Still the sudden losses of all ability to play football!

I've posted many times on this and nobody seems to able to explain this phenomena other than the enigmatic "complacency." personally I don't buy the fact that the AI starting to play more defensively over the season can cause this (for me) game breaker. So just to try to find a pattern I decided to compare several saves and something struck me about managing the really big teams. If we assume that by now we can discount the fact the tactics aren't fundamentally sound then the massive losses of form always happen in three stages:-

1) The season starts with very big victories against all opposition, more dominant than I would expect even from the teams used to test with (AC Milan, Real Madrid, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea)

2) The team continue to be totally dominant but the AI wins with it's 1 shot on goal

3) Suddenly the AI becomes totally dominant and my team permanently awful until I'm sacked or resign.

Strangely this only happens with the big teams, smaller teams skip 1 and 2 and play generally how I'd expect for a while until proceeding directly to 3.

I've tested this so extensively now that I can pretty much predict exactly when it's about to happen. If this is all just the effects of the appalling (IMO) complacency/morale system, then can I humbly request it be removed from FM2011 before it totally ruins the whole game.

It sounds like you're accusing SI of conspiring to ruin people's games towards the end of the season, or accidentally coded the game in a way that it seems like your save is a storyline.

Really?

I've spent 10 seasons at Sunderland and have won the league 6 out of the last 7, so your theory is clearly incorrect.

It could be your team talks and tactics cause with my team, im doing fine

I've spent 10 seasons at Sunderland and have won the league 6 out of the last 7, so your theory is clearly incorrect.

Maybe from your end it sounds like a theory but believe me I've seen it happen so many times it really couldn't be further away from incorrect.

Do you have a general time line for this? Does form start to drop when the weather gets worse?

My prediction is that you play well in good conditions but struggle to break teams down in heavier conditions, which is a tactical issue. This is probably accentuated by teams beginning to be more defensive against you as you started the season well, which makes breaking them down even harder.

A few bad defeats leads to morale dropping, resulting in an overall loss of form. This is further complicated by the weather and conditions getting even worse. The bad run extends, you lose the dressing room to the extent you cannot turn things around and are eventually shown the door.

It sounds like you're accusing SI of conspiring to ruin people's games towards the end of the season, or accidentally coded the game in a way that it seems like your save is a storyline.

Really?

Not at all, why would they? I do think however there is a problem because it shouldn't be that some of us are struggling so much six months after release while others, like the guy at Sunderland, are finding it almost too easy. By all accounts the team talks and media have way too much influence on performances, and I personally think that sound football thinking does not translate at all into the tactics constantly leading some of us down dead ends, while those who figure out how to beat the game think everything is rosy.

Do you have a general time line for this? Does form start to drop when the weather gets worse?

My prediction is that you play well in good conditions but struggle to break teams down in heavier conditions, which is a tactical issue. This is probably accentuated by teams beginning to be more defensive against you as you started the season well, which makes breaking them down even harder.

A few bad defeats leads to morale dropping, resulting in an overall loss of form. This is further complicated by the weather and conditions getting even worse. The bad run extends, you lose the dressing room to the extent you cannot turn things around and are eventually shown the door.

Well that does make sense and I'd love for it to be that easy. Unfortunately this problem has happened at different times of the season (I haven't completed a full one yet due to frustration) it's also happened while I was managing in Italy where the weather didn't start to deteriorate until later in the year.

There definitely seems to be a trigger that you can actually see in a game. It's usually just an AI goal out of nowhere against the run of play and from that point on despite having been dominant I know I won't see another win.

Do you check in match motivation to see if your players are nervous?

sound football thinking does not translate at all into the tactics

This is also a big claim. What is 'sound football thinking' and how are you incorporating this into the ME? Through classic sliders or through the tactics creator? Are you trying to devlop a one size fits all tactic or play more dynamically?

Do you check in match motivation to see if your players are nervous?

This is also a big claim. What is 'sound football thinking' and how are you incorporating this into the ME? Through classic sliders or through the tactics creator? Are you trying to devlop a one size fits all tactic or play more dynamically?

I see nervous players very rarely but if I do I tend to change their team talk. I'd be very surprised if this was the answer.

I can assure you that at one time or another I've tried just about every tactical approach available in the game, but at the moment I'm using the wizard and changing some advanced settings.

Can you provide a basic run down of what you are trying to achieve strategically?

Are you trying to design a basically static tactic that does well with minimal in match startegic changes, or are you accepting these are necessary?

What formation structure are you employing and how do you envision it attackign and defending?

What roles and duties do the players have and how are you envisionign them interlinking?

Do you use any OIs and how do you choose them?

Do you make any adjustments for weather, pitch size, opposing team's relative strength and formation?

Can you provide a basic run down of what you are trying to achieve strategically?

Are you trying to design a basically static tactic that does well with minimal in match startegic changes, or are you accepting these are necessary?

What formation structure are you employing and how do you envision it attackign and defending?

What roles and duties do the players have and how are you envisionign them interlinking?

Do you use any OIs and how do you choose them?

Do you make any adjustments for weather, pitch size, opposing team's relative strength and formation?

Wow! ok I'll have a go if it'll help.

Currently at Chelsea and although my tactics have changed a lot I've settled on one main one for the time being

Team-4-4-2

Cech- Goalkeeper

Bosingwa-fullback-automatic

Cole-fullback-automatic

Terry-centreback-defend

Carvalho-centreback-defend

Gorcuff-winger-attack

Zurkov-winger-attack

Essien-ball winner-defend/support

Lampard-adv playmaker-attack

Petric-poacher-attack

Drogba-targetman-attack/support

Philosophy: fluid

Passing: shorter

Pressing: more

Tackling: more aggressive

Crossing: default

Roaming: default

OI's I usually close down dangerous CM's and hard tackle, close down and show onto weaker foot wingers and tight mark target men.

Adjustments for weather etc....I have done this in the past with no result and usually just takes me further away from the tactic I want so I'm trying to keep any changes to a minimum. As I've said, this isn't the only way I set up a tactic, indeed I've used countless others of my own and even other people's so I can't see it being a flaw in the way I set my teams up even if the current incarnation might not be perfect.

There are a number of things worth thinking about here.

Firstly, fluid and short passing work well on good pitches in good conditions. Fantastic combination in hotter countries and OK for early season UK matches. However, once pitch and weather conditions begin to worsen, it is a combination likely to get bogged down.

Secondly, there are some structural issues. If you are using the poacher/target man combination with both on attack duties, which you seem to suggest, you will probably be stretching your own team and isolating your fowards. This combination is also very lacking as a creative partnership, which puts a lot of extra pressure on the midfielders.

You are also playing three midfielders on attack duties. This will arguably detach your front five from the rest of the team and kill passing opportunities. Nobody creative is dropping into space to pick up the ball in midfield, leaving only Essien in a ball-winning role to dictate possession.

Once teams start sitting deep against you, your formation is going to be easy to defend against. You might get a lot of possession down to your high pressing and aggressive tackling, but you won't do much with it against a team sitting back.

My suggestion is that you will do well early on becuase your system works well as a counter attacking formation. Presses, wins high ball and pushes people forward at pace. However, it has no chance of breaking down massed defences, so the first stumbling block occurs when teams react to your run of form. Once this extends into winter, the conditions start to undermine you further. Once morale drops, you've had it.

First thing to do is to really know your structure. Which players do you want dropping into space in the final third, which players providing width, which players doing the donkey work. You then need to start thinking dynamically. How can you unlock packed defences. Which shouts help overcome some of your issues when playing in bad conditions? Which can be used to take further advantage of good conditions? Sorting all this out will allow you to make a good stab at the title. To actually win it, you will then need to work out how to keep everybody motivated and playign at the top of their game no matter the importance of the match, which comes down to man and media management.

Fantastic post by wwfan here.

As I'm pretty familiar with the Chelsea team (I play the same lineup with the exception of Anelka for Petric), I have a couple of implementable comments just based on how I would play that same team. You may want to check the Chelsea thread for more ideas.

So here's what I would do:

Lots of offensive freedom from Cech - I don't think playing the ball CB to FB to CM works all that well with Chelsea because the CBs and FBs aren't technically anything special. You want Cech punting it up to your forwards every once in a while.

For the Cole-Zhirkov left side, Zhirkov would be my primary source of crosses for those big strikers. He doesn't need to be running around too much, or even dribbling much - all he needs to do is put in killer balls, so I'd put his crossing on max and everything else on minimum. Cole is primarily defensive and supports the midfield when he cuts in, but isn't going to be an overlap threat. This would be kind of like the Neville-Beckham dynamic at Man Utd.

The Bosingwa - Gourcuff dynamic is the opposite - I want Bosingwa to overlap, and Gourcuff to cut in. Gourcuff will be my primary link from midfield to the attackers, while Bosingwa overlaps and provides the crossing threat. This will help against the lack of creativity of your forwards, and serve as a link from midfield to attack. This Alves-Messi at Barcelona now.

The Lampard-Essien combo at midfield will need to be more defensive if Gourcuff and Zhirkov are both so dedicated attackers. Essien will be a pure defensive player - ball winner, defensive (which is kind of a waste, but alas), while Lampard will have a more box-to-box role, or maybe even a deep lying playmaker role to get the ball out of defense and to Gourcuff and Zhirkov. You still want him making deep runs in the box to leverage his scoring ability, but a much lower mentality will link the front four to the back four. Think of Scholes-Keane. Because of Giggs=Gourcuff's playmaking, and Beckham=Zhirkov's crossing, Scholes=Lampard play as a 10 goal a year players rather than 20 goal a year players.

Petric-Drogba is going to be like Toni-Klose at Bayern last year - two target men who don't really create for each other. I think you know how that ended. It'll put a lot of pressure on your midfield to create and defend, but I think you can pull it off if Cole, Terry and Carvalho push up to support the midfield, and Bosingwa overlaps. Just be aware that a fast counterattack, a long ball to a fast striker, will often result in a one on one with Cech.