backpocket
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Posts posted by backpocket
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16 minutes ago, Cleon said:
A DLP is more static compared to the RPM, and this becomes an issue when everyone else in the side is mobile, allowing gaps to appear. That's why a RPM is needed, so the team can move as a unit and take away space from the opposition by all being in close proximity to each other.
As dor the IF being isolated, this was created for a specific thing and I didn't really like that version much hence the SS. But the whole system is set up to play, as I set out in the posts above. But if you wanted to play the IF version, you could set it up however you wanted to play. If you changed the AP or WB, then that would likely have a knock-on effect everywhere on the pitch, as the AP is really the heartbeat of the side. So you'd have to adapt and make other changes to reflect how the system would now function. But like always, any combo can work. It's how you build around them to take advanatge of it.
Thanks for the reply! I never would have thought if everyone’s mobile, the guy who holds position will ruin everything.
Enjoy seeing your tactical discussion and then trying it myself to see how it works. Things always… fit perfectly somehow.
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I tried the 433 you’ve set up and the movement of the midfield three was really interesting. The carrilero and RPM switched places a lot and the carrilero would a lot of times be the deepest when the RPM surges forward. I tried using a DLP thinking it would be more secure, instead him holding position made everything worse as he wasn’t supporting the right flank enough, and the carrilero was too static. I never would’ve thought to use an RPM there.
The IF-s does tend to get isolated sometimes if the ball gets to him early so I kinda get why you’d use an SS. But with an IF would you use anything besides an AP-WB combo to support it?
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If you’re dying to get your false 9 to score and create it’s possible. But now you’ll need to solve these problems:
1. How do I get a player who drops deep to score?
2. How do I make him play the final ball?
Theyre all solvable, but there’s more than one way to do it. Just watch 5-10 in game minutes of a few games and see what the pattern is. Who gets most shots? Who creates the most chances? And why? Is it the mentality? Instruction? Role/duty?
I don’t have an answer for you because we all have different ideas and different players, but hopefully this will point you the right way.
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22 hours ago, weiner said:
What about 2-1-3-4 in the attacking phase like this? See image below.
I believe the easiest way to get this is to transition from 4-3-1-2 in the defensive phase to the 2-1-3-4 in the attacking phase.
Building with potentially 7 players in the build up-phase. Wingbacks would get up the pitch in the attacking phase, whilst MCL/MCR providing width in the channels both in the build up and in the attacking phase.
The number 6 would probably be the most important player in this tactical setup; playmaker in the build up, as well as being the key player in the attacking phase to switch the ball from left to right, as well as trying to be progressive if possible play the ball into feet to midfielders 8/10/7 (in the right image) – or even playing through balls to the two strikers.
I would probably play number 8 and number 7 some kind of mezzalas in this kind of setup. However, it could be good if these two players got into the box to overload it occasionally.
Number 10 have several options to be functional in this setup. This player could probably be a Shadow Striker and being a third goal threat, as well as being an advanced playmaker.
Number 9 and 11 would probably work fantastic as advanced forwards, poachers or pressing forwards; to just sit at the end of the oppositions defensive line, getting ready to get onto through balls and crosses. Might even work good as target forwards or complete forwards.
That’s actually pretty interesting. I was just thinking about how teams try to counter 3-2-5 with a back 5 or 6 like Emery, and was thinking if the next step was 7.
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17 hours ago, JIPI1 said:
Those two formations focus on stretching the defensive line of the opposition while creating overloads on wings and numerical superiority on the build up, so I'd start by looking at those principles and thinking if you're happy with them or would rather focus on something else. Another thing to consider is that the 3-1-6 focus on using a playmaker to craft quality passes to the front "6" while relying on the back 3 to cover and recycle. So another thing to consider.
Lastly, you'd perhaps be interested in a hybrid formation where one player can at one moment be a build-up support piece and the next become a rampant menace. Roles like inverted wingback, false 9, shadow striker, raumdeuter fit that profile.
Any resources you can point me to? I feel like I only know extreme ends: either direct/counter football, or controlled possession. Would be nice to create something besides that.
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So just like the title, I was wondering what other formation is there? Most top teams seem to be using that and would like to read about other styles.
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Hmm my guess is that having an AF could be the main one? Mentality and forward play has been changed slightly, so your team might be trying to get it to him ASAP.
To keep things close to the original tactic I’d probably just try to change the AF to a poacher or pressing forward. Poacher because he’ll just pin the defense and not too involved in buildup, so the ball would go to the playmakers/midfielders more. He’ll still be pushing the opp D-line up so there’ll still be space to exploit.
Good luck!
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31 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:
Interesting question. I boasted on Discord that it never happens to me (touch of death!) and then had it happen twice in one game last night. I have 3 settled centrebacks who I rotate based on their condition. No issues with them. Last night, in a cup game, I started a 20 year old youngster instead. He's fairly new (about 3 months) so I don't think he's quite gelled in yet and only has a basic grasp of the language. He does have decent tactical familiarity with the tactics we use though. He's only rated 2 stars, so has lower attributes compared to the other 3.
Both times it happened in that game, it was over his head. The other 3 defenders (1 of the 3 centrebacks I mentioned and the 2 fullbacks) were in position and he wasn't. The D-line dropped back, but he didn't. Likely a communication problem, I am guessing.
I wish the game can be a biiiit more clear about these things when they happen. I’ve played for nearly 18 years so I do get it, but I wish there’s some indication or feedback of sorts about the why.
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Do you know why you’re conceding and why you can’t convert? If you can’t find the reason it’s hard to give advice.
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On 11/03/2022 at 21:52, Ghost77 said:
After a few tests it seems that having two or three central defenders on CD-C helps a bit. But seems terrible "on paper"
Have you tried lower mentalities like balanced? It might reduce it happening.
Or another option might be dropping the LoE to compress space in the middle, or just pushing the D-line up to standard so the forward has less space to drop.0 -
If you have a CMd that’s usually enough in a flat 4. He’ll just hang around in front of the back line and fill in if a CB or FB has to step up during counter situations.
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Sadly not yet, but that might change in future versions.
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Not sure if it’s just me, but I’m noticing my FBs cutting in more now in attack even if it’s onto his weaker foot.
Still have the same tactic pre-patch and I don’t have a problem with it happening, it’s a nice variation and gives my winger space, just wondering if anyone else is getting this too.
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On 15/01/2022 at 15:02, omnivore said:
Glad the video exists and that he did this, many of us have been editing the game for a long because this hasn't ever worked as intended. I'm not surprised given how much grief some people on the forums dole out for folks who don't play FM as a "realistic football sim" and preferring to customize and modernize the worlds they exist in. I'm glad more folks are broadening how they play the game, because it's a lot more fun when we can get weird.
People need to stop pretending there’s realism in this game. We’re in our underwear’s at home pressing the space bar, and we can bring Vanarama teams to the CL. But oh no nations improving breaks my realism.
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6 hours ago, Cleon said:
I watch the first 15 minutes of the game that is it. You can tell how a game will play out in this time. The rest of the time I watch on key highlights. I also keep an eye on the player ratings, match stats etc too. It's not just one thing.
How do you rewatch full matches now? I find that the option is missing now on replays so had to keep clicking back when it jumps to another highlight.
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9 hours ago, Ragingsheep said:
How much money did you guys get in the winter transfer window in the first season (starting transfer window disabled)? My board only offered me £10m which makes it hard to buy a striker with.
Yup I got 10 million too. But I convinced the board to buy Goncalo Ramos for 14m - in case you don't know, there's an option to ask the board to negotiate for you.
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On 19/11/2021 at 08:44, hasdgfas said:
Finished with season 1. How did it end up? Painfully.
Really poor cup runs, and losing the title on goal difference. It was a really good second half of the season, right up until the end.
Auba had 32 goals, with the next top scorer hitting 23. However, he got injured right before the Everton match and was out for the last 3 matches of the season. Probably didn't deserve a point at Everton, but definitely deserved one against City, so it hurt a lot.
How do you guys fare so well against Liverpool? I just get smashed by them every game.
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Season 3 updates: Finished 3rd after being second most of the season, after being hammered 5-2 by Liverpool on the final day. Top 4 is getting tighter by the day, so now besides Liverpool we're just fighting to be the best of the rest.
But we managed to somehow win the Champions League, beating PSG 2-0!! The match wasn't good for my heart as we went up 1-0 from a Saka goal, who then decided to get a red card just before half time. It was nervy but we were actually comfortable overall despite being down to 10 men, and Mikel Merino added another from a corner to make it a safe 2-0.
To make it sweeter, we beat PSG after Odegaard left for them. He forced a release clause of 73 mil during contract renewal the previous season, and PSG jumped on it in January. As a replacement we bought Ilaix Moriba for 80 mil and changed to a 433 after using 4231 for 2.5 seasons. He still needs some time to adapt as he hasn't set the world alight, but he's only 21 and still has room to grow.
On the way there we beat the game's final boss, Liverpool, our first win in 10 tries. No one beats Arsenal ten times in a row!
Honestly Arsenal's core is strong as is, as we managed to win the FA cup 1st season, league and Carling Cup in the 2nd season and the CL 3rd season. In fact, 7 of the original players are in my starting 11 for the CL final win.
Some of my youth players are starting to develop well, though definitely slower than previous versions of FM, so I might integrate them 2-3 seasons later. For the next few years we'll likely just be fighting for top 4 as every other team have spent big, so we're just looking to get some cup wins and be competitive in the league.
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2 hours ago, samiam said:
I used Nuno for one game, and the Match Engine kept giving me 'Highlights' of the opposition (I think it was Aston Villa maybe?) just giving him all the space in the world and time to pass the ball, but he couldn't do anything useful with it. I figured it was the games way of saying "You LB isn't a threat so we will let him have the ball, good luck making anything happen..." but perhaps I misinterpreted that :). I ended up losing the game and took it out on him
Ah haven't we all blamed these little pixels before
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2 hours ago, samiam said:
What was your primary tactic?!
I also lost Tierney for most of the season (I wonder if this is a trend with him) and switched to a 3-4-3 with Saka as my attacking left wingback, which worked great against weaker opponents until he too got injured and I had to ditch the WB system…
Why didn't you use Nuno tho? He did have his brainfart moments but is more than solid for me as he develops.
As for tactics I use a 4231 which was originally inspired by Artetaball. Currently it looks like this:
It's a split block so the front 4 all have close down more, mark tighter and tackle harder except for the PF which has it by default. The right CM also has tackle harder - just to encourage him to run to the ball during transitions as he's so high up during attack. The left CM has hold position as my left WB is really aggressive.
The main idea is to get the ball to the attacking mids to run at the defense. The mezzala is to create a right flank overload, which I copied from the AI after seeing it done against me a lot. This also allows the BPD and IWB to bring the ball into the space vacated, and anyone who plays there has brings ball out of defense. That PPM is slightly overpowered now and CBs or FBs with good mentals and at least 12/13 dribbling can bring the ball past the halfway line. I consider this so important I signed Boubacar Kamara and trained him to bring the ball out and play IWB, so no matter what I'll have 2 players on the right of defense who can do that.
The left flank is pretty basic: the IW moves inside, WB overlaps, and the IW can either feed him or look to play the winger on the far side or the forward if he makes a good run.
I also use plenty of OIs, basically press their backline, force WBs inside and push wingers wide. I'll tight mark lone forwards, and occasionally the CMs if they use a mezzala or the AM if he's an SS or attacks the box a lot.
Originally it was more Artetaball, and I played something like this:
Which is quite solid but low scoring, and needs adjusting if you're behind as it's not very aggressive. The idea is to start buildup on the bottom right, swing it to the left flank, then release the winger on the right most of the time. The pressing is also more of a mid block because of the mentality. Tomi also had PIs to cut inside, sit narrower and hold position to mimic the real life version.
After getting tired watching the AI keep the ball forever and being too conservative, I did the changes you see above. It's really great at attacking but it's really poor against the Liverpools of the world. But then again our record against them is poor even before the changes.
You can see the point where the tactic changes, and I start losing 2-1/3-1 instead of 1-0. But as long as you beat everyone besides Liverpool the league title is doable. I've used this strategy for a long time - just do decent and don't lose too hard against top 4 and beat everyone else, which I remember Fergie did a lot with his Man U side back then.
Besides that it can struggle against Bielsaball and tactics that flood the channels so you might need to change defensive width and add PIs to your CMs to close down more when they overload the flank eg. mezzala + winger + wb.
I honestly don't recommend using it if you're not sure what you should be seeing.
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Got 3rd in the first season, then won the league by one goal over Liverpool in the 2nd season!! Even had my Aguero moment when Martinelli scored a 95th minute goal to bag us the title.
We were neck and neck with Liverpool throughout the season and our final matches were against Liverpool away and then Leeds. Liverpool beat us 3-1 in the penultimate game and was 3 points clear, and going into the final game I was resigned to finish second. Liverpool were playing away at Man Utd and was expecting a routine win for them.
Thankfully, Ronaldo decided otherwise and the kids did enough for our first league title.
Despite getting third, we had a difficult first season as Tierney injured his ACL and Tomi broke his leg, so I was out of both first choice fullbacks for half of the season. I turned off the first transfer window too, so we could only get reinforcements in January.
In the January window I brought in Omar Richards on loan from Bayern as LB cover, Thiago Almada on loan too with an option to buy which I used later, and begged the board to spend 14m on Goncalo Ramos from Benfica as a prospect to develop as the 1st choice forward. We needed another CM too as Newcastle offered 36m for Xhaka, and we brought in Mikel Merino as the replacement for 38.5m from Real San Sebastian.
Also managed to offload Cedric, Mari, Chambers and Elneny for decent fees. As you can see below, Newcastle helped to fund my rebuild
I honestly really like Xhaka as his crossfield balls are godly, but Merino's all around contribution helps to make for it. He's also strong and could play CB, and has covered there as I have a relatively small squad.
I managed to snag Boubacar Kamara on a free as competition to Tomi for the right IWB position, and he's pretty much made it his own this season. He also covers for Ben White in the BPD position, and I trained him to bring the ball out to make sure I don't miss that aspect of my tactic. I actually tried to teach him to play killer balls as he always ends up high up the field, but it's unsuccessful.
In the 2nd season transfer window sold Pepe to Inter for 41m + 10m add-ons for appearances, Holding to Juve for 18.5m, while OM activated Guendouzi's 9.5m fee. Nketiah left on a free because he wanted too much money and I didn't want to pay him that, so he signed with Atalanta for 11.25k. Tried to sell Torreira and Bellerin unsuccessfully, so they ended up going on loan with monthly fees, so it doesn't feel too bad.
Also brought in Esposito as is tradition for me as Auba regressed a lot. Auba asked to be loaned out and he signed with FC Red Bull Salzburg, but only made 2 appearances from the bench.
Right now I'm quite happy with the squad as they're still developing, so I'll likely not buy any more players for the next season, barring any major departures and start looking at the youth academy.
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3 minutes ago, wicksyFM said:
I think its ok. I just looked at my youth team with an editor and the CA of a decent amount of the players were going up. Some had even gone up by 5 or 6 points in 6 months
Yeah I looked back at my saves and I *think* I'm hyper-fixating on the fact that my 3/4 star youth players seem to stagnant mentally and technically, even if their physicals have improved.
But I'm only half season in full release, so I probably shouldn't have worried so fast. Will check how it goes in 4-5 seasons before stupidly making a thread again.
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Can you close this mods? I'll come back with a new thread after another 100 hours or so
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38 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:
Have you actually experienced this, or have you just read about it on here?
My youth players seem to be improving slower than FM21, some are just red arrows. I didn’t think about it too much and just thought it was a failure and loaned/sold most of them.
Then I saw the posts here and I thought, Oh wait is that it?
Haven’t started a long term save yet as I’m still trying the mechanics now with bigger teams.
But judging from the responses could be mismanagement from my side, or development speed is slower.
I did read through the bug reports and felt a bit concerned cause I only have around 60ish hours and these are observations from beta and full saves.
But if you guys think it’s okay, give me another 100 hours and I’ll get back on it.
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How to get the best out of Player Instructions?
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted · Edited by backpocket
It’s not a case of more/less is better. To me it’s a tool that’s more about refining details of your tactics and team instructions, subtler tactical adjustments on game by game basis, and also to customise a role to the players you have.