Tweak my 4-2-3-1 into an unstoppable beast

[etcetera]

I think this is my first post on these forums and it looks pretty bad asking for help hehe, but I've been reading these boards for the past few months, but so far haevn't been able to get what I need.

I started the game playing a deep 4-2-3-1 in Milan utilizing the sheer number of midfield destroyers with a front 4 of selfish ********. Worked quite well.

Now i'm in 2016, still managing Milan, but playing a standard 4-2-3-1. My trophy cabinet consists of 5 Scudettos, 3 Italian Cups, and 2 Champions League trophies. My point isn't to brag but it's to say I have been winning stuff with a team that's expected to win stuff.

Here's my team and attributes

In comparison with other teams in the league

So as you can see, my team is defensively lacking, midget sized, and physically inept. On the flip side, they're smart, determined, work well together, and are incredibly technical.

Despite being a bunch of footballing geniuses, my team is incredibly stupid when it comes to finding space and off-the-ball movement. It seems to me once everyone takes their positions in the formation, there isn't much movement. The main problem is with my '3'. My AMR/L tend to stay wide and get in the way of my advancing full backs, often giving me the situation of 2 players side by side out wide. My AMC does pretty much the same thing but with my lone striker, he stays central, doesn't receive the ball much, and most of the time becomes useless.

My tactic is heavily based around SFraser's 'Meet the System' with a few modifications here and there. My goal is to produce attacking (not necessarily possession based) football utilizing a technical and intelligent front 4 with superb off-the-ball movement, supported by attacking fullbacks and 2 central holding midfielders who recycle possession and fuel the attack.

So I guess in a nutshell, if someone could advise me on how to:

1. Play my AMC as a classic number 10 - a playmaker who drifts deeps or towards the wings to set up play, with the license to come into the box late to provide an extra goal threat.
   
2. Configure my AMR/L to come inside more often so they don't clash with my fullbacks and the AMC who might be drifting towards that side
   

Here are some games where I've struggled to dominate the opposition and also my tactic if someone wants to pick its brains.

http://www.mediafire.com/?jz0lc3l356szw

Sorry I couldn't find the attach function!!

Thanks very much y'all

[PeeKay]

The really simple answer to your 2 questions is ... space. The formation has has a front 4 players plus the full backs trying to use the same space.

1) For AMC you want a Treq and that will give you drift into space player but not great for a high pressing game.

2) For AMR/L you want either Inside Forward or Advance Playermaker as they both cut in with high roaming and creativity.

The problem I have is, that you are already have successes and over a number of years so you must already know the advice that I have given?

[brussels]

I don't know if this is the kind of advice you want but if you want AMR/L cutting inside, imho it's best to use a 451 tactic.

I have played the 4231 only with DMs (4231 deep), and I have had best results with AMR/L staying wide, or at least using one of them hugging the touchline, otherwise it's a mess, you have AMR AML AMC and ST getting in each other's way inside the box, in the hole and even when building counters.

You may also want to drift slightly sideways the ST and AMC, because that's another problem with this tactic, way too often the AMC and ST get into each other's way.

I have tried dropping the AMC into midfield, as an attacking MC (Mid-att or AP-Att) but I don't like the result, usually I have problems to build attacks and I get too attacked and closed into my half. I have even tried to use a MC as BWM to press the opposition midfielders (I didn't have an AMC with good destroying characteristics), and it was not very useful neither.

With the ST and AMC slightly drifted I liked it better, but I use it only sometimes.

With the 451/433 you have a lot of space that the AMR/L can use (and also freeing space for wingbacks) and on top of that the MCs usually tend to arrive late into the opposition area or stay in the hole to support attack, with the DM helping defend potential counters and recycling possesion.

[kevin3]

1. You want to clear the space in the "hole" totally for your AMC -try a mid-line mentality, mixed runs from deep and roaming ticked. The set-up of your others players is important too. You want your striker to stay high and occupy the centre-backs (runs from deep often, no roaming), you want your two holding midfielders to stay deep and feed your no.10. For this, try giving them mixed through balls, short passing, lowish mentality and creative freedom.

2. If your full-backs are playing high up the pitch and you don't want them to clash, then you want your wingers to play higher aswell. Try runs from deep often, roaming ticked, a higher mentality and reduce the width.

[furiousuk]

I use a similar system to SFraser for my backup formation but it's not a plug-and-play tactic, what shouts and adaptations do you make based on game situations?

In my opinion to consistently play 'good' football you need to tweak and adapt so that you're always harnessing your strengths and pinpointing the oppositions weakness. This is doubly so with a smaller, smart and technical team - with power boys you can, to some extent, just enforce your superior physicality on any team you play so tactics are in part secondary to personnel but with a smart technical team your tactical choices really become essential.

As for advice for your specific questions I think the best advice has already been given but it'll be more/less effective against different opposition.

[etcetera]

The really simple answer to your 2 questions is ... space. The formation has has a front 4 players plus the full backs trying to use the same space.

1) For AMC you want a Treq and that will give you drift into space player but not great for a high pressing game.

2) For AMR/L you want either Inside Forward or Advance Playermaker as they both cut in with high roaming and creativity.

The problem I have is, that you are already have successes and over a number of years so you must already know the advice that I have given?

Indeed my problem is space. I have a hard time creating any sort of decent football when the defense is set. In real football, you'll see players moving about once the defense is set (like barcelona) and definitely in basketball too, I'm just having trouble getting it working on the game.

I have tried the trequartista role as you've suggested, and like you mentioned he doesn't do much defensively. So what I've done is, given him TQ like instructions but on an attacking AMC role to get him acting like a TQ offensively, but still contributing a little on defense.

And yes both of my wide midfielders are set as attacking IFs. They come inside on the ball beautifully, especially when playing them 'wrongfooted', but they don't come inside when off-the-ball nearly as much.

I don't know if this is the kind of advice you want but if you want AMR/L cutting inside, imho it's best to use a 451 tactic.

Yeah I've been thinking about trying that. The only thing stopping me is the sheer quality of AMC youngsters I'm getting...

1. You want to clear the space in the "hole" totally for your AMC -try a mid-line mentality, mixed runs from deep and roaming ticked. The set-up of your others players is important too. You want your striker to stay high and occupy the centre-backs (runs from deep often, no roaming), you want your two holding midfielders to stay deep and feed your no.10. For this, try giving them mixed through balls, short passing, lowish mentality and creative freedom.

2. If your full-backs are playing high up the pitch and you don't want them to clash, then you want your wingers to play higher aswell. Try runs from deep often, roaming ticked, a higher mentality and reduce the width.

Thanks mate I'll give that a try.

I use a similar system to SFraser for my backup formation but it's not a plug-and-play tactic, what shouts and adaptations do you make based on game situations?

I tend not to make too many. Generally shouts don't work since I've made manual modifications to individual sliders though team sliders are untouched. If pato or fierro start up front I generally leave them isolated up front to exploit their pace and finishing. If Rossi starts up front then I want him more reserved and contribute to linkup play. Against narrow formations (eg narrow diamond, 4-3-1-2 etc), or formations lacking in the wings (3-4-3, 3-4-1-2 etc) I exploit the wings, play wider, get the ball forward and play my wingers on their correct side. Against dangerous 4-4-2s (eg tottenham) I like to use more reserved fullbacks. And against genuinely top opposition like Barcelona I'd start the game more cautiously if away or in a cup final. When I'm leading against good counter attacking teams, I retain possession and pull fullbacks back, and when leading against top teams especially in cup games, I drop deep, pull fullbacks back, and counter down the wings with correct sided wingers.

Thanks for advice guys!!

[brussels]

Yeah I've been thinking about trying that. The only thing stopping me is the sheer quality of AMC youngsters I'm getting...

I had the opposite problem, the game has developed a few outstanding MCs but I didn't come across any top regen AMCs, and I'm not a big fan of re-training, so I was kinda forced to switch to a 451 and in the process I got to like it. I had tried to use the 451 defensively in the past but I wasn't successful, but with an attacking style it's being demolishing.

Btw... have you tried using 3 AMCs instead of AMR/L and AMC?

I have seen the AI use that system a couple of times, maybe if you use the sided AMCs as IFs you get the result you wanted.

[etcetera]

Btw... have you tried using 3 AMCs instead of AMR/L and AMC?

I have seen the AI use that system a couple of times, maybe if you use the sided AMCs as IFs you get the result you wanted.

I've tried it here and there in previous versions of FM. I found it kinda lacking defensively as your side AMCs don't track opposition fullbacks. You can remedy the problem by man marking the fullbacks with your AMCs but i found it too much work for comparable success, so stopped doing it. In my current game my wingers don't track back much so i guess it's worth a shot. thanks

[brussels]

I have the same problem with my AMR/L giving up chasing the opp. FB sometimes, which on the other hand leaves them free of mark to initiate a counter attack if I win the ball... 50%-50% situation.

Honestly I rely more on the work-rate and aggression of my FBs CBs and DM so it doesn't really bother me, I prefer the AMR/L to be ready to counter. Sometimes if the opposition have a talented winger or attacking wing-back I move sideways the DM position to provide a bit extra defensive support. I did this with the 451 and also with the 4231deep

In your case as you use both MCs as DLP/d you may want to drop 1 of your CMs to the DM position if you feel a flank is being exposed more than the other.

The problem with this is that you have perfectly covered the opp. star player but then the other winger who happens to be playing nervously and have the stats of baloo the bear makes a perfect run+cross which ends up in the back of your net.

So do not make too big expectations, try to think of it more of a way to reduce the % of risk, even weaker sides will make you chances and you will concede a goal now and then, there is no system that will guarantee you lots of goals and a clean sheet.