yuchd
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Posts posted by yuchd
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10 小时前, Johnny Ace说:
Thanks
I was trying to steer away from the ol' CM(A) in a 4-3-3
I like the midfield three to keep together as a unit when I let the Wingbacks fly and I think it's more useful for new players to go with the D-S-S triangle centre midfield because it'll cause them less issues
a) there's potential the CM(A) bombs into the box too early in an attack and helps clog up the box
b) it gives the opposition a nice area of the field to punt the ball into
If I use a CM(A) or a MEZZ(A), I'll normally use a FB on that side, a role that'll be a be more cautious and won't stay as wide as a WB and/or a DM(S) type role to help plug that gap and keep the midfield a bit more compact
I'm more used to your way of playing with the BBM on the counter
Nice break down though, thanks for that
Good discussion~
Normally I will set "focus play on the left flank" to drag DM more close to the left flank thus providing more cover.
By the way, how do you feel about "focus play" TI? Years ago "focus play" in football manager will increase personal mentality in focus area. But in recent versions, there's no such changes, which makes me confused of how it works nowadays.
According to the game tutorial: "Focus play down the left flank encourages central midfielders to move closer to the left flank so passes can be focused in that area. This helps create overloads down that side of the pitch and can be used to draw more opposition players to that side of the pitch"
But without this TI, my midfielders will still move to the side with ball for support. To me the side with more support duties will form a natural overload regardless of "Focus play" TI.
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Good thread.
Usually I will play CM-At on the BBM slot for 3 reasons.
1. As during the build up BWM and DM tends to sit deeper and form a temporal double pivot. I need a midfielder to move between the lines and punish opposition's press and linkup with my front 3. Otherwise I will have to transit through the flank, which make my attack predictable and struggle against flank strong formation like 442.
2. Inverted winger works very well with CM-At (Especially IW-S), as he provide constant underlap passing options and can usually push opposition CM/DM out of the inverted route of IW, thus isolate opposition fullback. With the help of overlapping WB-S, the left side will perform like the devastating Kvaratskhelia-Zielinski-Rui combo.
3. Increase attacking verticality especially working with dropping forward.
I will use BBM against very strong team so that I can form a really solid midfield and hit them during the counter.
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Good thread. These 2 roles have 1 thing in common: They do not move into channel in default setting.
This provide constant existence in the middle pitch and penalty box, also clear up the half space for other role to exploit.
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4 小时前, Cleon说:
If the ball is played to the left centreback he still gets pressured from the attacker and is playing risky football inside his own box. Not sure how people can think this isn't risky? He doesn't have an overload in the build up phase either as lots of the player are not positioned to make use of it. Even if he is played the ball, it's the same situation as the keeper likely and he just hits it forward. I watched his entire match, this happened time and time again when they used an high press. This wasn't an isolated incident.
Not sure you understand what an overload is, if you think this is a 6 vs 5 for overloads. Just because you can see 6 players doesn't mean it's an overload.
From the clip, when the ball is played forward he is actually outnumbered 6 vs 3 initially too as his players are too deep and gets really, really, really, really lucky that his striker won the ball somehow.
So Cleon, what TI would you recommend when initial build up against gegenpress? Play it long to TM ? Play to fullback?
In your reply it seems your GK play the ball to wide centerback, but without "play out of defence" TI, he will proactively pass forward.
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In Pep's simulation we see a lot of inverted winger with stay wider PI so as to open up the channel for Mezzala. But I found that even with stay wider, they still sometimes move inside during off ball movement hence lose width, making my transition too narrow.
However I found playing winger with inverted foot can be much better, they hold the width very well when off the ball, and still will cut inside and make diagonal pass with the ball (Like playing Sancho as left winger).
Do you guys find the same pattern? I'm not sure this is due to hardcoded characteristics of IW and W.
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Anybody feels that IW or W on support duty drop less than before? I mean most of time they just stand high up the pitch and isolate from the back or midfield build up. Is that officially change or just bug?
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Anybody feels that IW or W on support duty drop less than before? I mean most of time they just stand high up the pitch and isolate from midfield build up. Is that officially change or just bug?
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Add "stay wider" for your IWS, it will create more space for MEZa to operate.
Rating favorites players with more key passes, more goals, more tackles or headings. Do you wish your IW-s to carry those responsibility more than your core players?
It makes no sense to have all players rating very high in a realistic tactic. All you need to pay attention is whether your hero role got enough option and space to shine.
IW-S has 2 unique function that cannot be reflected in rating:
1, "space creater": a wider bait for MEZA and a inside bait for WB-S when he cut inside with ball,
2. "stable flank pivot": IW-S is the only role without getting further forward in your right flank, which will bring more stability to your system against high press.
no worry about rating, just focus on what he contributes to your system. A great system always has someone sacrifice but still important.
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Your right side is OK, MEZ and W working very well as W-S will stretch the channel that will be effectively used by MEZ.
AF is good in countering high defensive line, nice choice.
Left side is an issue, as no one will back up for attacking WB-A. Changing MCL to BWM-S or CAR-S will help.
If your opposite has AMC or inside forward, you will need DM on defend, to make sure your center has cover.
Be very careful about your build up, WB-A will not participate in build-up, so you need BPD on your left side to connect to WB-A.
Do not use overlap when you want fast counter, this will slower your AMRL in advancing.
Dropping DL, pressing tensity and LOE is suggested, unless AI buildup with short passing.
counterpress is suggested to be cancelled , unless AI buildup slowly.
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IW-S is an interesting role that cut inside from wide area. but what's the better CM duty beside IW-S?
getting further forward like a Mezzala or CM-A? will MEZ collide with IW-S in the half space ?
holding like a DLP or CM-D? will there be too less attacking movement on this side?
or roaming like BBM or RPM?
Tell us about your good experience using IW-S.
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一小时前, Jack722说:
Since a change of duty affects the player individual mentality as well it would look roughly like this:
IF(a):
More forward runs
More risky passes
Less tracking back
More risky dribbles
IF(s)
Fewer forward runs
Less risky passes
More tracking back
Less risky dribbles
IF(s) + get further forward
More forward runs
Less risky passes
More tracking back
Less risky dribbles
Jack is mostly right. If you watch comprehensive scene, you will know the difference.
But IF(s) and IF(A) is a unique example, they have identical default PI in FM22 (IF(S) has no getting forward PI in previous version), identical personal mentality. According to my experience IF(s) is very close to IF(A), but drop back a little more because it has support duty.
Its quite confusing what SI did to Inside forward with support duty in FM22. If I want a stable ball receiver/organizer, I would choose IW(S) W(S) T(A) or AP(S), as getting forward PI makes IF(S) unstable. If I want a scorer from wider area, I would choose IF(A) or RMD, as they are natural scorer. IF(s) becomes very embarrassing in this situation.
AM(s) and AM(A) fits in Jack's explanation very well. Even if you add getting forward to AM(s), its personal mentality still differs from AM(A), meaning it will be less aggressive in performance.
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If you decide to play a slower tempo with shorter passing, I suggest you have at least one stable supporting player at each line (Four line: DC-DM-MC-AM, ST line is not necessary stable), as you are going to organize your offence tier by tier.
The meaning of "stable supporting player" include following conditions:
1. No default "getting further forward" PI
2. No default "roaming from position" PI
3. Playmakers are all stable supporting player, though some of them have above two PI.
Now let's see your CM and AM line player, none of them are stable supporting player.
1. MEZ and BBM likes to roam from central field and stretch wide or get forward, Having two roaming midfielder will making them hard to connect with DM in short passing framework.
2. IFS and WA tends to getting forward as much they can, less likely to drop back and connect with midfielder. (This make sense in a direct passing system, but not quite suitable for short passing system unless you have DLF-S dropping back to AM line) . Be careful of IFS especially, it has very high mentality and getting forward PI, not like common stable supporting players.
My advice is change one midfielder to CM-s/BWM-s/AP-s/Car-s, one winger to IWS/WS/APS/WTMS. Following is an option for overloading right flank:
Other tips:
1. CF is also a roaming player helping midfield and winger, which reduce its threat in the box, so having a constant threat to the box would be better (RMD / IFA).
2. WB-A moves up quickly and mostly suitable for a fast-direct system (Think about AI Liverpool), I would suggest WB-S/ CWB-S in a slow system.
3. Be careful of "Use tight marking" TI. If you are familiar with preset tactic, this TI is used in low block defence system like Catenaccio or Park the bus. They have enough player backward to undertake man-marking task while having free defender as backup. If your use it in high block system like control or gegenpressing, you defence shape is gonna ripped up and full of loopholes, and nobody will back up your defender if they lose position.
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11 小时前, Djeon36说:
Hey I think a good idea would be to make the BPD dribble less and take less risks on their PI. Or just switch to a CB(D) and add take more risks or increase passing directness if u want it to be more like a BPD. For the CF I'd say change it to a Poacher or a PF on attack. I'm not too sure how these will work out but just an idea to try it out.
Thanks but I'm Burnley playing against Liverpool's BPD.
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Thanks for your sharing! Your tactical framework is logic and well-founded.
However, after I adopt this strategy in FM2022，things might need a little bit alternation when dealing with new match engine.
1. BPD dribble upward
As seen below, defenders especially BPD like to dribble upward a lot more than before version. Virgil dribble and break down our let-defender-alone strategy, his position is even higher than DM and makes him easier to pass ball to front players.
2. Drop of all kinds of forward
In FM2022, all central forward have cancelled going forward PIs, making them dropping back often rather than being isolated in the front. In the picture below we see Minamino as Advanced forward, he even drop to AM-CM positions to connect to other players. This breaks down our mid-block as their BPD dribble upwards at the same time (You can also see this in the first pic, the AF drop back very deep to connect BPD and overwhelm our center zone).
In conclusion, BPD upwards and forward downwards makes it harder to adopt low-mid block. Maybe that's why pressing high is still widely used in FM2022. I'm not sure what to alter in this system, I tried only press BPD, it works better but maybe some of you can bring more new ideas~
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What's the meanning of KINGSTONIAN AWAY in HGF tactic? Is it built for away games comparing to normal HGF tactic?
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41230 strikerless is interesting. Can we put 1 SS down to the midfielder as BBM?
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Very reasonable tactic and get very good result with Milan, is there any updates for new version?
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For FM20.4.0451KnapPreachinBluesVOL4P108EC
Does it matter if I use Left-footed player to play left IF (So do right-footed play right IF)?
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Comparing to 20.30, PreachinBlues 451's point falls to 101, not "ALL CUPs" and not doing well in your French underdog tests in 20.40.
It seems that 4231 and 4321 peform better than 451 in the latest update, not only top teams but also underdogs. Am I right?
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Using preachin 451, If someone get red card, which position should be abandoned?
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Nice work Knap! I use Preachinblue451 against Man city on away game, and lose 3-0 firstly. Then I read the save and tried "regroup and hold position" (still using attacking mentality and other default instructions), and beat Man city by 3-0.
I think "regroup and hold position" is very suitable for hard away games. Does it means SUS tactic or more than a SUS tactic? (Before then I just think SUS to be something only for the last few minutes. But this "regroup and hold position" tweak may worth to be a normal tactic )
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Hi knap, thanks for your work.
I just used your PreachinBlues 451 and get good results, but sometimes hard in away games. I notice that you quote the mentality guide by Optimusprimal82, how important is this guide? Does it means that you also follow its instructions in your test?
And I found the mentality guide is a little bit complicate for me, can I just use regroup and hold formation as a SUS and not changing attack mentality and other instructions?
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High TFF! Great job!
I just wonder why individual training focus is different from the tactical role they play. There's individual role familarity which can be shown in the individual trainning menu. Does it impair the role familarity by trainning a AF into CF?
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7 hours ago, peter.havlir said:
Hi @yuchd
What should I do , wheen I am lossing or need to score one more goal? Just set mentality to "Very Attacking" ?
ThanksVery attacking is only suitable for the scoring in last 5-10 minutes.
If not so, keep most of the settings if the stats is all right. If you see some negative scene repeatedly (overhead through ball for twice/ pass to opponents twice), you can do little adjustments and wait for the goal (Drop defence line/ Lower the tempo)
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Recreating Pochettino's Spurs 16/17 - Two Tactical Systems in FM23
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted · Edited by yuchd
Love the HB role in 4231DM in reality, but in FM the HB in 4231 will still try to drop into center of 2 CBs, instead of dropping into WCB position like what Krunic/Bennasser doing in Milan's 4231 system. This makes the transition more vulnerable as they have to travel more distance than a HB in 433 system when losing ball.