Help with 4-2-3-1 Tactic

[Shade1988]

Hello guys,

I am struggling pretty hard with my Arminia Bielefeld side. I started managing them because they don't have some fancy budget or some great players and wanted to build a team in a few seasons that can fight for European competitions. As far as it goes for now, i will get fired :). I have tried few tactics and all of them failed and i would like you to help me to fix the last one if its possible.

Thank you in advance

[Experienced Defender]

With a combination of short passing + low tempo + work ball into box + low team mentality + 2 playmaker roles one behind the other, you essentially have created a possession overkill in terms of instructions. 

At the same time, your setup of roles and duties is not quite possession-friendly, especially with a target man up front as well as your selection of roles and duties on the right side. 

Regardless of a tactical style, a target man rarely works well when played on attack duty as a lone striker. 

In short, you first need to decide what style of football you want your team to play and why. And whatever style that is, you also need to make sure your players are suited for such style of play in terms of their attributes.

[Shade1988]

3 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

With a combination of short passing + low tempo + work ball into box + low team mentality + 2 playmaker roles one behind the other, you essentially have created a possession overkill in terms of instructions. 

At the same time, your setup of roles and duties is not quite possession-friendly, especially with a target man up front as well as your selection of roles and duties on the right side. 

Regardless of a tactical style, a target man rarely works well when played on attack duty as a lone striker. 

In short, you first need to decide what style of football you want your team to play and why. And whatever style that is, you also need to make sure your players are suited for such style of play in terms of their attributes.

Thx for quick response. Well, i originally intented to play counter attacking football because my team is the worst in whole league when it comes to almost any attribute excluding jumping.

This was my original tactic and it did ok for a while than i didnt win in over 10 games so i changed it.

I usually play with a bit better teams and i manage to make possession based tactic that works but havent tried a weaker side like Arminia in years.

I wanted to create a style where i sit deep, defend solidly, narrower and try to win it on a Counter (but i know its hard with a Target man , specially that mine is pretty slow and old and cant move really good).

 

[Experienced Defender]

49 minutes ago, Shade1988 said:

I wanted to create a style where i sit deep, defend solidly, narrower and try to win it on a Counter

Well, neither of your two tactics looks like a counter-attacking tactic. First, counter-attacking football is defensive by definition, which means that defensive solidity and compactness must be the first priority. Secondly, counter-attacking football relies on fast attacking transitions (besides defensive solidity), which cannot be achieved under a low team mentality, much less when coupled with a low tempo. Thirdly, while you can play a defensive style of football in a top-heavy formation like 4231, it's obviously not an optimal formation for such playing style. 

My first suggestion for you is to consider a more appropriate formation. For example, the 4411 could be a good choice, because it's essentially the "poor man's" version of 4231. 

The next step is to create an optimally balanced setup of roles and duties with emphasis on defensive solidity. In a counter-attack-minded 4411 system, such a setup could look like this (for example):

PFat

APat

IWsu    CMde   CMsu    Wsu

 

FBat    CDde   CDde    FBsu

SKde

Now come team instructions that suit this setup and the intended style of play:

mentality - balanced 

in possession - slightly more direct passing

in transition - counter, roll it out, distribute quickly

out of possession - standard D-line, lower LOE, get stuck in

That's an example of a tactic you can start with. Then watch matches carefully and make small, gradual and logical tweaks based on your observations until you get what you want.

[Shade1988]

8 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Well, neither of your two tactics looks like a counter-attacking tactic. First, counter-attacking football is defensive by definition, which means that defensive solidity and compactness must be the first priority. Secondly, counter-attacking football relies on fast attacking transitions (besides defensive solidity), which cannot be achieved under a low team mentality, much less when coupled with a low tempo. Thirdly, while you can play a defensive style of football in a top-heavy formation like 4231, it's obviously not an optimal formation for such playing style. 

My first suggestion for you is to consider a more appropriate formation. For example, the 4411 could be a good choice, because it's essentially the "poor man's" version of 4231. 

The next step is to create an optimally balanced setup of roles and duties with emphasis on defensive solidity. In a counter-attack-minded 4411 system, such a setup could look like this (for example):

PFat

APat

IWsu    CMde   CMsu    Wsu

 

FBat    CDde   CDde    FBsu

SKde

Now come team instructions that suit this setup and the intended style of play:

mentality - balanced 

in possession - slightly more direct passing

in transition - counter, roll it out, distribute quickly

out of possession - standard D-line, lower LOE, get stuck in

That's an example of a tactic you can start with. Then watch matches carefully and make small, gradual and logical tweaks based on your observations until you get what you want.

Thank you very much for a deep insight and explanation.  I will try with this as a base and try adding some things on the way if i feel necessarry .