Anyone some hints or tips for being defensively better away.

[bigdavej]

It isn't that i'm drastically after help, have done ok in the games i am playing, but like many i try to do my own formations and things first.

My first main success has come from playing an attack based 4-3-1-2, short passing, hard tackling, man marking....nothing too changed, but away from home go Counter.

I've since then when it didn't work at higher levels gone to a 5-2-1-2 which has worked pretty well suprisingly to me (5-3-2 formations aint worked for me on this game for maybe 8-9 years) it's got me 1860 munchen to 4th in the top German league.

My bigger problems why i stuggle to get higher is i let in too many goals away, either formation and wondered if people had hints or tips as to what they do away from home to tighten the back line.

for all clean sheets are easy at home the same formation (even set to defensive, counter and the like) doesn't seem to have similar effect. i'd thought my problem woudl be goals away, but seems it's getting the clean sheets to nick 1-0's.

and when i do the 4-3-1-2 it can be goal-fests needing 4 to win games away

if any of you have real solid away defence performances, what sort've things do you do???

[Hammerpool]

It isn't that i'm drastically after help, have done ok in the games i am playing, but like many i try to do my own formations and things first.

My first main success has come from playing an attack based 4-3-1-2, short passing, hard tackling, man marking....nothing too changed, but away from home go Counter.

I've since then when it didn't work at higher levels gone to a 5-2-1-2 which has worked pretty well suprisingly to me (5-3-2 formations aint worked for me on this game for maybe 8-9 years) it's got me 1860 munchen to 4th in the top German league.

My bigger problems why i stuggle to get higher is i let in too many goals away, either formation and wondered if people had hints or tips as to what they do away from home to tighten the back line.

for all clean sheets are easy at home the same formation (even set to defensive, counter and the like) doesn't seem to have similar effect. i'd thought my problem woudl be goals away, but seems it's getting the clean sheets to nick 1-0's.

and when i do the 4-3-1-2 it can be goal-fests needing 4 to win games away

if any of you have real solid away defence performances, what sort've things do you do???

Try this mate.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=170953

[lam]

Below is an interesting post by SFraser in a thread that I started about setting up strikers. The thread has moved somewhat forwards from where it started and is currently residing in the area of defence line. I am posting it because there is some great information in their about setting up Defence Lines for attack and, in answer to your question, what you might need to take into account when defending.

This is the thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=174750

Yet again Lam I doubt I am going to give you many specific answers.

The D-Line question in an attacking sense is all about whether you attempt to encourage additional space in centre of the pitch for your own players at the expense of additional space for the opponent, or whether you attempt to reduce space for the opponent at the cost of reducing space for yourself. Encouraging space for an opponent in the centre is particularly good for a counter or direct style of attacking football and I don't simply mean the tactical options. It is good for a team that has built a clear pattern of direct play such as the link-up between two forwards or unleashing wingers on the counter from the pass of a targetman, but it is hugely counter-productive against teams that do not intend to attack you, and will exploit that space to play keep-ball.

Likewise compressing the space in the centre is an excellent weapon for teams that have multiple angles of attack, can create opportunities through their own quality of play without having to be shoe-horned into a single decisive move, and are looking to command the ball high up the pitch and exploit their quality. It is of great benefit against sides whose gameplan is to frustrate through possession and then counter quickly through only one or two angles of attack.

The type of D-Line that works best in an attacking sense depends entireally upon your attacking plans and the likely performance of the opponent. If he intends to attack you in waves of numbers constantly throughout the match and you have constructed a quality direct two-three man attacking pattern of play then a low D-Line suits every aspect of your game. If the opponent intends to sit deep and frustrate you then a single direct attacking move involving 2-3 men is highly unlikely to ever pay off and the attacking dimension of play changes completely from a philosophy of exploiting space through a fine tuned attacking manouvre to the creation of multiple dimensions of space and multiple angles of attack under a level of pressure only your own side can handle.

Those are the two extremes but it is your job to analyse the upcoming match and determine which pattern of play you are most likely to fall into and which pattern of play is likely to have the most success, and critically you will have to give yourself the options to perform in both unless you are a newly promoted side or a side no one on the planet chooses to attack.

Something worth pointing out is that movement that creates space to score goals directly can be used simply to create space that unleashes a torrent of movement and defensive disturbance that results in a goal but indirectly. In other words the same principle of movement and play that cuts one team apart on the counter can be pulled back into the rest of the team so to speak so that it creates space in a high pressure game for you additional attacking options to exploit.

You striker running from deep and pivoting around a targetman against the two Centrebacks of an attacking opponent might instantly carve open that defence and send your man clean through on goal. Against a side sitting back the run of your Striker from deep might carry an opponent midfielder with him, allowing your CM to run into space and receive the ball, then when he is closed down by the CM that followed your striker in order to avoid a longshot, he might be able to slide in a Winger moving centrally that in turns creates the space for your Fullback to measure a perfect cross onto the head of your Targetman.

A very hypothetical example but the point being that in the second case it is vital to narrow the distance between your striker and targetman and the rest of your team without disrupting the potency of their link-up play or the threat they imply. You can threaten a move that the opponent can easilly defend but not without exposing the team to additional risks, but what you cannot do is precisly control the detail of the attack like you could in the counter-attack example because if you precisely control the detail you will remove the ability to adapt and make superior choices, not to mention simply run into huge numbers of opponents and at the very least be forced to play inferior quality passes because you are under greater pressure.

The 4-4-2 wide diamond question is particularly fascinating because of the immense flexibility the 4-4-2 diamond gives to a team. The fact you are playing it wide implies you have also cottoned onto it's immense flexibility. It is no surprise nor fluke that Ancelotti has chosen this system at Chelsea and the fact you are experimenting with it says quite a lot.

The 4-4-2 diamond formation has in theory the potential to become just about any formation on the planet that sits ontop of a back four. The more obvious permutations are the 4-1-2-2-1 of Mourinho or the 4-1-2-3 of Barcelona or the 4-2-3-1 of Liverpool or a 4-1-4-1 or a 4-3-2-1 etc. etc. but sufficient control of the behaviour of the forwards and midfielders can likewise produce any variation of a wide 4-4-2 or a narrow 4-2-2-2 etc. etc.

It is a trully fascinating formation especially in an FM context where the game doesn't like you changing formations but allows you to do huge amounts with players in those formations without them ever once failing to understand your instructions. 4-4-2 diamond is a lot stronger in FM than in real life but it is still exceptionally strong in real life.

Modric in the hole is not a bad choice because of his generic skill at multiple roles, but the real strength of the 4-4-2 diamond is it's flexibility so the question must be what are you attempting to try with your 4-4-2 diamond?

[bigdavej]

Well thanks for the reply guys, Hammerpool thanks for the link to your formation, but am at present trying to mostly find my own and get tips on how to maybe make it stronger, although at some point i'll try them one's see how it goes. biggest problem at moment to them is with playing 4-3-1-2 or 5-3-2 i don't have players to adapt to yours.

i may use a couple of tips from it to try away, maybe set one of the 2 central midfielders back a place to defence midfield role and the attacking midfielder to support instead of attack, just tweak some things to more defensive.

thanks for the other post Iam, am thinking from that maybe becaus eof the style i play, more on the ground with skillfull forwards i may be better to set it to more in the centre compressed and see if it makes it tougher away to break me down.

[lam]

Just bear in mind that Compressed means pushing up.... which will leave you prone to counter attacks or long balls...... not saying don't do it, just be aware.

Dave, you need to analyse where you are weak. Is your defence breaking down through the flanks or through the centre, is it conceding long shots or deep crosses, are you prone to throughballs from the centre or are they passing it around your box.

Have a look and report back, the more specific you can be, the more help we can give.

I have said it so many times and I'll repeat it now. If you want to reall succeed in this game, you MUST watch the games at the bare minimum of extended highlights. I tend to watch games in full unless I am A) thrashing them or B) getting thrashed myself. Watching the games in full will not 'teach' you anything, but it allows you to see things, which you can then post here for advice on, and then thats when you 'fix' things.

Having said that, if its obvious that your WBR is allowing to many players to pass him, then you may want to turn off his FWR (as an example).

LAM

[bigdavej]

aah now when you say that, the one thing that seems to always wind me up is the other side's ability to rush through the centre of my defence and go one-on-one.

that was why i ended up swapping from 4-3-1-2 to a 5-2-1-2 to add a 3rd man in the centre.

that helped a small bit, but still happens in that i was thinking of trying a sweeper.

suprisingly considering 2 wide defenders push forward i don't let masses in from crosses, moreso through balls in centre