Things that bug you - the economy

While the match engine has been improving and lately tactic creation being simplified, there still have been countless flaws in the game. Many have been fixed but there are still some that bug me. One of those things is how the economy works in FM 2010, something I believe have been overlooked. I have tried several teams in different leagues and I always felt that there must be something very inaccurate in the way the economy works. Let me give you two examples, one in FM 2009 and one in 2010.

In FM 2009 I played with Sporting Club de Portugal in the Portuguese league. Portugal is a poor country and the clubs aren't very rich. Looking at a club such as Porto, they buy cheap and sell expensive to top clubs. Managing Sporting I had a major problem with the economy. The transfer budget was high as well as the wage budget. Most decent players in the Brazilian league would cost me ~£8m, not taking the very best in account. So there was a small chance of buying cheap and selling to recieve a profit. Luckily, the Sporting team had some very talanted players, Veloso and Moutinho, the latter I could sell for big cash. I managed to sell Moutinho for £30m halfway into the first season, which saved my economy. Taking no consideration to how bad the economy was, the wage budget was still set high. Having calculated the costs I figured I had to cut down wages, and so I did, but it was hard. Each month the club went back £3m with wages being at 55-60% of total wage budget.

This might sound obvious, but match tickets provide a lot of cash. So whenever I pick a club nowadays I make sure they sell a decent amount of tickets to ensure that they have a stable economy (i.e. no budgets being 200-300% of what they should be). There are many season tickets being sold in Portugals top clubs, however, the season tickets does not cost much - all probably realistic. But from where do they get the money? I have seen the three top clubs; Benfica, Sporting CP and Porto make fairly costy signings without selling for double/tripple the amount in one season! In FM there are no league bonuses or television agreements that bring any cash worth mentioning either. CL and selling players is your only chance. After winning CL in second season my economy was saved, again. Having bought players that were extremely good - compared to the salary and transfer fee - I invested my cash in Feghouli, a player that Real Madrid bought for £40m after half a season. A funny point is that they didn't even play him more than a few matches; he was stuck on the bench. To sum this up: I feel that there must be something missing in the economy. These clubs must be making a profit in real life, judging by the signings a club like Benfica has done in the last few seasons. OR. There is something/someone that gives them cash. My mate played as Benfica in the very same game and he had the very same problem as I did.

Moving on the other example...

In FM 2010 I have started a save playing with Brommapojkarna in the Swedish top division. On a side note: Brommapojkarna are known for their youth teams. While having produced extremely few Swedish star players, they are enjoying a youth structure of 16 in FM 2010. Their youth teams are always one of the best in Sweden but they have failed to produce quality players. The arena is called Grimsta IP and has a capacity of 8000 (700 seated). Media predictions was to end 15th first season (16 teams in Swedish top league) and I managed to take them to 10th place. Average attendance was 3561 in the first season. So this is a team that raise many youth players but have no great history in Swedish top football. The transfer budget was £76k first season, I used about £40k. The wage budget was set to £150k per month, I used £75k per month. How much do you think I went back? The economy was at a negative £1,2m (millions) after the first season. The wage budget was "adjusted" to £88k per month for the second season. After 24 matches I'm located at 4th place. Average attendance is 4215. So yes, more tickets have been sold this season, and I believe results being the reason. With 6 matches to go I'm 6 points behind the 1st placed team. I hope to win, but I realize it's very hard. I would have to win it to save some of the economy, because at this point I am almost at a negative £2m. I've sold one of my best players for £800k which has somewhat helped my economy. My best defender is soon being sold for £280k, I've tried so hard to sell him for more, despite many clubs being interested I only managed to get this little. Taking into account that Brommapojkarna doesn't normally sell players for a lot of money the economy in FM is seriously bugging me. It seems my only chance is to get to play in Europe, something I probably will if I hold onto the 4th spot.

I love how the match engine has been improved, I love the simplified way of doing tactics. I also like how the interface has been improved. But there are things like the economy that bugs me. These small things that I take for granted should work, but they don't or are just poorly thought out. Let me give you another example: In FM 2009 (9.0.3) I couldn't selectively pick players from the first team to play in the reserves team matches. Instead I was forced to do it via the option that comes up before each reserve match (you know what I'm talking about right?) where one get to pick from four options. I always had to play around with it, mark, unmark, mark, etc. to get the right players selected for reserves match. Of course, one way was to simply put them down into the reserves. This would work in different leagus, with different teams, but not with my beloved Juventus. A bug? Yes. Annoying? Yes. I had a full list of these kind of things, some more similar to the reserve team bug, others more similar to the economy problem. Pity I deleted it once FM 2010 was released as I thought they would be fixed. Yes, many have. But there are still ones that makes me disappointed. They are yet to be named, perhaps some other time. At the bottom of this post I have posted screenshots of the economy in Brommapojkarna.

What are your thoughts on the economy in FM? Is it accurate or at least somewhat accurate? Do you share my view or am I totally wrong?

Are there other things that you wished SIGames would improve, things that seem less important than a working match engine, but still is something that one would take for granted to work?

Sporting really made a lot of money IRL from selling their players from their awesome academy(probably Veloso or Moutinho will have to be sold this year..)they also made it to the CL a couple of times in the last years which helped them..

In Portugal clubs have supporters with special rights(called "sócios") which pay a monthly fee to have those rights, i don't think that the game shows this income... so the big three get some income from that specially Benfica.

Coming back to FM i agree with what you are saying, the fact is if you are managing outside a big league with no European football and you stick to the wage budget(or even save some of it) you are going to be broke without some awesome signings.. yet on IRL those club survive(your example from Sweden is perfect).

I know it was just a passing point regarding Juventus, but Italian teams don't have reserved sides/ leagues - so there's your "bug".

I can reply to the 2009 example. The problem is that you're, somewhat, misinformed.

First of all, Portugal isn't really a "poor" country. "Below average" might be a more accurate assessment - just think of why people from Brazil and some african nations flock there... hint: it's not just because they speak the same language.

Second, if there's one thing the top portuguese clubs are known for is for being in debt! Yes, Porto, Benfica and Sporting all fight like dogs, year after year, to get into the CL because that's what keeps them afloat. The club representatives admit this themselves, when interviewed, so it's not speculation.

That's why there were only 3 top teams in Portugal for years. Until recently, when the rules changed and now only the top 2 get into the CL, and Portugal already has a victim... it's Sporting, that finished 4th this season, and not looking too good to ever get back in the top 3 (unless they come up with some other business plan, or strike lucky of course).

Granted, Porto also did poorly and finished 3rd, so they won't be in the CL this year, but they weren't as deep as the other teams, so a trip at the Europa League should suffice (and maybe the selling of an extra player or two if they decide to hit the market more heavily).

That being said, I don't think the FM economy needs that much work, when it comes to how things happen in Portugal (or most European leagues, for that matter). I do believe it might need some work elsewhere, though.

I know it was just a passing point regarding Juventus, but Italian teams don't have reserved sides/ leagues - so there's your "bug".

The bug was that I couldn't pick a specific first team player to play for the reserves. Instead I had to go through the thing that come up before reserves matches. And yes, there's no reserve matches in Italy, I arranged matches between the reserves and the youth team. I think you miss the point.

I can reply to the 2009 example. The problem is that you're, somewhat, misinformed.

First of all, Portugal isn't really a "poor" country. "Below average" might be a more accurate assessment - just think of why people from Brazil and some african nations flock there... hint: it's not just because they speak the same language.

Second, if there's one thing the top portuguese clubs are known for is for being in debt! Yes, Porto, Benfica and Sporting all fight like dogs, year after year, to get into the CL because that's what keeps them afloat. The club representatives admit this themselves, when interviewed, so it's not speculation.

That's why there were only 3 top teams in Portugal for years. Until recently, when the rules changed and now only the top 2 get into the CL, and Portugal already has a victim... it's Sporting, that finished 4th this season, and not looking too good to ever get back in the top 3 (unless they come up with some other business plan, or strike lucky of course).

Granted, Porto also did poorly and finished 3rd, so they won't be in the CL this year, but they weren't as deep as the other teams, so a trip at the Europa League should suffice (and maybe the selling of an extra player or two if they decide to hit the market more heavily).

That being said, I don't think the FM economy needs that much work, when it comes to how things happen in Portugal (or most European leagues, for that matter). I do believe it might need some work elsewhere, though.

I don't know what you are comparing Portugal to (Brazil?...), but of course one have to compare them to the rest of Europe since those are the leagues they compete with. Portuguese league is one of the best in Europe, but the country has a weak economy compared to the nations they compete with. A rich country would provide teams with better conditions.

I think you're missunderstanding the point. I claim that Portugal is a poor country, and it is. The part about Portugese clubs being in depth; I did not claim them to be rich. The underlying question, which I perhaps should have made clearer, is wheter it is correct that Portugese clubs should have budgets that make their economy bleed despite winning CL (£Xm), despite selling with good profit (Feghouli £40m, Moutinho £30m).

I feel that the economy needs to be reworked in FM. Portugal is just an example, and so is Sweden. I know there are incomes (and expenses for that matter) that aren't taking into consideration. I can give you sponsorship, and especially the lack of financial partners, as examples of something that is terribly inaccurate in a lot of teams. I also think the way teams calculate their budgets must be fixed.

Sporting really made a lot of money IRL from selling their players from their awesome academy(probably Veloso or Moutinho will have to be sold this year..)they also made it to the CL a couple of times in the last years which helped them..

In Portugal clubs have supporters with special rights(called "sócios") which pay a monthly fee to have those rights, i don't think that the game shows this income... so the big three get some income from that specially Benfica.

Coming back to FM i agree with what you are saying, the fact is if you are managing outside a big league with no European football and you stick to the wage budget(or even save some of it) you are going to be broke without some awesome signings.. yet on IRL those club survive(your example from Sweden is perfect).

My save in Sweden represents the problem I've had in 90% of all clubs I have played as.

In third season my side, Brommapojkarna, got a new board. The club recently took a bank loan, valued £2.2m and showed a positive balance of £80k. 18 matches into the seasons I'm now on a negative £578k. I've been forced to sell my two best DCs and my best GK and I plan to not renew the contract of two of my best midfielders. They will have to leave at the end of the season. Losing my DCs was a real blow and since then I've had a great problem in the league, now only at 11th place. Last season we overperformed when we ended up in 7th place, so this season the board excepts us to end up in the middle of the table. However, I am leaking a lot of goals since I have lost my defences backbone. This is a common problem in FM, the total lack of relationship between economical problems and board expections. Realistic? Maybe in some cases. Realistic in all cases? I don't know about that.