michaeldawson75
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Posts posted by michaeldawson75
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Another great update, and I like the example tactics.
As it has been discussed (by me and others), can you show us how you would set up a weaker team (one that would qualify for a Cautious mentality based on these guidelines) and talk us through your choices? A weak Premier League team, perhaps Norwich, Watford, or Burnley.
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On 02/05/2022 at 11:00, Anexxias said:
I think a big part of why people struggle with the "defensive" mentalities is how poorly described they are by SI in the game. The idea that the lower your mentality the more defensive you are isn't really true. It's more a case of how quickly and aggressively are you going to transition the ball up the field
On 02/05/2022 at 11:00, Anexxias said:I think the mistake people make is going overkill on their roles/team instructions in relation to their mentality. "I am playing Cautious therefore I must lower my defensive lines" for example when actually this is just inviting, as you describe, turgid football, because now you're playing a low-tempo brand of keeping the ball whilst camped near your own goal, inviting the other team to pin you back.
That's how SI thinks it should work though, no? If you set the Cautious mentality then it does lower your defensive lines.
If you look at the preset tactics, most if not all 'defensive' presets involve both cautious mentalities and have lower defensive lines as an additional instruction.
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The only one I sometimes use is 'Encourage' for the whole team if they have fallen behind and I can see morale dropping. Doesn't always have the desired effect, mind. Most of the time I feel the shouts do more harm than good (based solely on the morale colour change).
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Really good read with a lot of practical tips. Not ground breaking, but I love the methodical approach. To me, this is how the game and tactical creation should work.
But for me, it just doesn't. Cautious mentalities, low defensive lines, wingers in the M strata just mean turgid, lifeless football and 1-0 defeats. I almost always play with an underdog team, and a 433 with higher lines and specialised roles is always more successful.
I know some people can find success playing in a cautious way, but I find that I end up fulfilling the media prediction and nothing more, when really the fun is in pushing a team further than their supposed limitations.
Interested to read the next instalment, maybe I can figure out where I am going wrong.
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I've kind of come to the end of my interest in FM21, and possibly the series, as recently I've found myself simply going through the motions, making the same tactics over and over again and experiencing the same frustrations. I decided I would take my current team, Sheffield Wednesday, and try making a different formation - usually I play 433 all the time, but I thought I would try a bog standard 442 instead. I played one game in control with this formation before I added any instructions or thought too much about the roles, then my wife wanted to watch a TV show together so I decided to sim the rest of the season.
Note that my squad isn't the best, but has some good loan players in key roles. I didn't really pick the roles for the players, and based on the star rating they are not the best roles for some of them (WMs in particular).
Anyway, here is the tactic and what I came back to:
No team instructions as you can see. There is one PI - RB has the instruction to Sit narrower, because I forgot to remove it (it was part of the previous tactic).
Sixth place is a decent result I think, to say that I left it to the assistant to handle. I was impressed by the season young Joe Gelhardt had, along with the number of assists from the DLF and CM. Twenty-one clean sheets from a keeper as bang average as Dawson is also pretty good, though I do have a strong back four.
Anyway that's it. No real point to this other than to share.
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2 hours ago, HUMBL3B33 said:
now I'm at a point where i am able to do it with Burnley
Could we see your setup?
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Just trying to get some insight into how team instructions with binary choices are handled by the match engine. For instance, in the transition instructions, when the ball is lost there are two options (technically three, as no selection is also an option): counter press and regroup. My assumption is that the players must do one of those things, but that with no selection it is left to the AI (such as it is) to decide - is this correct?
If this is correct, how does the AI decide (mentality, situational awareness, player attributes)?
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Always found this a bit odd really, it's such a bog standard position that you would think there would be plenty of players for it. I understand there not being many raumdeuters, for example, but WM barely has any instructions beyond 'stand on the wing'.
Who plays WM in real life?
As a further aside, I've always wanted to make a solid 4141 with WMs with maybe a high mentality to get players forward (like Guardiola's Man City did in FM 16). Never managed it, always found there was no penetration and my striker was always isolated.
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Change the right IW to winger, so that player provides width rather than the WB. Change the WB on the same side to FB-S. The FB will stay back more as there is less space for him to move into, and then you have five players for defensive cover (CB x2, FB-S, DM, and DLP also holds position). If you want to keep the WB-A/IW combo (and if they are good source of creativity/goals, you maybe should), change the CM-A to CM-S.
Lower the defensive line/LOE back to normal, but not low (inviting strong teams to attack is disastrous in my experience). Change your forward to a DLF-A to help counter attacking.
Mentality can stay as is or go down to balanced, change 'Counter press' to 'Counter'.
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21 minutes ago, Tsuru said:
In these situations what exactly would you do?
In that case I suppose I would want to look for something beyond the attributes. You could try and make sure that players with good partnerships (as shown by the lines on your formation screen) play together. You could also look for the players with the strongest personality types, or try to make sure that those who train well get in the starting 11. You could look at their past performance (if the info is available) and identify who performs consistently well, who scores the most goals, etc.
As for tactics, I would try and identify the best 11 using, at least at first, the assistant star rating. Then I would see what roles those players are most comfortable with and see if I can put them together into something coherent (you could look at using the generic roles like central midfielder, attacking midfielder, etc, so as not to lumber a player with instructions to do something they can't). Then give that a try without any extra TIs at first and tweak as I went along.
What team do you have in mind when you say there are no standout attributes?
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Not a massive fan of any to be honest, Rashidi is probably the best. He certainly knows how to play the game, but struggles to communicate his ideas.
Zealander is style over substance, and I sometimes find myself questioning how accurate some of his assertions are or why he made certain decisions.
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Managing a lower level Championship side is quite tough in my experience. As a fan, I always start with Sheffield Wednesday, who have financial difficulties and a points deduction to start with. I can usually keep them up, sometimes do a bit better than that, but that's about it. The game has become much more realistic over the last few years, so consider that teams like Sheffield Wednesday or Birmingham City are not expected to be promoted in the first season in real life, or indeed for quite some time (relegation is much more likely in the short term), and this is reflected in the game. Also consider that decent players are too expensive because, in reality, this is the case, and often teams have to settle for what is available.
This leads to a second consideration. Lots of Championship sides are cobbled together with whatever players are available and squads were put together over the years by different managers with different ideas. As such, they often lack coherence, which means that applying a specific style (like gengenpress) immediately is going to be difficult. Unlike Liverpool, for example, who can choose from a much wider selection of players who fit the requirements of the gengenpress style, Birmingham City are unlikely to have this luxury.
So, a few ideas about how to play at this level.
- Accept that there is no magic tactic that will suddenly turn Birmingham into a top side.
- Design tactics that work to the strengths of the players you have available rather than trying to impose a specific style.
- Set realistic expectations of what you can achieve and what will constitute success - remember that success in this game largely entails exceeding the expectations set by the board or the media prediction, however modest they may be.
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Played a few different saves that always include Sheffield Wednesday. The media prediction always seems to be 22nd - this was the prediction in the very first season and seems to be the prediction for every subsequent season. Even after a season in the Premier League followed by relegation, the prediction for the next season is still 22nd. This doesn't seem to make sense (a recently relegated team would expect to do well, plus I know that the available players are of a good standard).
Possibly there is some issue surrounding the coding of the points deduction that Sheffield Wednesday face at the start of the game?
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I've been playing FM for a number of years, and I love designing new tactics, usually for my favourite team and perennial underachievers, Sheffield Wednesday.
I've had some comparative success (getting the Owls out of the Championship and into the top half of the Premier League, sometimes into Europe, though the biggest prizes elude me).
I feel like I understand how to put together a tactic with balance, that suits the players that I have, that has a logical consistency in terms of playing style.
However, I struggle to see what is going wrong with my tactics during a match. I usually watch comprehensive highlights with the 2D camera, and while I can tell from the stats that things are not going well (or that they are going well), I can't pinpoint why exactly.
So... do you FM players have any tips for what you look out for in particular? What sends a warning signal to you? Which players do you keep an eye on? Where is your focus during a match?
Cheers all.
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Wiping the Slate Clean: A Logical Guide to Building a Tactic from Scratch
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted
@dcayton9 nice work, very interesting. Thanks!