such as the attacking width, tempo, and passing. I'm trying to get that 60% average possession just as Burnley does. Let me know what other observations you have seen. It's awesome to get some opinions from Burnley fans!

[Rub Me]

14 hours ago, Lemon_Head said:

I see then maybe I should change him into a RPM or add "Dribble More" to hi DLP role.

He doesn;t really dribble with the ball, he get's forward off the ball. But, having said that, my view from where my seat is isn't the greatest for noticing tactical intricacies. Be interesting to see what other people have noticed. 

[Lemon_Head]

2 hours ago, Rub Me said:

He doesn;t really dribble with the ball, he get's forward off the ball. But, having said that, my view from where my seat is isn't the greatest for noticing tactical intricacies. Be interesting to see what other people have noticed. 

hmmm that's a good point! I'm not sure which midfielder role that would make a player move forward off ball maybe BBM?

[Cloud9]

12 hours ago, Lemon_Head said:

hmmm that's a good point! I'm not sure which midfielder role that would make a player move forward off ball maybe BBM?

Go carrilero !

[BadAss88]

21 hours ago, Lemon_Head said:

hmmm that's a good point! I'm not sure which midfielder role that would make a player move forward off ball maybe BBM?

Segundo Volante? 

[Lemon_Head]

4 hours ago, BadAss88 said:

Segundo Volante? 

Sounds good for the 4231 system I'll give it a try

[Lemon_Head]

12 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Go carrilero !

alright sounds good. How far does the Carrilero go up the pitch?

[Cloud9]

27 minutes ago, Lemon_Head said:

alright sounds good. How far does the Carrilero go up the pitch?

between boxes, just not into them, they won't dribble to much and won't roam like a BBM.

[Shirts]

Burnley fan here. Kompany ball has been amazing to watch this season, particularly following it's progression throughout the season as the team has 'clicked' / young players have developed. 

I am very excited to see us improve the quality of the squad in the summer and take on the PL next season. 

Here is an interesting tactical write up from the opening day of the season against Huddersfield:

https://olioconnell.substack.com/p/vincent-kompanys-new-look-burnley

What I will highlight is that build up play shape generally changes on a match by match basis, and even within a match, depending on what the opposition are doing. 

The article I listed above was when Maatsen was being used as a flying left wing back, yet for most of the season this hasn't been the case as Zaroury came in as a typical Pep like touchline hugging winger - this led to Maatsen playing a more 'Kyle Walker like' reserved left back role, forming a back 3 in the build up phase. 

Yet on other occasions, Maatsen will play as an inverted full back in midfield, Cullen can drop into a back 3 on the right during the build up and the right back inverts, forming a 3-3-4... here is a tactical analysis from our dominant win at Norwich last weekend:

https://www.pinkun.com/news/23300927.norwich-city-tactical-analysis-burnley-championship-defeat/

Then when chasing games in the second half, Kompany can often change to a 4-4-2/4-2-4 with Benson/Zaroury on the wings and generally Tella as a pressing forward (his pressing is superb), alongside a deep lying forward in Rodriguez/Barnes. 

It's not always when chasing games, though, for example when we went to Old Trafford in the cup in December, it was with a 4-4-2 structure but this time with Brownhill played as a pressing forward, due to his impressive pressing abilities - we had a lot of high turnovers that evening and were unfortunate not to score. 

The tempo is definitely slow and favours short over long, always happy to go back to the keeper Muric (who is outstanding with his feet), but also happy to go more direct on occasions with switches of play - I have attached an image which shows the speed of play compared to others in the Championship:

Here is another brilliant article by the Analyst which discusses if Kompany could be Pep's future replacement, with quite a bit of tactical discussion: https://theanalyst.com/eu/2022/12/vincent-kompany-burnley-manchester-city-manager/

A video of a 27 pass goal scored earlier in the season where all 11 players touched the ball: 

Another useful tactical explainer done by Tifo on YouTube: 

 

I don't have this years FM but could be tempted so I can give this a go. I think the hardest part will be getting Cullen to drop into a RCB type role in the build up as I don't see how FM can do this. 

Also, in previous editions when I've tried to create this style of play, there has always been issues with getting the wingers to STAY WIDE - has this been resolved? It's pretty much key to this football. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Shirts

[Cloud9]

On 05/02/2023 at 12:15, Lemon_Head said:

Hey guys I've decided to attempt to recreate Vincent Kompany's Burnley tactic since I haven't seen anyone trying to recreate it so far. This is just my interpretation of the tactic based off of research and I would love to see everyone's opinions and suggestions on ways to make it more "Kompany" like.

I'm not 100% sure if Kompany likes to start in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 but normally the attacking shape is a 4-2-3-1 so I've made two different tactics to try to emulate the attacking shape. 

Tactic #1

Tactic #2

 

Now for some questions and thoughts I have for these tactics.

• Role of the striker I think Jay Rodriguez plays as a DLF-A but I could be wrong
• Role of Jack Cork I think DM-D makes the most sense but I can see him being put as a Anchor but I'm not sure.
• Role of Cullen, I think its best if he plays as a DLP on support so he can drop deep and make that back 5 passing square with the defense and Cork while being able to progress the ball up front. However, I can see a RPM working for him also but idk if that's how he plays in IRL.
• Defense TI's : I made the defense Team Instructions very basic because I don't really know how Burnley defends I'd love to know more about it from you guys.
• In Possession TI's : I think you can turn off be more expressive and dribble less but I'm currently experimenting with it to see if it can create the high passing, possession based tactic Kompany wants 

Let me know what you guys think? Lets make this tactic together!!

Kompany's style is pretty similar to peps, but he's given almost entirely free reign to his front line to attack (where as peps front three as very structured in stretching the width of the pitch). 

To replicate this try to leave the front free roles fairly blank/stick roam on and tell them to take more risks? Not sure how well this would play out on FM (usually you need higher quality players for success like this) but that seems to be the basis of play.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Cloud9

[Cloud9]

12 hours ago, Shirts said:

Burnley fan here. Kompany ball has been amazing to watch this season, particularly following it's progression throughout the season as the team has 'clicked' / young players have developed. 

I am very excited to see us improve the quality of the squad in the summer and take on the PL next season. 

Here is an interesting tactical write up from the opening day of the season against Huddersfield:

https://olioconnell.substack.com/p/vincent-kompanys-new-look-burnley

What I will highlight is that build up play shape generally changes on a match by match basis, and even within a match, depending on what the opposition are doing. 

The article I listed above was when Maatsen was being used as a flying left wing back, yet for most of the season this hasn't been the case as Zaroury came in as a typical Pep like touchline hugging winger - this led to Maatsen playing a more 'Kyle Walker like' reserved left back role, forming a back 3 in the build up phase. 

Yet on other occasions, Maatsen will play as an inverted full back in midfield, Cullen can drop into a back 3 on the right during the build up and the right back inverts, forming a 3-3-4... here is a tactical analysis from our dominant win at Norwich last weekend:

https://www.pinkun.com/news/23300927.norwich-city-tactical-analysis-burnley-championship-defeat/

Then when chasing games in the second half, Kompany can often change to a 4-4-2/4-2-4 with Benson/Zaroury on the wings and generally Tella as a pressing forward (his pressing is superb), alongside a deep lying forward in Rodriguez/Barnes. 

It's not always when chasing games, though, for example when we went to Old Trafford in the cup in December, it was with a 4-4-2 structure but this time with Brownhill played as a pressing forward, due to his impressive pressing abilities - we had a lot of high turnovers that evening and were unfortunate not to score. 

The tempo is definitely slow and favours short over long, always happy to go back to the keeper Muric (who is outstanding with his feet), but also happy to go more direct on occasions with switches of play - I have attached an image which shows the speed of play compared to others in the Championship:

Here is another brilliant article by the Analyst which discusses if Kompany could be Pep's future replacement, with quite a bit of tactical discussion: https://theanalyst.com/eu/2022/12/vincent-kompany-burnley-manchester-city-manager/

A video of a 27 pass goal scored earlier in the season where all 11 players touched the ball: 

Another useful tactical explainer done by Tifo on YouTube: 

 

I don't have this years FM but could be tempted so I can give this a go. I think the hardest part will be getting Cullen to drop into a RCB type role in the build up as I don't see how FM can do this. 

Also, in previous editions when I've tried to create this style of play, there has always been issues with getting the wingers to STAY WIDE - has this been resolved? It's pretty much key to this football. 

Great time to be a Burnley fan, looks like they've got a real up and coming manager on their hands. Amazing considering he is just 36 years old. He's got that mix of tactical ability and man management.

If you play on maximum width (like a pep team would) your wingers will be out there. If they're inverted wingers and you want them wider go into the PI's. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Cloud9

[lied90]

On 10/02/2023 at 10:41, Shirts said:

 

Burnley under Dyche in comparison:

[Cloud9]

On 05/02/2023 at 12:15, Lemon_Head said:

Hey guys I've decided to attempt to recreate Vincent Kompany's Burnley tactic since I haven't seen anyone trying to recreate it so far. This is just my interpretation of the tactic based off of research and I would love to see everyone's opinions and suggestions on ways to make it more "Kompany" like.

I'm not 100% sure if Kompany likes to start in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 but normally the attacking shape is a 4-2-3-1 so I've made two different tactics to try to emulate the attacking shape. 

Tactic #1

Tactic #2

 

Now for some questions and thoughts I have for these tactics.

• Role of the striker I think Jay Rodriguez plays as a DLF-A but I could be wrong
• Role of Jack Cork I think DM-D makes the most sense but I can see him being put as a Anchor but I'm not sure.
• Role of Cullen, I think its best if he plays as a DLP on support so he can drop deep and make that back 5 passing square with the defense and Cork while being able to progress the ball up front. However, I can see a RPM working for him also but idk if that's how he plays in IRL.
• Defense TI's : I made the defense Team Instructions very basic because I don't really know how Burnley defends I'd love to know more about it from you guys.
• In Possession TI's : I think you can turn off be more expressive and dribble less but I'm currently experimenting with it to see if it can create the high passing, possession based tactic Kompany wants 

Let me know what you guys think? Lets make this tactic together!!

https://theathletic.com/4171916/2023/02/11/burnley-style-manchester-city-kompany-guardiola/

This article might be of interest to you. It's pay walled because it's The Athletic but you can grab a trial to access it. Some great deep dive statistical analysis on Burnley's style of play this year. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Cloud9

[Rub Me]

Another masterclass from us yesterday. 

[Shirts]

2 hours ago, Rub Me said:

Another masterclass from us yesterday. 

Yes, arguably the performance of the season. Muric made a new keeper role for FM I think with the positions he took up! Not sure I’ve seen a keepers average position outside the actual box. 
 

Typical 4-1-2-2-1 as FM would label it yesterday. Deep lying striker, left winger Zaroury allow to cut inside from very wide, Tella more an inside forward, Cullen deep lying playmaker and the two 8s… not sure. Both full backs can invert in the build up but play wide when we are playing in their half. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Shirts

[Rub Me]

Its just a joy to watch mate. One of the preston commentators on radio said we were playing football from 2030. 

[Lemon_Head]

Thank You everyone for all your inputs and suggestions!!

Decided to change the tactic around based off of everyone's comments. I changed both WB into WB(s) with "Sit Narrow" PI on both of them so they can potentially invert. Not sure if that's the best idea for them or to put them on IWB(s). Changed Cullen's role to a DLP after playing him as a CAR for a while. I just think that DLP helps Cullen drop deep to collect the ball like he actually does some games but in others, he likes to stay a little bit forward which would be better from him to be a CAR. The biggest change I've noticed is changing the mentality to Balanced instead of Positive. Balanced keeps the ball from progressing to quickly and I realized it prevents players hoofing the ball long which Kompany doesn't like of course. You do play at an absolute snails pace as a team and wouldn't recommend it when your a goal down or trying to get a goal. I'm not sure if Tella plays as an IF on attack or support but since he just got a hat trick yesterday, maybe he's better off in attack. I am also experimenting with Cork playing as an Anchor instead of a DM since it seems like he plays deeper than I thought. Let me know what you guys think?

I realized that Kompany likes to change his tactics based off of the opposition and the player he utilizes for example, Tella was played like n IF while Benson normally plays like a Winger. Let me know what you guys think!

[Cloud9]

21 hours ago, Lemon_Head said:

Thank You everyone for all your inputs and suggestions!!

Decided to change the tactic around based off of everyone's comments. I changed both WB into WB(s) with "Sit Narrow" PI on both of them so they can potentially invert. Not sure if that's the best idea for them or to put them on IWB(s). Changed Cullen's role to a DLP after playing him as a CAR for a while. I just think that DLP helps Cullen drop deep to collect the ball like he actually does some games but in others, he likes to stay a little bit forward which would be better from him to be a CAR. The biggest change I've noticed is changing the mentality to Balanced instead of Positive. Balanced keeps the ball from progressing to quickly and I realized it prevents players hoofing the ball long which Kompany doesn't like of course. You do play at an absolute snails pace as a team and wouldn't recommend it when your a goal down or trying to get a goal. I'm not sure if Tella plays as an IF on attack or support but since he just got a hat trick yesterday, maybe he's better off in attack. I am also experimenting with Cork playing as an Anchor instead of a DM since it seems like he plays deeper than I thought. Let me know what you guys think?

I realized that Kompany likes to change his tactics based off of the opposition and the player he utilizes for example, Tella was played like n IF while Benson normally plays like a Winger. Let me know what you guys think!

I'd leave "dribble less" off and do that in the players PI's, it'll also impact the front lines tendency to dribble as is.

With both wingbacks sitting narrow you might find yourself struggling to find some width, if so 1 IWB, 1 WB (normal) might be a successful balance.

 

[Lemon_Head]

6 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I'd leave "dribble less" off and do that in the players PI's, it'll also impact the front lines tendency to dribble as is.

With both wingbacks sitting narrow you might find yourself struggling to find some width, if so 1 IWB, 1 WB (normal) might be a successful balance.

 

Thanks I just realized a cool trick to do with the wingbacks. You put them as FB(s) with the PI's stay wide when team has the ball and then when player has the ball to cut narrower. That way it stimulates how the wingbacks start out wide and then cut in once they have the ball like what they do in real life

[MrCap1tanoGR]

have anyone  kompany's replication after winter update?