[Can't get wingers to work EVER!]

@szymunk I would say that there are few things going on here some tactical and some outside of the tactics that are causing your poor ratings. 
 

if looking solely at ratings you have to accept that FM will penalise ratings if players lose headers in the case of leonardo and barbosa they will have problems with ratings if they don’t score or assist, that unfortunately is just a quirk of FM. 
 

also you are in February in second place which means pressure comes into the equation all your matches now will be affected by the big match rating of the players that can also affect performance. 
 

Tactically I would say you have too many players focused on scoring and not enough on creation AF IF CMA all focus on scoring and also MEZ and IFS to a slightly lesser extent are still very attacking roles, you need to balance it a bit. 
 

I don’t know all of your players but you need less focused on attacking and add creators  I would switch baldazini to a AP on support change the DM to be a DM defend not a DLP. As Edison is injured I would bring in koopmeiners to be a CM support. that at least would give you a bit of balance without changing too much. 
 

don’t forget you are second in the league and doing well it a can be easy to react to a slight dip in form or results, don’t change too much at this point go slight more conservative with your roles and maybe in the summer transfer window look to improve your defensive personals quality. 
 

good luck 
 

[Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread]

43 minutes ago, akkm said:

that's well said. Essentially too much of the core engine is based on english football wide/cross concepts of the past. It's not even modern football concepts more basic concepts of passing and moving and a different vision of the game than the wide/cross nonsense (but I get what you mean with that). I mean in terms of technical and vision attributes you see even at kids level and 5/7/11 aside at any level...FM match engine doesn't simulate these well meaning a fundamental way to create is very often absent or very very limited almost every year.

When changes get made the core elements (wide/cross) become too prominent again. 

It's time for once and for all to teach the AI/simulate better fundamental decision making so the match engine can produce better football and break away from the stuck in mud progress with wide/cross being too much of a crutch to create chances and goals when other aspects are lacking.

At this stage it's difficult to understand why it's not being done. It may well be the view of football isn't seeing it but it's about time things are done better. It's frustrating to keep having to endure repeated patterns over and over again

I think the major issue is in software design terms I think it’s essentialy a one vs one challenge based game I don’t think the other players are active in the calculations it’s one vs one. This means that the most major concept of football - defensive team shape doesn’t really exist, the classic two banks of four defence shifting with the play and condensing space between the lines doesn’t exist in FM. Players don’t react to other players in their own team or the ball position it’s basically the nearest two players of each team react to the ball and then there are calculations as to what happens. I think that everything is essentially a one vs one and when trying to simulate a team sport that doesn’t really work. 
 

If defensive shape and lines shifted according to the ball going wide, recycling and pulling teams shape apart would be the name of the game, just like real football but as it is now getting the best meta players - tall quick - that wins you more one vs ones and thus wins you games. 

[Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread]

About this experiment however you view it as flawed or unrealistic as players with that attribute spread would not exist, what can’t be argued is the logic that a good big one beats a good small one every time in FM and it’s been that way for ever across all versions. 
 

The reason jumping reach and pace are the most important attributes is linked to the football concepts the engine is programmed to - it’s essentially modelled on 90’s English football, get it wide and get it in the box that is what it is, that’s the reason jumping reach is important the shear number of crosses lofted into the box. Pace is important on counters and the like but you can’t have a small technical team and succeed on FM

This is most seen recently with Pep getting sacked almost every save, why? Because Man City is full of small technical players and those players perform badly in the engine, same reason why FM Ronaldo was always better than FM Messi - FM Ronaldo wins far post headers, Messi doesn’t. 
 

The only reason AI pep has done better last two FM’s is because he signed Haaland in real life - quick and wins headers is enough to keep AI pep his job longer. Exactly the same reason that AI de Zerbi at Brighton always loses his job early this year and quite often Brighton are relegated - they have a squad of small technical players that can’t win headers so the have less chance of scoring and get low match ratings which tanks morale and thus they lose often. 
 

nothing will ever change unless SI bring modern football concepts into the game and realise play goes wide to move defences to make space not to get a wide player to run like forest gump to the byline to either stand up a far post lofted cross or smash it against a defender for a corner, until true possession concepts are implemented and crossing football prevail then jumping reach and pace will always be the most important attributes. 

[Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread]

1 hour ago, Mitja said:

Have in mind all games have some competition but FM doesn't unfortunately. And that's a difference. There is also possibility that ME team lacks staff or vision or even quality. Any pro even semi pro player would understand and execute coach's idea holding up the ball and not floating crosses into box without much problem. That's not micromanaging. Also I don't understand why do you need hardworking winger to understand such simple instructions? And I really doubt Gerrard was incapable of following instructions it was more probably the fact he could play his own game because he was Gerrard.

This is essence exactly my point there is flawed logic into what a coach can and cant influence , even at lower levels than semi pro players themselves can see that if they have a 5"9 centre forward its pointless to float crosses in, you wouldn't even expect a manager to have to make that point. I shouldn't need the perfect stat player to follow out simple instructions, they are already supposedly elite level professional players 

The answer of having to have the perfect player with the perfect stats to be able to perform a simple action constantly in FM falls apart completely when you compare it to real life if every elite level team had the perfect players with perfect ability to perform actions then the transfer window wouldn't exist.  No team has perfect players, not even Man City, however the rest of the premier league teams do have players that are good enough to compete at the top flight level, the reason that they are playing at that level is because they have the technical, physical, and tactical acumen to be able to play at that level. 

I think the example of Gerrard not having the tactical ability to play central midfield was a tactical discipline issue and caused because he would have grown up through the youth levels as one of the best players in the country (maybe world) for his age group, basically he would have been the best player in any team he played in and thus scored all the goals won games single handily took free kicks pens etc etc basically his talent and technique would have carried him.    

 

1 hour ago, Rodrigogc said:

I remember couple of years ago the Ball winning midfielder with the run forward instruction was massively OP, so they locked it and have been doing the same for other roles as well. Seems like an attempt to prevent people finding ways to break the ME. The problem is that all these restrictions make the game very flat. I get pissed with the lack of freedom to customize my PIs as well. Lampard at Chelsea was a playmaker and scored a lot of goals as well, shooting from outside the box and running into the box. How am I gonna make a AP score goals if I can't tell him to shoot more ? 

 

Football is too subjective, in my opinion SI should allow more freedom and if people find a way to break the engine, that's their problem. Because if you have to create a lot of restrictions to prevent diablo tactics and all, you will restrict players who like to explore the game and create their own way of enjoying football.

This is also part of my point, do SI really understand top flight elite level football as the roles frequently have zero logic or any resemblance to what a real life player role in a elite level team would look like but I get that as a gaming concept as a UI input it kind of works, but them we are back to is this a simulation or a computer game, ifs its a game then the ME visualization of wide play cross heavy 1990's style English football is fine for a game, if however its an attempt at a simulation of current top flight elite level football then despite some nice recent touch's to inverted full backs and defenders stepping into midfield then its still a world away from looking anything like real patterns of play 

[Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread]

At this point I honestly wonder if SI have the first clue about what top flight elite level football looks as like the ME is so deeply flawed in concept that it’s will never be anything other than a results simulation not a football simulation. What is the point of asking players to cross low and cross less and work the ball into the box when all they do is stand up far post floated crosses to the far post despite being told not to do that. Honestly the concept of team instructions being slight tendency modifiers is so far removed from reality I don’t understand SI logic at all, do we think if pep tells jack grealish to hug the line and recycle the ball if he started standing up far post crosses he would be subbed and not play

SI elite level players are elite level players because they can execute a coach’s plan, it’s not a tendency it’s not a negotiable it’s absolute if I want my players to play through the middle they will do it, not spray wide passes and run down the wings like forest gump to stand up a cross from the byline. The game is so flawed as a simulation that it’s basically a meme at this point. 

FM24 ME is the most on rails version there is you can’t influence how it plays much at all the ball will go wide and there will be a cross attempt which will go out for a corner or lead to a chance usually a far post header, that’s it that’s you lot you can influence how quickly it goes wide but basically there is zero central play and a massive tendency to pass wide. 

[Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread]

Honestly the only improvement about this entire game is you can now make a 3 2 build up shape with the inverted full back role. That’s it that’s your most polished version ever, for all the promise of the ME the initial build up phase is great but approach the final third and it’s like football regresses 30 years into the past and we are right back in 90’s England - ball wide stand up a cross to the far post, ball wide blocked out for a corner, nod the set piece home 1-0 rinse reapeat. 
 

as for the shambles of the rest of the game the now standard interface bugs are still present and correct the interaction module lacks even more context than ever and the morale module is just a bare faced balancing algorithm attempt to make the game have some level of challenge by making professional elite level players act like teenagers. Do SI even pay attention to the actual real game at all? In real life people bemoan that the characters have gone out of the game as players are so professional now but yeah SI think it’s a simulation. 
 

if this is the love letter to the series then I have to say for the first time in 25 years I’m done with final straw game over.

im off to delete my manage avatar in all its face painted glory…………

[Why are goalkeepers so crap? (mine offcours, not the AI)]

3 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Okay, my top 5 performing players:

I know the header issue exists and what exactly the issue is, but the truth is, as always, somewhere in between the hyperbolic statements. Those two at the top are 5'8" or shorter with a poor (as expected though) headers won percentage, yet they are 2 out of 3 in my squad (and the only outfield players) with an average rating of 7 or more. 

Your example is irrelevant your two players there have 11 goal involvements in 20 appearances and 10 goal involvements in 18 appearances which will obviously boost average ratings considerably. 
 

now show a small full back or defender that’s my point 

[Why are goalkeepers so crap? (mine offcours, not the AI)]

12 hours ago, santy001 said:

That's an awful lot of words to say no. 

ok smart alec with your snide comments (honestly you mods on here need to learn how to interact with paying SI customers) here you go - of my 8 players currently performing on average over 7.00 rating seven of them are over 6ft the only one who isn't is 5'11 and you can see the relationship to headers won percentage

[Another unrealistic game result]

1 hour ago, santy001 said:

Less than 50% of the shots on target were goals and that is somehow virtually every shot? 

Barcelona literally scored 60% of their shots on target..     

1 hour ago, santy001 said:

consider under what circumstances would you ever be allowed to manage a team against Barcelona in the first place? 

Mate it’s a game what do you think that players should have to have a UEFA A badge to purchase FM. I know people defend the game at all costs but this is the best yet. 

[Why are goalkeepers so crap? (mine offcours, not the AI)]

1 hour ago, santy001 said:

Do you have any kind of evidence to back up these kinds of whimsical thoughts? 

Errr go look in your game small players perform worse because of the ratings hit of not winning headers. You only have to play a few games to see this. Players with low ratings in a match have low morale and are more likely to make a mistake, Im sorry but this is just fact. 
 

[Another unrealistic game result]

The game is broken in so many ways, first off there are far too many shots and generally they go over the bar or if you are playing a team on low mentality there will be dozens of shots smashed straight at defenders and blocked. Now as goalkeepers are also broken the amount of shots on target that result in goals is also too much and as morale is the single most important thing you get games like this where virtually every shot on target goes in and there is nothing you can do about it. Add to the the home bias is ridiculous then this sort of nonsense can happen often in FM. 

 

[Why are goalkeepers so crap? (mine offcours, not the AI)]

The other thing in play here is headers matter most for morale so if you have small players they lose a lot of headers so perversely have lower match rating which leads to lower morale and poorer performances. It then becomes a vicious circle of defenders making mistakes and the AI scoring from its first shot on target regardless of the XG of the shot. There is absolutely nothing you can do to avoid this as apparently according to SI small players can’t be defenders……… 

[Unashamed Save Scummer]

I think the thing here is that this year more than ever you get hit with the one shot at goal one goal syndrome more than ever, if anyone can post a single Game from a top 5 league this year where I see a team drop points from a team with a single shot then I would be impressed.

It has been said a million times that the ME can’t distinguish between AI and the human which I believe but what isnt commented on enough Is how some of the outside of the ME stuff that feeds into the ME ONLY affects the human player NOT the AI. 
 

I believe that the morale module acts as a balancing algorithm, complacency acts as a balancing mechanism, team cohesion only affects the user, things like this feed into the ME making it not an equal experience. This is proved by an earlier edition in beta having bug where the human player had too much of a boost going into the match. That could only be possible if the code exists to do specific things to the human player and not the AI. So all the posts on the ME is the same are correct but what they all fail to mention is the outside of the ME is not equal. 

[when to trap inside or trap outside or don't do any ?]

4 hours ago, XaW said:

The tooltip does say the same, but perhaps not as detailed as Jack described it.

I do agree the game should provide you with more though, but the text here is pretty similar to what Jack wrote.

Nowhere in the tooltip is the most important fact in jacks post explained force inside outside only only applies outside of the defensive third and stop/allow crosses only apply in your defensive third……….

[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

1 hour ago, Deisler26 said:

Stop claiming the game is unplayable then. I haven’t had a single technical issue and it is eminently playable for me. Whether it is enjoyable, is another thing entirely

Fed up of seeing the same hyperbole on this thread

Fed up of people dismissing others claims on this thread, luckily for you that you have no technical issues, however that is not the experience for all. 
 

some of us had the game broken by the December patch and yes it’s been unplayable with lag and stuttering in the match engine ever since. Further more to this the only response and help we have had is log it in the bug tracker where it’s been treated like a user PC issue even when it was fine pre-patch. 
 

 

[Do you think you have seen it all ??]

2 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

That is true but all he can do is provide scenario that he has incountered from his experence with the game, true or false none of us truely know accept the actual game designers.To say hes spreading lies and conspiracy theories is a bit harsh since none of us truely know the inner workings of the match engine.

Exactly this I was offering an opoion that’s all, I actually have massive respect for the programmers for what they have achieved especially given what spec of PC they have to get this to run on, it’s no mean feat that’s for sure. 
 

if I am right or wrong the amount of goals and the results of the teams with high reputations are broadly correct which is a feat of programming in itself. 
 

that many many people complain of one shot one goal being FM’d is not just a meme and happens to often to be random RNG leads the thinking that there may be other contributing factors……

[Replicating Arsenals pressing]

Yea I think you need to lower your expectations, the pressing complexity is limited to - press more or press much more that’s it. 
 

there is no concept of proper pressing triggers despite the options in the UI, pressing as a team is also beyond the ability of the game, it’s largely a 1 vs 1 challenge based game ie one player presses one player. You won’t get defenders jumping out to press higher up the pitch it isn’t possible 

[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

Just now, XaW said:

Did you also miss SI officially saying this is how the want it just below that post?

If you want to continue this debate, please PM me and let's not clog up this thread.

Frankly don’t ever interact with me again I have no wish to ever speak to you again, your behaviour is appalling 

[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

17 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Just to be clear, this code is rather complex given all the potential 'bonus' places that can be given out due to coefficient ratings and winning of other competitions etc. 

It could definitely be clearer - generally players accept qualifying for the Europa League as 'European qualification' which given the Conference League, isn't all that well presented to the user manager. That was partly due to when this was first implemented, the Conference League didn't exist! So yes, will require a change to what we call the strings (text in game) to update this.  

However saying that, winning the Conference League will pass the promise from what we've checked in the code today, so if you have a save game where it doesn't, ideally just before the final took place, we'd be extremely interested in looking at it. 

But yeah, would say Bug Tracker is always the best place for things like this. 

Thanks for the great post, as I assumed there is no logic to deal with that initial issue

 

thats still in my opinion not a bug per say but I understand you thought process behind your response, thanks for taking the time to respond. 
 

 

[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

20 minutes ago, XaW said:

Even with caps you missed the whole "That's what SI wants" comment?

Great post really aides the discussion points immensely. 
 

Mods would do well to remember that people who post on these boards are actual customers of SI and rather than post snarky all caps response and digs they would be somewhat constructive. 

[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

6 minutes ago, XaW said:

Gaslighting? Really? Exaggerating much?

I'd say it's clearly a bug, because the game does not seem to recognize that teams can qualify for continental competitions in other ways than the league and thus "fails" the requirement when it should be "completed" instead. This is not what I'd call a ambiguous issue, it's clearly 1+1 = 3.

That said, this STILL isn't the place for feature requests either, and I'd point the user that way if I thought it was.

Also, I know SI don't mind getting in bug reports that could be construed either way, you know why? BECAUSE THEY SAY SO THEMSELVES! They've said bugs, or even potential bugs, should be reported in the bug tracker to either be logged as a bug or investigated and found not to be and rather be a feature request or something that could be clearer to the user at the very least.

Your opinion of a bug is wrong, lack of logic or lack of code to recognise continental qualification through other means is not a bug. 
 

I’ll say it slowly and I’LL USE ALL CAPS JUST LIKE YOU DID BECAUSE IM CLEVER JUST LIKE YOU - unjoined up logic or lack of code is not a bug. Hence you are directing users to log bugs for things that don’t exist which wastes everyone’s time. 

[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

I agree, this should be taken into account. Please put this in the bug tracker, if you haven't already.

It would actually be more beneficial if mods actually knew the difference between a bug and a feature before gaslighting users to use the bug forum. 
 

This is not a bug per say, a bug by definition is code that doesn’t work as expected, the issue of clubs not updating to reflect a reputation or promotion event is due to the logic but it is working as expected. 
 

the game takes a point in time to do all the database updates at the “end” of the season, there will be lots of functionality that ties into that - promotion, relegation, contracts, promises, transfers, managerial movements and probably lots more that I can’t think of right now. 
 

now you can argue that this happens in game too late into the summer but at some point in FM history there will have been a reason why it happens when it does. And while I am speculating here I expect that this arbitrary date will now have had other features built on top of it

 

this is meaning that I would happily bet that it’s a huge job to now take that arbitrary date and move it, this is called technical debt. FM as a whole I would bet has an awfully large amount of issues like this which is why the devs are struggling in places, but I divulge. 
 

The TLDR version is it’s a meme - it’s not a bug it’s a feature - and Mods on these boards shouldn’t be gaslighting users into using the bug tracker to upload non bugs, that just wastes everyone’s time. 

[Why are the players such intense divas?]

9 hours ago, warlock said:

Alternatively, you could just not make promises.

Ah yes well done great answer 10 points to you, always a user issue never the game……

so your argument is to just not use that part of the game because it’s completely broken, well that’s just not good enough, users shouldn’t have to avoid sections of the game that just don’t work properly. 
 

@warlock Rather than your snarky answer, if you actually read my post properly you will see I agreed to the promise, signed a worldwide rep goalkeeper with media description world class, he is a full international for the number 3 ranked nation in the world. In what world is that not strengthening the position? 

all the promises were Locked in during a contract renewal and while you could argue I could just not renew, he was my star player with 10+ teams interested and a previous minimum release fee in his contract. 

I think in this instance most would try to remove the minimum fee clause. 

[Why are the players such intense divas?]

1 hour ago, 2feet said:

It's a major problem with the game.

The interactions sound like they've been written by a 10 year old.

So much room for improvement and better immersion.

But will they do it? I doubt it.

Of course they won’t do it they are too busy adding sunglasses to the manger avatar for next year or more pointless press questions 

in my game my Star player has a promise that the goalkeepers will be strengthened, I sign a goalkeeper with media reputation “world class” his reputation is “worldwide” I also have my former number 1 as backup plus two other prospects who have returned after loans.
 

My total goalkeepers has increased in number and in quality so of course player promise broken as they are “disappointed” that I didn’t strengthen the goalkeeper position. 
 

honestly SI player interaction and promises are so broken at this point it would be a better game if you just commented out all that dreadful code and did away with it completely

[How do you press 5 at the back?]

On 28/12/2022 at 10:53, _mxrky said:

Seems like it’s impossible to press them properly on this game unless you match it with a  narrow 343. When playing a 433/4232 the 3 at the back always has numerical superiority and you can’t alter your pressing shape unless changing formations.

any suggestions?

You are right it’s impossible to press three at the back properly unless you have three central forwards. 
 

in real life pressing shapes are different to the shape a team will defend as deeper, unfortunately FM is so basic it’s STC will press a DC and that’s it, you may get a AM line player press but it’s from to deep to win the ball so it’s largely pointless.