theballstopshere

October 6, 2019

4 minutes ago, CFuller said:

How on Earth can ANYONE say the reviews for FM20 have been poor when the FM20 beta has not even been released yet?!

Also, calling SI "complacent" is one thing. Demanding a "boycott" of FM on the official forums is quite another.

'Demanding a boycott': pray tell where you get that from?

"DEMAND"

Too far a stretch of your imagination or comprehension failure?

LOL

October 6, 2019

On 04/10/2019 at 18:56, Double0Seven said:

Of course I realise you can play other versions. I mentioned this twice didn't I? Where from my comments do you find that I don't realise that? I don't understand.

I will take that list of 5000 with a grain of salt considering its Miles and his comments aren't always the best to believe. He considers stuff like a rule change (which you expect) a feature. He doesn't mind being passive aggressive against customers or taking them not serious as well occasionally. I'll not believe it's 5000 unless it's these small "features" such as rule changes that you expect cus they follow the rules. Or more conversation options. I think many would agree with me.

Also I'm not making this assumption. It's proven time after time in many industries that no competition means less innovation. This is basic economics with a lot of research behind it. This isn't my random opinion at all. I'm sure SI do a lot for FM, but you can't deny that this will creep in at some point. They are a company with investors after all.

Of course they will choose the path that sells for them, but sales != good choice. FIFA will sell hard again most likely, but hardly anyone considers that game innovative these days don't they?

I think FM is a great game overall, but yearly releases are just a bit too much.

I am with you. I have mentioned this before too. Yearly releases seem to be stagnating big parts of the game while improving the minor stuff like manager profile picture, lol.

I think it's come to a point that SI should take a break for one release if the important stuff that is plaguing the game is still not fixed (player, GK AI, player movements, player collision system, realistic game play, modern tactics, adherence to tactics...).

I truly believe that if they were to fully focus on the above and have it released through some great videos, the game will be much better off, and sales too. Just imagine the publicity. This along with some smaller improvements will be enough to meet more than half the expectations on here, at least.

But I remember I got shot by the mods about profitability of SI if that is to happen.

Oh well.

October 6, 2019

On 04/10/2019 at 17:58, themadsheep2001 said:

There's never been a true competitor because no one can match what they do. Fifa with all its money never really got to grips, it's a null argument. Ultimately the responsibility for buying lies on the consumer. You have a choice. You have older versions with people who maintain database updates. So if the new version doesn't cut it, play the ones you have. It's not just FM, gamers do it all the time, complain and buy it anyway. Personally, got no sympathy for that logic

Agree. People should just not buy the game if the reviews are poor, like for this version so far.

Only such a 'boycott' will stir SI from its complacency.

I actually think that those who pre-order the game without looking at it more closely is doing SI more harm than good.

Well the good is that SI gets good money, but it makes them think that all is fine, judging from some of the comments from the mods here.

October 3, 2019

11 minutes ago, gunner86 said:

Sorry, but what does getting Alan Curbishley to do an advert bring to the game?

And it’s not a football simulator. It’s a football management simulator. Otherwise it would be called Football 2020.

Finally, the ME and the 3D engine are not the same thing. What you see when you watch the game is the 3D engine interpreting what is happening in the match engine. In the good old days, all we had was text commentary and two different speeds to watch that.

Well, it's an endorsement that it is a proper football manager game.

Anyways, football simulator or football management simulator... I know the difference but my point still stands. The game is still way off that of an actual game to be called a proper football management game.

If it is back to the old days of commentary, I am sure this game would have died. The 3d engine is a huge part of the game now. Players want to see their tactics come alive.

October 3, 2019

13 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

Comparing two completely different games. FM has no alternative and has stalled as a result.

I have to agree even though I don't have hard facts.

I was taken aback when I read that they are building a collision detection system, and it's been four years.

I have little knowledge of how these things work but I can only guess that if there's a competitor it would not have taken them four years.

Collision (tussling, tackling... for the ball) should be a basic feature of the game (yes, even though it may not be easy to implement).

But come on, football is a contact sport.

Entire stadiums and buildings can be built in four years! lol

But of course i am not comparing apples to apples.

October 3, 2019

7 hours ago, leviathan1904 said:

A postponed, late release would be a bad sign, yes. Whenever publishers say that they want to take a little more time to "make their game even better", it's clear that something is fundamentally, game-breaking wrong. In this case, however, there are no hints at all. It's just likely that the FM release will be timed to match the Stadia launch. And because one is not yet exactly scheduled, the other is not either.

Pure speculation: I suspect that there will be first videos next week. From October 11th: first insights, on October 25th: beta release, on November 8th: full release.

Personally, I think there are many things wrong with the game (ME, players AI, reaction, movement, realism...), in respect of how it is called a football simulation game yet looking wayyy off that of an actual game.

It is frustrating to watch the game play out and see players move about worse than Sunday league footballers.

I think it will be brilliant to get an actual football manager or even retired football managers (alan curbishley...) to endorse the game or something. But I think it is a tough ask given how far away from reality the gameplay is.

If SI need more time to fix this, by all means, please do.

It is not called a football simulation game for nothing.

October 3, 2019

18 hours ago, BamBamBam said:

Anyone else abit meh so far on these new features?

Unless something major is being held back, I don't think I will be getting it this year.

My sentiments too. Not buying it until I see match engine and more realistic game play (player, GK movement...), modern tactics and a (much) closer reflection to real world football, and of course my players playing to the tactics I set them.

Hopefully it's all in the works.

Been far too long for these stuff not to be done properly.

September 26, 2019

9 minutes ago, gunner86 said:

But they're not headline features, they are base level improvements.

They are worked on constantly, and the ME has it's own dedicated team that only work on the ME year round. The reason nothing has been announced yet has been confirmed by MIles on twitter is that it's still being worked on. It will continued to be worked on up until it locks for production, and it's at this point we will get information and videos about what is changing.

Fair enough. I will await eagerly the ME announcements. To me, they are the deal breaker and will really affect how I enjoy the game. More so when the headlines features so far are a major letdown, like what many have said.

Hopefully the ME can salvage the situation. Frustrates me to no end when I see players doing really weird and unrealistic stuff, not playing to my tactics and moving about like school children on a kickabout.

September 26, 2019

Would be good that in the future, ME, tactics, players AI, player collision system (if any)... should be in the headline feature. Yes, even though such improvements are supposedly made every year.

After all this is a football simulation game, and touted to be the best by SI.

ME and how the players react to our tactics (and mirror) real world football and tactics are central to a football simulation game.

September 25, 2019

30 minutes ago, enricoix said:

Title of this post : Addiction

Even though I know I have it, I try to deny every freakin year but it is official.
I am addicted to this game.

When they put the game on sale, I said "this is absurd ! how can they do that before even announcing anything !?"
Then I was so damn clear & said "no purchase until something interesting comes out"
After that I saw the announcement which I am absolutely not happy about. Only the player development section barely stirred something inside
Anyway, later on yesterday I bought the game again all of a sudden after all the whining about the announcement and the disappointment with last year's ME.

I am a lost case. What is wrong with me !

Actually it is good for SI that there are die hard fans like you who will still buy the game even though it is not spectacular. Also good for fans like me as you guys keep the company going. I scrutinize the game very closely before buying. lol

I am critical about the game (as I really want it to be the football simulation game it touts itself to be) even though this is the only game I play.

I just hope that die hard fans like you don't inadvertently lull SI into complacency, which is somewhat a feeling I am getting from them, with the slow progress made in ME and other basic stuff of the game.

September 25, 2019

22 hours ago, saihtam said:

Have to agree a bit with him. They have not shown something that uhh makes u jump feature to game.

I am with him too. And I stated somewhat similar views in another post. It mostly seems like ok to somewhat-good-to-have improvements but nothing game-changing at all.

Nothing that will make us enjoy the game on a whole new level, another level of immersion, as if we are football managers ourselves and seeing all our tactics come alive via players' movements, realistic defending, accurate player movement, positioning...

Ok I better stop before I touch a raw nerve and get called out for 'not being constructive'.

LOL

September 25, 2019

2 hours ago, GOODNAME said:

This changes gives me nothing.. i just want better ME lol..

Judging from the reply I got it seems like ME, players AI, players tussling, positioning, GK AI, rebounds, rushing off the goal-line, realistic tactics... will take a long time to get right.

One of the mod actually said that the collision detection system has been in the works for four years.

I give them the benefit of doubt but I am sure that if there is a good competitor out there, SI would be a lot faster in implementing these basic and crucial stuff that is part and parcel of a football simulation game.

September 24, 2019

I gave a few suggestions on improving the game in one of the posts here, but also in my other posts.

And I am getting comments like:

'You can choose not to buy it if you are not happy'

'Stop shouting' - when i did not. Please point to me where I was shouting.

'It's not as easy as you think' - when I did not even say it is easy.

How is this not defensive?

If a collision detection system is not easy and will need more time (which I can understand), what about loads of things I suggested like GK's AI, clearing loose balls, reacting to second balls... and other stuff I suggested?

No mention of it all, or add-ons to my suggestions. Just nitpicking on one or two things i said, and a single exclamation point that I used. And keep going on and on about me shouting.

And what are they saying about not being constructive?

lol

Also, if you were to notice there are a fair few who gave negative feedback on the new features without being 'constructive'.

I gave suggestions, or at least I always try.

September 24, 2019

2 minutes ago, leviathan1904 said:

Simple solution for a costumer: Do not buy it once again as long as you are not happy with the product. Try the demo in November and make your decision. SI owes you nothing.

Precisely. i said it earlier. I am not buying it till i see the videos.

Did I say SI owe me anything?

Pray tell.

September 24, 2019

11 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Because it's actually absolutely nowhere near as simple as you shout about.

There's stuff that needs working on, but stuff like "how did it clear the SI team" and "its bread and butter" is neither helpful or constructive

No need for nitpicking or to get defensive. I also gave loads of ideas about how to improve the game, in the preceding post and my other posts.

And what I said is a fact. Those features are 'bread and butter' of a football simulation game, no denying that.

Which makes one wonder, how did a football simulation game get cleared to be released with so much of the basic stuff missing?

It is a genuine and legit question.

September 24, 2019

6 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

They do Match Engine videos every year, at the same time, ie closer to release date when they do their ME section. With the greatest of respect it seems to work for their pre-orders

Well good for them. Though I am sure that being the only game developer for such games help a lot.

I am also sure there are still many fans who do not know better about the critical flaws of the game.

I for one will be looking at this year's videos before I make my order.

September 24, 2019

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Because it's actually absolutely nowhere near as simple as you shout about.

I did not say it's simple. I said it's basic. Read again.

You cannot argue that what i mentioned is not the basic of a football simulation game.

Of course it's not simple. But it's on them to crack it. After all, people are paying good money for what's touted to be a football simulation game that's close to real life?

And it's been what, 20 years?

September 24, 2019

On 19/09/2019 at 22:02, decapitated said:

I'm impressed with the headline features. I'm glad I made the decision to preorder.

Are these the headline features you are impressed with - Club Vision, Development Centre, Playing Time Pathway, Backroom Staff and Graphic Improvements?

I respect your opinion but I just can't see how they are that impressive, or am I missing something (a brain maybe)? lol

Club Vision and Backroom Staff will certainly help to make the game more realistic but does not really improve the enjoyment of the game. Advice and interaction with staff will undoubtedly get recycled over time, no fault of SI though.

Development Centre and Playing Time Pathway are not marked differences to what's already being offered. And these are stuff that over some time players tend to automate the process.

Graphic Improvements is certainly needed and 'Redesigned player and manager models, improved lighting and overhauled pitch visuals' would be a massive step but what to me is really missing is the glaring omission of modern tactics, players AI, movement, match engine...

I have the 19 version and watching it play out is frustrating as the players don't play to instructions, don't move or position the way professional footballers are supposed to, the GKs are like robots rooted on the line (they cannot even react to rebounds or second balls) and the players have very poor AI (crossing a ball into the opposition's box even though we are defending a one goal lead in the 90th min...). Gengegpressing is a pain to watch. It is like watching school kids chasing blindly after a ball.

To me, it is unacceptable that a game this established still struggles to get the basics right.

September 24, 2019

5 hours ago, Double0Seven said:

Ive been thinking, but I feel like many features are a bit of fluff and I hope they announce some substantial changes. I thought they would come by now, but Im getting kinda worried. If a rule change is considered a feature, thats kinda meh imo.

Yeap, get the basics right - modern tactics, players AI, positioning, defending, GK reactions, match graphics, player movement...

Here's some suggestions SI.

Just release a couple of videos of how for example, gengenpressing is improved: show a short clip of how a small group of players cut off passing lanes and time their challenges to make a tackle where they want it, when they want it. Even to the extent of how their pressing forces an opposing team to pass the ball in a direction they want to.

Another video of how the GK's AI has improved: Show him doing one-on-ones with a striker, rushing out of the box to clear a loose ball.

Another video of two players tussling for a ball before the striker unleashes a shot that's blocked by another player.

Another video of how a team reacts (on the pitch) to a certain formation change.

How about a video of how a team defends in a low block (perfect for those who seek to manage a smaller team)?

I can go and on with the ideas.

Look SI, just these videos above will rocket your pre-orders and possibly shut down the internet.

September 24, 2019

35 minutes ago, gunner86 said:

Do you think if we all vote for 'Attention to Detail' again, Miles might explain what he means?

I just hope 'Attention to Details' means that they will put 100% more effort into the tactics, player AI and match graphics.

And not a sharper manager face or more human-like players' faces, or fluff like that. LOL. Good to have but certainly not game changing.

Not holding my breath though, from past experiences.

Prove me wrong SI.

September 24, 2019

On 21/09/2019 at 16:55, themadsheep2001 said:

SI have have a team that's entirely dedicated to the match engine though. That has its own sole focus. They don't have to choose between the two options.

Glad to know that. I did not know about this.

It is then quite shocking that a lot of what I mentioned (tussling between players, GKs rushing off the line, out of the box to clear loose balls, better player AI like time-wasting, positioning, defending...) are still not addressed at this stage.

How did it even clear the SI team?

Surely these are the most basic stuff that SI should have gotten right by now? It is bread and butter!

September 21, 2019

These are mine, copied from another post.

Yeah graphic improvements are good and necessary but the real deal about the game is really match engine, modern tactics and player AI - it is not called a football simulation game for nothing?

What SI should be focusing on is how the players react on the pitch according to the tactics we set them and them behaving as close to possible (movement, off-the-ball running, defending, positions...) as how a professional football team plays. To be fair, I think SI have made strides towards it, but a lot more needs to be done.

No more ridiculous stuff like 3 players running after one striker in a single line even although i set them on gengenpressing.

Where is cutting off of passing lanes? Where is trigger pressing? These are modern tactics and SI should totally reflect them in the game, esp when they pride themselves on being the best in realism.

No more of my two fullbacks defending so wide when the instruction is for them to defend narrow. It frustrates me when they just stay on their wings without falling deeper with their centrebacks even when under a counterattack. I mean this is just basic football right?

Where is the tussling between two players when running after a ball?

Where is the part when players try to wind down the clock by running towards the corner flag when they are defending a narrow lead (and have instructions from me to waste time). Instead, they cross into the box and lose the ball. LOL

Where is the part when the goalkeeper rushes off his line and out of the penalty box to clear a loose ball, especially when I set him on GK Sweeper (attacking)?

Where is the one to one between goalkeeper and strikers?

I have never seen any of these.

How about goalkeepers reacting towards balls that rebound off the goal frame? Now they are just rooted on the ground, frozen and almost useless to the second balls.

Yes, it is not realistic to expect it to be like an actual game (and no one is expecting that) but surely the above are just the bare basics that a game like this should get right by now? After what, 20 editions?

Please SI, get the basics right.

September 21, 2019