Playing time happiness is a mess

I dont see how I can give someone more playing time when he's playing almost every match unless he's injured or tired.

But they still complain.   How are we supposed to give a player more playing time if he's hurt or playing EVERY match?

Hello @Dohny

We've looked into your save file. Having 6 Star Players and 2 first choice GKs is going to cause these kinds of issues.

Looking in to the Playing time in last 20 games:

Raya - First choice GK (expects to start all games other than some domestic cup games) - Has started 8 of last 20 games. 
Ramsdale - Important player (one above first choice GK, so expects to start every game) - Has started 12 of last 20 and is playing more like a squad player than one of the most important players at the club
Saka - Star player (expects to play every min of every game): Started 13 of last 20 (subbed off in 6), missed 5 completely and came on as a sub for 2 of the games. 
Zinchenko - Star player (expects to play every min of every game) - started 10 of last 19 (injured for Ludogorets game), subbed off in every game but 1, subbed on for 6 games
Rice - Star player (expects to play every min of every game) - started 13 of last 20, subbed off in all but 4 of these starts, made 3 sub appearances
Trossard - Regular starter (expects to start in most games) - Has started 6 of last 20, come on for last 20 mins of another 9 games, so is playing more like a squad player/impact sub than a regular starter
Partey - Regular starter (expects to start in most games) - Has started 5 of last 20, come on for last 20 mins of another 9 games, so is playing more like a squad player/impact sub than a regular starter

Players expect to have their playing time honoured and none of the players that are unhappy have got close to their agreed playing time. We'd suggest at most you should have 2 star players and 1 clear first choice GK.

3 hours ago, Zachary Whyte said:

Hello @Dohny

We've looked into your save file. Having 6 Star Players and 2 first choice GKs is going to cause these kinds of issues.

Looking in to the Playing time in last 20 games:

Raya - First choice GK (expects to start all games other than some domestic cup games) - Has started 8 of last 20 games. 
Ramsdale - Important player (one above first choice GK, so expects to start every game) - Has started 12 of last 20 and is playing more like a squad player than one of the most important players at the club
Saka - Star player (expects to play every min of every game): Started 13 of last 20 (subbed off in 6), missed 5 completely and came on as a sub for 2 of the games. 
Zinchenko - Star player (expects to play every min of every game) - started 10 of last 19 (injured for Ludogorets game), subbed off in every game but 1, subbed on for 6 games
Rice - Star player (expects to play every min of every game) - started 13 of last 20, subbed off in all but 4 of these starts, made 3 sub appearances
Trossard - Regular starter (expects to start in most games) - Has started 6 of last 20, come on for last 20 mins of another 9 games, so is playing more like a squad player/impact sub than a regular starter
Partey - Regular starter (expects to start in most games) - Has started 5 of last 20, come on for last 20 mins of another 9 games, so is playing more like a squad player/impact sub than a regular starter

Players expect to have their playing time honoured and none of the players that are unhappy have got close to their agreed playing time. We'd suggest at most you should have 2 star players and 1 clear first choice GK.

The partey, trossard, raya is definitely on me but in comparison to the top playing times, their apps are pretty similar. also, a lot of the time - at big clubs- players with over 160 pa always ask for star player as its linked to "salary cap" based on that role. is rotating a big team impossible then, i know there are big clubs who rotate based off game importance irl and we dont hear of  these problems with essentially half the starting 11 (maybe its my fault for more realism in that regard). while this issue has been somewhat resolved, the other problems is: talking to players:  captains, coaches. and/or agents cant talk players out of their issues anymore and my experience as a manager in fm 24 is there's virtually no talking without being forced into a promise. this is a problem as whats the purpose of talking if you know you will, inevitably, be forced into making a promise. 

On 07/12/2023 at 15:37, Zachary Whyte said:

Hello @Dohny

We've looked into your save file. Having 6 Star Players and 2 first choice GKs is going to cause these kinds of issues.

Looking in to the Playing time in last 20 games:

Raya - First choice GK (expects to start all games other than some domestic cup games) - Has started 8 of last 20 games. 
Ramsdale - Important player (one above first choice GK, so expects to start every game) - Has started 12 of last 20 and is playing more like a squad player than one of the most important players at the club
Saka - Star player (expects to play every min of every game): Started 13 of last 20 (subbed off in 6), missed 5 completely and came on as a sub for 2 of the games. 
Zinchenko - Star player (expects to play every min of every game) - started 10 of last 19 (injured for Ludogorets game), subbed off in every game but 1, subbed on for 6 games
Rice - Star player (expects to play every min of every game) - started 13 of last 20, subbed off in all but 4 of these starts, made 3 sub appearances
Trossard - Regular starter (expects to start in most games) - Has started 6 of last 20, come on for last 20 mins of another 9 games, so is playing more like a squad player/impact sub than a regular starter
Partey - Regular starter (expects to start in most games) - Has started 5 of last 20, come on for last 20 mins of another 9 games, so is playing more like a squad player/impact sub than a regular starter

Players expect to have their playing time honoured and none of the players that are unhappy have got close to their agreed playing time. We'd suggest at most you should have 2 star players and 1 clear first choice GK.

Really interesting reading what each status means as sure many of us have our own ideas of what they are!

Would say though that the way player fitness / condition is in FM that it is extremely difficult to satisfy important and star player needs if not impossible without risking injuries. In this regard something needs to give particularly as the tool to allow us to rotate star or important players in telling them we intend to suggest them more often than not results in making them unhappy.

My problem is there's no player interaction that says something like, "I'm rotating the squad because I need you fully fit for Barca away instead of keeling over from exhaustion in the Carabao Cup 4th round against Crewe". Game importance should be a factor, especially when you want to give the kids a run in dead games after you've won the league. Maybe it would be too easy to game the system but I feel it should take into account minutes played as well, rather than just games started.

I have now learned how this impacts the management of the team.

IMO you if your main player for a position has a “starting” agreed playing time (Regular Started and above), you ought to have the backup player a “squad player” at a maximum - and squad player might still moan about it (not much).

That is why it is very important to pay attention when renewing contracts/buying players. If you are agreeing to have a player as started just because you want the player but you know that he will be dropped, it will be an issue.

Also remember that you can change the agreed playing time. I do this as soon as I can to help manage the squad.

On 07/12/2023 at 10:37, Zachary Whyte said:

Hello @Dohny

We've looked into your save file. Having 6 Star Players and 2 first choice GKs is going to cause these kinds of issues.

Looking in to the Playing time in last 20 games:

Raya - First choice GK (expects to start all games other than some domestic cup games) - Has started 8 of last 20 games. 
Ramsdale - Important player (one above first choice GK, so expects to start every game) - Has started 12 of last 20 and is playing more like a squad player than one of the most important players at the club
Saka - Star player (expects to play every min of every game): Started 13 of last 20 (subbed off in 6), missed 5 completely and came on as a sub for 2 of the games. 
Zinchenko - Star player (expects to play every min of every game) - started 10 of last 19 (injured for Ludogorets game), subbed off in every game but 1, subbed on for 6 games
Rice - Star player (expects to play every min of every game) - started 13 of last 20, subbed off in all but 4 of these starts, made 3 sub appearances
Trossard - Regular starter (expects to start in most games) - Has started 6 of last 20, come on for last 20 mins of another 9 games, so is playing more like a squad player/impact sub than a regular starter
Partey - Regular starter (expects to start in most games) - Has started 5 of last 20, come on for last 20 mins of another 9 games, so is playing more like a squad player/impact sub than a regular starter

Players expect to have their playing time honoured and none of the players that are unhappy have got close to their agreed playing time. We'd suggest at most you should have 2 star players and 1 clear first choice GK.

@Zachary Whyte  All of these are the defaults when the game is started.  At game start, Arsenal has two GKs with First Choice+ squad status, seven defenders with Regular Starter or higher squad status, and at least five AML/AMR players -- possibly six -- with Regular Starter or higher squad status.  This is an issue with the game, not with promises the player has made.  Dan Ornsby said in the Data forum that he thinks those starting statuses are set automatically 'based on a combination of factors' as everything is, and that they are not assigned manually by the research team.  Is the expectation that the player is going to come in and have a day-one squad revolt by manually adjusting all these playing time expectations that are set on your end?

Hi @Sunstrikuuu

That's not what I'm seeing myself, I've just started an Arsenal save, Raya isn't first choice but Domestic Cup, Zinchenko isn't a star player but an Important Player (note I was able to switch him to Regular Starter on Day One without complaint.) and Trossard isn't a Regular starter but a Squad Player.

Looking at the Arsenal squad as a whole, I would say the starting playing time agreements are all logical (outside of maybe Partey as a Regular starter, but I reckon I could switch him to Squad player after a few months) 

8 minutes ago, Zachary Whyte said:

Hi @Sunstrikuuu

That's not what I'm seeing myself, I've just started an Arsenal save, Raya isn't first choice but Domestic Cup, Zinchenko isn't a star player but an Important Player (note I was able to switch him to Regular Starter on Day One without complaint.) and Trossard isn't a Regular starter but a Squad Player.

Looking at the Arsenal squad as a whole, I would say the starting playing time agreements are all logical (outside of maybe Partey as a Regular starter, but I reckon I could switch him to Squad player after a few months) 

That's interesting.  After starting a new Real World save and holidaying to September 1, Raya comes in as First Choice.  Nelson is a Regular Starter (maybe a consequence of his contract renewal?  I'm not sure).  Kieran Tierney has Important Player status too, though he goes out on loan in the Real World game mode.  Saliba, Gabriel, White, Zinchenko and Timber are all Regular Starter or higher.  Kiwior, Vieira and Smith Rowe all have Regular Starter agreed future playing time as well.

Looking at playing time expectations for the next five matches, both Raya and Ramsdale expect to be first-choice; Zinchenko, White and Saliba expect to be Important Players, with Tomiyasu and Gabriel expecting to be Regular Starters; Rice expects to be a Star Player, Odegaard and Partey expect to be Important Players and Havertz and Jorginho expect to be Regular Starters; Saka expects to be a Star Player, Martinelli and Jesus expect to be Important Players, and Trossard expects to be a Regular Starter (Reiss Nelson has Regular Starter agreed playing time but expects to be a Squad Player, and Vieira and Smith Rowe are Squad Players who expect Squad Player playing time, but have future agreements to become Regular Starters).  Eddie Nketiah is the only player with Squad Player agreed playing time who expects to remain one, as far as I can tell.