Setting up a basic 4-4-2.

[Neil Train]

I'm really struggling with this. although i've had success with some more exotic formations, most notably a 4-3-3/4-1-2-3 with a midfield of 3xdestroyer who could nonetheless pick out a pass, i'd like to be true to my favourite club, and their strength is wingers.

now, the problem i face is getting quality balls to/thru to the front men. with my 3 destroyer/1xcreative amc systems it was easy, the balls were played from centrally and were either to the feet of the strikers or defence splitting thru balls.

with wingers, i notice that angled balls are possible but they're not defence splitting, they tend to leave the striker quite wide and with a lot to do. too much in the case of one.

let me explain my front 2. they're pretty non-negotiable. the first, an existing player, is just a finisher. technically he's not greatly gifted but has great stats for shooting, off the ball, anticipation, decisions. he's always in my other systems been a poacher.

the second has guile. technique 18, flair 19, dribbling 16. i want to get the ball to his feet where frankly he can do as he chooses.

so as you can see one striker would be great receiving thru balls that he can finish off. certainly no dribbling. the second can sit deeper and receive the ball and turn defences, or aim provider to his strike partner.

crosses are no good for the striker with guile, ok he's got a good touch but this is best employed running with the ball. yes, he can get on the end of crosses but i dont want to base my attacking play simply on crossing.

would wingers cutting inside enable them more to attempt balls to/thru the centre?

now my central midfield partnership. i'm v.tempted to have 1 destroyer as most teams would employ these. the second should be more creative but do i maybe want to set him as primary playmaker to ensure we try passing the ball through the middle? would this then make 2 wingers more redundant?

i know the 442 is meant to be the most basic of formations but it's the one conversely that gives me the most headaches.

i'm trying to think how teams would play irl to utilise the strengths of my different forwards. after all, getting the ball to them is the way to win games.

i'd welcome all advice on how, typically, to set up this basic 442 to score goals.

thanks, neil

[furiousuk]

For the striker pairing I'd go with Deep Lying Forward-Support and Advanced Forward-Attack (or possibly Poacher).

I'd have the wingers as standard wingers-attack. A back-up that might suit your criteria is to have their wide play set to cuts inside and have a right footer on the left and a left footer on the right - I don't know if you can set the wide players to be advanced playmakers but that sort of set-up would be good for them i.e. lots of through balls, cross default or rarely, RWB default, RFD often. This 2nd option should see them drift in field and more advanced than your midfielders resulting a kind-of 4222, although with the DLP it may end up as a narrow 4231, I've used this sort of setup on occasions and have been quite pleased with it.

Central midfielders are always a bit more difficult. I haven't got FM fired up and I can't remember the exact roles for the 442 I sometimes use. I think it may be Central Midifelder-Defend and Advanced Playmaker-Support (it's definitely defend & support). I did have some success with ball-winning midfielder-defend but the high closing down isn't really what I wanted as I got better players. I make sure that in my team instructions I set the playmaker to none as I don't want a specific player to be a playmaker (I want whoever is the best playmaker in any given situation to be the playmaker).

I'd have the FB's as Full Backs on Automatic so that they shift between def/sup/att as you change strategy. WBs have through balls set to often and, unless you have very good decision makers and ball players they can be a tad wasteful as WBs. FB's will still get forward and if you use wingers set to cuts inside then the 'Look for Overlap' shout will work well (possibly combined with play narrower).

I keep the CB's on Central Defender-Defend.

I do make sure that my MCd is behind the FCd so that I can get some better passing lines going on.

The 442 is so heavily used that there are so many examples from RL on how to play it, you can really play so many different ways. FM doesn't replicate formation-morphing too well but you can still shift a 442 into a 4213, or 4411, or 4231, or 41311 or ??? with differing instructions.

[Neil Train]

thanks for taking the time to reply. i've noticed if i shift the wingers into AML and AMR slots i can give them advanced playmaker roles which really suits. have yet to try it out but i'm hopeful this is what i'm looking for.

i'm just confused as to how in RL wingers create chances that aren't crosses. will be watching when the season restarts!

[furiousuk]

By staying deeper your 'winger' is looking to encourage the FB forward and out of position, this would leave space for a striker to run into or possibly for your own FB to overlap and lose his marker. If wingers aren't crossing then they either have to be a goal threat or use through balls or lay-offs to create chances. If you opt for the latter then you have to make sure that they have enough options to pass through balls to, they should have both strikers & each other to pass forward and possibly one/both midfielder/s to lay off laterally to as well as a FB or overlapping FB.

I've always thought the PPM 'plays 1-2s' would help here, especially if they are a small, quick guy working with a slightly deeper, creative striker.

[Neil Train]

well i think pushing them into AML/AMR positions and setting to advanced playmakers cutting in and trying thru balls will really suit

[Jimmyrh94]

Hey. I've been reading this thread as i am actually looking to make a 4-2-2-2 tactic of my own but am having a lot of trouble.

@FURIOUSUK

i noticed you said to play the wingers in attack with cut inside. Is this better than simply setting your wingers as inside forwards instead? Im looking for the Nasri/Nani type winger who will look to shoot and play through balls for the strikers and only cross the ball sometimes if on the break or there isnt a clear through ball. Does this translate into fm as a winger inside forward or advanved playmaker?

Also if i am playing as united, would it be better to have my defensive cm as centre midfielder (defend) or ball winning mid (defend)?

[Neil Train]

well i've begun. decided to go with wingers who are really just wide midfielders, great defensive/destroyer stats and cutting inside. the idea being that my MCA will create and he's set as primary playmaker. i also have one forward with some serious guile, 18 technique, 16 dribbling, 19 flair and 15 creativity. have set him to complete forward/support but might change to attack i'll see.

what i HAVE noticed and maybe you guys can help, is that when i was playing 433 with the central striker a trequartista, there were a lot more really killer balls. my current MCA is creative but we dont seem to break quick enough for defence splitting balls. is this cos he's not an AMC/Forward? cant work out what the issue is. he DOES have a ppm "runs with ball through centre" so maybe that gives the opposition time to organise but my theory is that having an MC as primary playmaker somehow isnt as effecticve as for example a trequartista higher up the pitch would be. why is this?

[furiousuk]

I play a DM,MC,MC,AMR,AML,ST, I'm a little unsure as to what the actual formation would be called (433/451/41221 ??) but my playmaker is my striker and I actually want him as high as possible up the pitch so I set him as a complete forward / attack. I tried with support and with deep lying forward - support but found that he came too deep and I had the same problem as a treq. The reasons I want him high up (which, I think, is contrary to popular convention) are two fold. The 1st side of the coin is that his technique and flair aren't good enough for a true playmaker but, his immense strength, creativity and passing means that he can muscle it with the big defenders and then release the ball into a far tighter area than if he were deeper. The 2nd reason is that he has great off the ball, anticipation and positioning as well as height, heading & jumping so he is a goal threat in his own right when the time suits and infact has scored a shedload of goals this season but been less successful with assists (last year it was the other way round - this year he is still creating space and using it but the chances aren't being put away, possibly as his passes are not quite as accurate due to a lack of technique, last year maybe he got lucky/was less well marked).

For my mind a really dangerous pass is played right by a defender with enough creativity and guile to out-fox them and give them no time to react. So long as you have quick, athletic guys to pounce it won't matter that the pass isn't perfect, however, the deeper you go the more time the defence has to adjust (either while the ball is in the air or when it becomes a race between defender and attacker) meaning that passes have to be more accurate with better timing. My wingers are pure goalscorers (one is marginally more creative) so they need to tuck chances in straight away as they don't have the technicality to progress the move any further than sticking in the net (or wide, or over, this happens fairly frequently too but we can't have everything our own way )

With immense technique & flair and very good creativity I'm not surprised your guy is ripping open defences from deeper. Being deeper probably gives him more time on the ball too which further increases his accuracy. The deeper you go, the more technique you require up until a point. Too deep and the defence simply has too much time to react to a through ball and can usually get into a good defensive position. This is not to say that someone getting on the end of that through ball can not then set up another guy who might score (or set up a further guy to score). I expect the MCa is capable of creating an opening, it just might not be an opening that directly causes a goal. It might take another few passes or dribbles or crosses before you get a goal-scoring chance.

[Neil Train]

luckily my guy with the creativty, technique and flair is weighing in with all the assists. but i also want the MCa to create. thing is being deeper they tend not to be killer balls. yet. and i'm unsure why a deeper player has less success than a forward at creating these chances. surely, if he gets the ball quick enough on the break he should be able to pick out that killer pass. after all, by the time the forward gets the ball the defence has had longer to re-organise yet for some reason he is able to play a pure thru ball. all very confusing to me:)

[furiousuk]

The forward will also be dragging the defence out of shape whereas this is unlikely deeper. Although, having said all that, a deeper player will, of course, encourage the defence to play higher up and therefore actually create more space in behind.

I think the difference is in what makes a killer ball. A killer ball for me is one that leads directly to a scoring opportunity. No need for the receiver to dribble too far or beat his man as the pass has already done this, he should have a clear or half-chance at beating the keeper. I know that my forward creates more of these than any of my MC's (although they have more assists this season but it's not from quite the same thing).

A deeper player (by this I mean way deeper, as in the MCa) can, of course, play a through ball but the recipient will generally still have a bit of work to do. The hardest part of the move is the through ball to start the dice rolling but the receiver may have to dribble, or cross, or pass for the move to be finished off. This, for me, is probably the most beautiful football to watch and I want to move towards this with my team but I don't have the players (yet).

Of course, having both of these attacking opportunities available to you is the most desirable outcome!!

[Neil Train]

The forward will also be dragging the defence out of shape whereas this is unlikely deeper. Although, having said all that, a deeper player will, of course, encourage the defence to play higher up and therefore actually create more space in behind.

I think the difference is in what makes a killer ball. A killer ball for me is one that leads directly to a scoring opportunity. No need for the receiver to dribble too far or beat his man as the pass has already done this, he should have a clear or half-chance at beating the keeper. I know that my forward creates more of these than any of my MC's (although they have more assists this season but it's not from quite the same thing).

A deeper player (by this I mean way deeper, as in the MCa) can, of course, play a through ball but the recipient will generally still have a bit of work to do. The hardest part of the move is the through ball to start the dice rolling but the receiver may have to dribble, or cross, or pass for the move to be finished off. This, for me, is probably the most beautiful football to watch and I want to move towards this with my team but I don't have the players (yet).

Of course, having both of these attacking opportunities available to you is the most desirable outcome!!

YES, i shouldn't moan. i have two players capable of creating, and am thinking of employing a 3rd on the right wing, though in keeping with my "damn hard to get past" mould. i've ditched traditional wingers in favour of destroyers in the ml/mr position.

i'm still a little confused, yes, the forward can more easily make a killer ball (and by killer ball i mean it exactly as you have described it) despite the fact that my MCa will get himself forward and will have a defence just as organised as if the forward had finally received the ball and played it thru to his strike partner. i just cant work out WHY this is...

[jaycar]

Stupid computer mucking about...just out odf curiousity, what settings do you give your purely goalscoring wingers?

I play a DM,MC,MC,AMR,AML,ST, I'm a little unsure as to what the actual formation would be called (433/451/41221 ??) but my playmaker is my striker and I actually want him as high as possible up the pitch so I set him as a complete forward / attack. I tried with support and with deep lying forward - support but found that he came too deep and I had the same problem as a treq. The reasons I want him high up (which, I think, is contrary to popular convention) are two fold. The 1st side of the coin is that his technique and flair aren't good enough for a true playmaker but, his immense strength, creativity and passing means that he can muscle it with the big defenders and then release the ball into a far tighter area than if he were deeper. The 2nd reason is that he has great off the ball, anticipation and positioning as well as height, heading & jumping so he is a goal threat in his own right when the time suits and infact has scored a shedload of goals this season but been less successful with assists (last year it was the other way round - this year he is still creating space and using it but the chances aren't being put away, possibly as his passes are not quite as accurate due to a lack of technique, last year maybe he got lucky/was less well marked).

For my mind a really dangerous pass is played right by a defender with enough creativity and guile to out-fox them and give them no time to react. So long as you have quick, athletic guys to pounce it won't matter that the pass isn't perfect, however, the deeper you go the more time the defence has to adjust (either while the ball is in the air or when it becomes a race between defender and attacker) meaning that passes have to be more accurate with better timing. My wingers are pure goalscorers (one is marginally more creative) so they need to tuck chances in straight away as they don't have the technicality to progress the move any further than sticking in the net (or wide, or over, this happens fairly frequently too but we can't have everything our own way )

With immense technique & flair and very good creativity I'm not surprised your guy is ripping open defences from deeper. Being deeper probably gives him more time on the ball too which further increases his accuracy. The deeper you go, the more technique you require up until a point. Too deep and the defence simply has too much time to react to a through ball and can usually get into a good defensive position. This is not to say that someone getting on the end of that through ball can not then set up another guy who might score (or set up a further guy to score). I expect the MCa is capable of creating an opening, it just might not be an opening that directly causes a goal. It might take another few passes or dribbles or crosses before you get a goal-scoring chance.

[furiousuk]

Inside Forward - Attack for AMR & AML. I might even consider long shots/cross ball/through ball to rarely but then they really become 1-dimensional (not necessarily a bad thing given the right situation). My right winger particularly is a pure goalscorer - he's just about the most purely athletic guy in the game (16+ in all physicals), got good finishing, good flair & decent off the ball, first touch, dribbling, technique, composure & bravery. Not much else you'd need in a goalscorer apart from anticipation. This guy can't really pass or tackle & lacks the mentals to be creative so his only real option is to score goals. A lot of people would say that as I primarily just want him to bomb towards goal then he doesn't need much creative freedom but I've given all my attackers loads of CF as that is part of my game plan, the CF allows him to ignore the sometimes instruction for long shots/cross ball/through ball and just head towards goal because that's what he's good at.

Also, he has a a PPM 'likes to beat offside trap' and this keeps him high up the pitch looking to use his immense physicality to exploit any space behind a defence.

My left winger has identical instructions but is a far more rounded player and plays as such, scoring less goals but more assists. It's not the tactics so much that allows these players to play in this manner, it's the players being given the freedom to do what is best. Even with fairly poor mental stats they'll lean towards what they are best at.