STILL NO UYGHUR YOUTH INTAKES IN FM23???

Hello,

We have reviewed your request about this topic in the Feature Requests Forum. 

Rest assured, our development team is aware of it, and discussions about this topic have taken place already. 

Thank you.

9 hours ago, Jimmy Wong said:

Hello,

We have reviewed your request about this topic in the Feature Requests Forum. 

Rest assured, our development team is aware of it, and discussions about this topic have taken place already. 

Thank you.

Thanks mate, although the same was said two years ago, but I'm looking forward to the changes. Also, not too sure what is the matter with that researcher dude on the other forum being intentionally aggressive; I wouldn't even call this a feature, if the game is about a football simulation, then it should simulate the footballing world that is taking consideration of different country's demographic. Especially for leagues that are in fact included in the game, such as leagues in China. Unfortunately, that journalist as always, twisted the story and channeled into something political, which was something you guys could blame on but in the end, it was the consequences of your own action neglecting "unimportant" leagues or failing to implement this fundamental "feature" that should already be in the game long ago.

So, the China head-researcher said:

"unless the feature have been well constructed and tested enough to leave no space for twisting to channel non-football hostility, it's a future feature long to wait. "

As someone who works in the IT industry, I can assure you hard coding, this "feature" probably takes you no more than a week, if not days, since there one club in case is only. I find it quite unprofessional how he could just blatantly make the statement as an excuse for not seeking any improvement or putting himself seemingly in the righteous shoes.

NOT even majority of Chinese league gamers so far urged this issue as you did bombarding the forum every year, what's the provocativeness all about?

I've been playing and supporting Football Manager since FM10, this is a game that accompanied me throughout my teenagerhood now to my adulthood, a game that I am truly passionate about and hoping it would thrive at a positive direction; THAT is my provocativeness, and THAT, the same provocativeness from the fan base is the sole reason that is pushing and driving this franchise forward before it turns into another FIFA. I will continue "bombard" the forum next year and the year after until this "feature" is implemented as I continue to support the game.

Sincerely,

A FM gamer

On 11/11/2022 at 01:28, TheQueenMalkova said:

Thanks mate, although the same was said two years ago, but I'm looking forward to the changes. Also, not too sure what is the matter with that researcher dude on the other forum being intentionally aggressive; I wouldn't even call this a feature, if the game is about a football simulation, then it should simulate the footballing world that is taking consideration of different country's demographic. Especially for leagues that are in fact included in the game, such as leagues in China. Unfortunately, that journalist as always, twisted the story and channeled into something political, which was something you guys could blame on but in the end, it was the consequences of your own action neglecting "unimportant" leagues or failing to implement this fundamental "feature" that should already be in the game long ago.

So, the China head-researcher said:

"unless the feature have been well constructed and tested enough to leave no space for twisting to channel non-football hostility, it's a future feature long to wait. "

As someone who works in the IT industry, I can assure you hard coding, this "feature" probably takes you no more than a week, if not days, since there one club in case is only. I find it quite unprofessional how he could just blatantly make the statement as an excuse for not seeking any improvement or putting himself seemingly in the righteous shoes.

NOT even majority of Chinese league gamers so far urged this issue as you did bombarding the forum every year, what's the provocativeness all about?

I've been playing and supporting Football Manager since FM10, this is a game that accompanied me throughout my teenagerhood now to my adulthood, a game that I am truly passionate about and hoping it would thrive at a positive direction; THAT is my provocativeness, and THAT, the same provocativeness from the fan base is the sole reason that is pushing and driving this franchise forward before it turns into another FIFA. I will continue "bombard" the forum next year and the year after until this "feature" is implemented as I continue to support the game.

Sincerely,

A FM gamer

Much appreciated for the reply as this is the first constructive one for a dialogue, apology first for the aggression if there is of unnecessary extent. We have been long suffering previously with feedback that we couldn't do much about but constantly being pressurised for. So we were trying to make an assertive reply and that was it, if aggressively and we do apologise for that. Please do consider how many you posted, understandably as a method to raise attention, but that's also a bit excessive for us.

 

-I wouldn't even call this a feature, if the game is about a football simulation, then it should simulate the footballing world that is taking consideration of different country's demographic

Agreed, and to hopefully achieve that, we suggest it to be a future feature to be developed, but not a bug as if something is wrongly done.

 

-Unfortunately, that journalist as always, twisted the story and channeled into something political, which was something you guys could blame on but in the end, it was the consequences of your own action neglecting "unimportant" leagues or failing to implement this fundamental "feature" that should already be in the game long ago

Very glad that you are on the same page regarding that article, we misunderstood you were on the same side with them hence quoting that. Given you also admitted it's partially to blame, please understand now since their article(not because of you quoting but its emergence) this issue has become more difficult to sort out than before(following on in next paragraph)

 

-it was the consequences of your own action neglecting "unimportant" leagues or failing to implement this fundamental "feature" that should already be in the game long ago

on researching side we have to say for our colleagues on development side that they didn't neglect nor disregard our leagues. Previous researchers may have different opinion on whether or not Uyghur newgen is fundamental, as there has been no clear solution to present different ethnicities. Moreover, we were disrupted at one point by that former Schalke, Real Madrid, Arsenal Turkish German guy's social media stunt. Because unfortunately in reallife some players were misled by what that guy presented, we needed to very cautiously make sure Uyghur players active and visible in game don't have any feature exploitable by journalists with intentions. They did something similar before back in 2004s during CM-FM transitions, some honest mistakes were stirred up by them resulting in a lengthy ban of FM until it came back available on steam. 

Luckily we were able to keep Uyghur names, and seniors within the development helped us quickly create Uyghur language also as a feature for Uyghur personnels in database. Again I would say for a relatively minor but potentially risky issue, we were given reasonable support and attention. The constant projection of club Leopard likely relegating to non-active league for the past couple years also were a factor to consider, with covid impacting so much to all aspects to work on, a feature that could fall out of active league would not be ranked high by anyone.

 

-I can assure you hard coding, this "feature" probably takes you no more than a week, if not days, since there one club in case is only

I can't comment on technical feasibility , but again as mentioned before with that articles and sorts in place and potentially emerging for bigger risks, this creation will take longer than technically required to fruit. 

Also other factors to consider(not excuses but rather I list here for discussion), if there is special feature for Uyghur Chinese personnels, what about Korean Chinese? SI being English, Sega being Japanese, there is a lot of risks that can be exploited if a reallife sensitive feature is not flawless. Don't know where you are from the world but East Asia here have always been a hot frontal region in terms of geo-politics, we do understand it's not mandantory for everyone in the world to realise but just want to raise that there is something special here.

 

-I find it quite unprofessional how he could just blatantly make the statement as an excuse for not seeking any improvement or putting himself seemingly in the righteous shoes.

We do admit, as we apologised for. My research team are not PR specialists, but normal human, we as a team decided to make a statement and we are responsible for. The dilemma being that there is at the moment not much we can do safely data-wise, but we are put into seemingly wrongdoing shoes if you can understand(especially with the thread being at data forum, and bug thread). In terms of potential improvement, technically we are in not so handy shoes, but rather in a situation that the more proactiveness could lead to more risks. 

As by the end of previous reply, there is a realistic but not so improving potential solution, feel free to let us know about your thoughts of that please.

 

-I've been playing and supporting Football Manager since FM10, this is a game that accompanied me throughout my teenagerhood now to my adulthood, a game that I am truly passionate about and hoping it would thrive at a positive direction; THAT is my provocativeness, and THAT, the same provocativeness from the fan base is the sole reason that is pushing and driving this franchise forward before it turns into another FIFA.

Much respected, and actually we are on the same side now. We share the similar provocativeness since CM era leading us to slightly a bit more capable status now to contribute building the game. And we don't mind sharing a bit more about Uyghur personnel issues in the past:

in 90s and 00s, Uyghur personnels coming into active leagues level were very limited, so the solution was case by case. 

Local Xinjiang youth development focuses mainly on a competition not in FM: Chinese national games, imagine it as Chinese national olympics, the age group for football varied but stablised at U20. Every generations of Uyghur youngsters were recruited to push for that competition, due to difference on footballing asset like coaching, even the best of Xinjiang national games team player were not good enough for top 2 tiers active leagues in FM. We have these non-league level teams and personnels in database whenever we could collect enough information to bring them in, not ruling out their potential to be redeveloped and given chance into pro leagues in future.

However, a few newly emerging Uyghur players for pro leagues since 10s, almost all came from other source not featured in game, like universities. Even the emergence of club Leopard didn't make them a constant source for future new generation of players, as newgens in game. Reason being: owned by private company with little state resource support and own budget, club Leopard has insufficient competitiveness to recruit future talent locally, parents can better choose local FA who secures their boys' future to end of their respective national game by 20 years old(like a long youth contract plus college/uni scholarship), or seemingly promising club academies from mainland(Shandong Luneng, Guangzhou Evergrande.etc, almost all mainland club academies who scouted actively in Xinjiang produced more Uyghur players into their respective pro league teams).

Instead club Leopard has been mainly a 1st team level platform for Xinjiang(not all Uyghur)players, some of them didn't make it elsewhere(at Xinjiang FA or mainland clubs), returned home and earned a chance to restart at reserve team, or U19 team level when they are almost 19(most players stayed at their previous club's region for university entry application there before possibly reconsider football career afterwards).

In summary club Leopard's supposedly intake of Uyghur players came mainly elsewhere, while their own youth development despite running for years, produced little players into our active league level. Therefore after all, it's not a major absence of feature affecting overall gameplay experience and realism. In gameplay it does not look that authentic with Leopard U19 featuring little Uyghur players, but those grey/newgens rarely make it into active gameplay, even if Leopard 1st team is still in active league. The amount of Uyghur players appearing in the game in the forecast of 10 seasons in the start, actually depend on Uyghur youngsters in other stronger active club academies.

And we never have taken this lightly as same as you mentioned with fanbase demand(some who believed more on Uyghur players' potential in reality and gameplay involving them), as soon as the individual research for each of them is done(especially difficult with PA, with a lot of them being early developers with physical advantage at early stage) they are introduced into database. For FM23 we don't even know the amount ourselves but almost all prospects players till 2004 year group are there, with extra effort also on naming, youth history, language settings .etc, each Uyghur player we spent more time on them. 

 

-I will continue "bombard" the forum next year and the year after until this "feature" is implemented as I continue to support the game.

We do respect your support, and we hope have explained enough why "bombardment" was not helping us. But of course you are entitled to voice it in such, and we will regretfully be quoting/replying similarly in future before we receive any constructive addition. In same sincerity as yours we rather prefer an eased conversation as this one, which we can all focus on the problem-solving. Thanks.

Also sincerely

The Chinese researchers 

On 11/11/2022 at 21:15, FM-China said:

Much appreciated for the reply as this is the first constructive one for a dialogue, apology first for the aggression if there is of unnecessary extent. We have been long suffering previously with feedback that we couldn't do much about but constantly being pressurised for. So we were trying to make an assertive reply and that was it, if aggressively and we do apologise for that. Please do consider how many you posted, understandably as a method to raise attention, but that's also a bit excessive for us.

 

-I wouldn't even call this a feature, if the game is about a football simulation, then it should simulate the footballing world that is taking consideration of different country's demographic

Agreed, and to hopefully achieve that, we suggest it to be a future feature to be developed, but not a bug as if something is wrongly done.

 

-Unfortunately, that journalist as always, twisted the story and channeled into something political, which was something you guys could blame on but in the end, it was the consequences of your own action neglecting "unimportant" leagues or failing to implement this fundamental "feature" that should already be in the game long ago

Very glad that you are on the same page regarding that article, we misunderstood you were on the same side with them hence quoting that. Given you also admitted it's partially to blame, please understand now since their article(not because of you quoting but its emergence) this issue has become more difficult to sort out than before(following on in next paragraph)

 

-it was the consequences of your own action neglecting "unimportant" leagues or failing to implement this fundamental "feature" that should already be in the game long ago

on researching side we have to say for our colleagues on development side that they didn't neglect nor disregard our leagues. Previous researchers may have different opinion on whether or not Uyghur newgen is fundamental, as there has been no clear solution to present different ethnicities. Moreover, we were disrupted at one point by that former Schalke, Real Madrid, Arsenal Turkish German guy's social media stunt. Because unfortunately in reallife some players were misled by what that guy presented, we needed to very cautiously make sure Uyghur players active and visible in game don't have any feature exploitable by journalists with intentions. They did something similar before back in 2004s during CM-FM transitions, some honest mistakes were stirred up by them resulting in a lengthy ban of FM until it came back available on steam. 

Luckily we were able to keep Uyghur names, and seniors within the development helped us quickly create Uyghur language also as a feature for Uyghur personnels in database. Again I would say for a relatively minor but potentially risky issue, we were given reasonable support and attention. The constant projection of club Leopard likely relegating to non-active league for the past couple years also were a factor to consider, with covid impacting so much to all aspects to work on, a feature that could fall out of active league would not be ranked high by anyone.

 

-I can assure you hard coding, this "feature" probably takes you no more than a week, if not days, since there one club in case is only

I can't comment on technical feasibility , but again as mentioned before with that articles and sorts in place and potentially emerging for bigger risks, this creation will take longer than technically required to fruit. 

Also other factors to consider(not excuses but rather I list here for discussion), if there is special feature for Uyghur Chinese personnels, what about Korean Chinese? SI being English, Sega being Japanese, there is a lot of risks that can be exploited if a reallife sensitive feature is not flawless. Don't know where you are from the world but East Asia here have always been a hot frontal region in terms of geo-politics, we do understand it's not mandantory for everyone in the world to realise but just want to raise that there is something special here.

 

-I find it quite unprofessional how he could just blatantly make the statement as an excuse for not seeking any improvement or putting himself seemingly in the righteous shoes.

We do admit, as we apologised for. We are not PR specialists, but normal human, we as a team decided to make a statement and we are responsible for. The dilemma being that there is at the moment not much we can do safely data-wise, but we are put into seemingly wrongdoing shoes if you can understand(especially with the thread being at data forum, and bug thread). In terms of potential improvement, technically we are in not so handy shoes, but rather in a situation that the more proactiveness could lead to more risks. 

As by the end of previous reply, there is a realistic but not so improving potential solution, feel free to let us know about your thoughts of that please.

 

-I've been playing and supporting Football Manager since FM10, this is a game that accompanied me throughout my teenagerhood now to my adulthood, a game that I am truly passionate about and hoping it would thrive at a positive direction; THAT is my provocativeness, and THAT, the same provocativeness from the fan base is the sole reason that is pushing and driving this franchise forward before it turns into another FIFA.

Much respected, and actually we are on the same side now. We share the similar provocativeness since CM era leading us to slightly a bit more capable status now to contribute building the game. And we don't mind sharing a bit more about Uyghur personnel issues in the past:

in 90s and 00s, Uyghur personnels coming into active leagues level were very limited, so the solution was case by case. 

Local Xinjiang youth development focuses mainly on a competition not in FM: Chinese national games, imagine it as Chinese national olympics, the age group for football varied but stablised at U20. Every generations of Uyghur youngsters were recruited to push for that competition, due to difference on footballing asset like coaching, even the best of Xinjiang national games team player were not good enough for top 2 tiers active leagues in FM. We have these non-league level teams and personnels in database whenever we could collect enough information to bring them in, not ruling out their potential to be redeveloped and given chance into pro leagues in future.

However, a few newly emerging Uyghur players for pro leagues since 10s, almost all came from other source not featured in game, like universities. Even the emergence of club Leopard didn't make them a constant source for future new generation of players, as newgens in game. Reason being: owned by private company with little state resource support and own budget, club Leopard has insufficient competitiveness to recruit future talent locally, parents can better choose local FA who secures their boys' future to end of their respective national game by 20 years old(like a long youth contract plus college/uni scholarship), or seemingly promising club academies from mainland(Shandong Luneng, Guangzhou Evergrande.etc, almost all mainland club academies who scouted actively in Xinjiang produced more Uyghur players into their respective pro league teams).

Instead club Leopard has been mainly a 1st team level platform for Xinjiang(not all Uyghur)players, some of them didn't make it elsewhere(at Xinjiang FA or mainland clubs), returned home and earned a chance to restart at reserve team, or U19 team level when they are almost 19(most players stayed at their previous club's region for university entry application there before possibly reconsider football career afterwards).

In summary club Leopard's supposedly intake of Uyghur players came mainly elsewhere, while their own youth development despite running for years, produced little players into our active league level. Therefore after all, it's not a major absence of feature affecting overall gameplay experience and realism. In gameplay it does not look that authentic with Leopard U19 featuring little Uyghur players, but those grey/newgens rarely make it into active gameplay, even if Leopard 1st team is still in active league. The amount of Uyghur players appearing in the game in the forecast of 10 seasons in the start, actually depend on Uyghur youngsters in other stronger active club academies.

And we never have taken this lightly as same as you mentioned with fanbase demand(some who believed more on Uyghur players' potential in reality and gameplay involving them), as soon as the individual research for each of them is done(especially difficult with PA, with a lot of them being early developers with physical advantage at early stage) they are introduced into database. For FM23 we don't even know the amount ourselves but almost all prospects players till 2004 year group are there, with extra effort also on naming, youth history, language settings .etc, each Uyghur player we spent more time on them. 

 

-I will continue "bombard" the forum next year and the year after until this "feature" is implemented as I continue to support the game.

We do respect your support, and we hope have explained enough why "bombardment" was not helping us. But of course you are entitled to voice it in such, and we will regretfully be quoting/replying similarly in future before we receive any constructive addition. In same sincerity as yours we rather prefer an eased conversation as this one, which we can all focus on the problem-solving. Thanks.

Also sincerely

The Chinese researchers 

Much appreciated for the time you devoted to this detailed reply. As Xinjiang is a key region for the future of Chinese football, I really hope this feature will get implemented in the soon future. As we know, nations like China or Russia are large countries with a lot more diverse demographics than most European nations. I really wish in the future; FM could simulate and appreciate the footballing community in Xinjiang, in Yanbian or in Chechnya. As when I say I will continue "bombard" the forum I meant I won't let this issue sink, I will raise this again next year just so to for a reminder. But again, thanks for the time taken to write this reply as we all seek to improve FM and its community. Sincerely. 

We have locked this thread because the bug tracker isn't the place to discuss a feature request. 

We encourage you to carry on with the conversation in the Feature Requests forum (such as how to make this feature realistic in FM).

Thanks all.