Cannot sell my topscorer and other good players

Hello

I don't know if this is a bug, probably not, but I'm not sure where to post this so here goes. I also don't know if anyone has brought this up, if so feel free to close this.

I'm in the summer of 2014 in my San Marino save and have managed to get them up to the Serie A, actually we've just finished our second season in the Italian top flight. Now I have this striker, Marco Di Matteo, who's been with me since the serie C1 and he's been my top scorer in every division. He's had a pretty bad season this season but the year before that he managed to become top goalscorer in the Serie A on our debut in the league!

As you'll see I reckon he's not good enough for the serie A, or at least won't help me progress further, so after these past few years I've decided I'd like to sell him. The problem is though, there's no interest in him. At all. Actually, there's never been any interest in him since he's played for me, even though he consistently ranked amongst the topscorers in every league he played in, even managing to become top goalscorer in the serie A last season, scoring around as many goals as other hugely talented players have in the years before and after him.

He's currently valued at 2.1 million € and I'd like to sell him for 2.5 million. That's a reasonable price right? But there's no interest. Surely there must be some team interested in a player that has proven to be able to score even at the highest level?

One thing I can think of is that teams maybe only buy players on CA? Because I'm pretty sure he's got a low CA. I can't check because there aren't any editors for mac as far as I know (and I rather not start with editors ). If so, shouldn't teams actually buy players based on performance/attributes? I could be completely wrong about this, I'm just trying to figure it out. I mean, someone who can score 17 goals in the serie A, arguably one of the toughest leagues defensive wise, should surely be wanted by a lot of teams in Italy and abroad? Especially at the low low bargain price I'm offering.

If anyone can shed some light on this for me, it would be hugely appreciated. I'm enjoying FM2009 very much, even with its faults, and I'm sure FM2010 is going to be even better! I would just hate it if I had to sell him for peanuts (I already am kind of ) after all he's done for my team. Or worse, have him fade away into obscurity in my reserves...

Okay, long post over now, but thank you very much for reading this far! Here are some screenshots of the man himself.

Oops seems I can't fit them here, screenshots in next post.

seems my screenshots got removed when moving the post. So here they are:

Topscorer 2013 (scoring as much as Kaka 2 years before!)

Marco Di Matteo

Marco Di Matteo history

Couple of threads like this popping up and I will quote the best response I found amongst them:

Transfer list him, offer him to clubs, reduce his squad status to not needed, reduce the fee until one of them finally makes an offer.

It is quite a common 'problem'.

I'm guessing you're right about a low CA. I always get the occasional player like this in my squad. Looks average on paper but saves me time and again. On the other hand I find myself fighting off offers for them rather than wondering how I'll sell him before he's 40.

A top goalscorer in Italy should be valued a lot higher than 2.1 million. That said, its been several months since he was the best in Italy, so his value should go down some ways.

If you want to take the trouble to upload the save game I can scout him with genie scout or FMRTE and tell you about his hidden traits (if the save game is compatible, which I think it is, IIRC), but I think your assessment must be accurate: Low CA and probably missing what are seen as key attributes for his position. There isn't much to do in this situation but to under-value him, not over-value him, if you want a sale. That, or, get him to perform well for another season and hope you get a bid based on performance.

thank you swirlypop69, I will try that.

I think you perfectly understand what I mean Smac! I agree a top scorer in Italy should be worth more than he was at the time, and after his all-in-all underperforming season it should drop.

I am not looking to sell him at a huge amount at all though, if I got the 2.1 million his marketvalue indicates he's worth, I'd be well pleased!

Unlike a lot of people (or that's the impression i get from reading the forum), I'm actually rather pleased with the transfer prices in FM2009. If you decide to overpay on a player, to me that's not an issue the game has. But it would be great if something could be done about situations like this.

Alright I will look up the thread that explains how to upload the save game. thanks for the offer

thank you swirlypop69, I will try that.

I am not looking to sell him at a huge amount at all though, if I got the 2.1 million his marketvalue indicates he's worth, I'd be well pleased!

If anything, his market value is an inflation of his perceived worth (being in the top flight, a successful team, solid history). I would guess his real perceived value has got to be 700,000 -- 1.8m based on what you've given us so far.

Its just like if you take a horrible player into a top club his apparent market value goes from say: 5,000 to 300,000, just for being part of a big club: Nobody is going to pay 300,000 for him as he's still rubbish. The listed values undergo some serious statistical smoothing that does NOT reflect accurately what would actually be paid for a player on the day.

Now, the reason I suggest he is still overvalued is that were he a decent player (in the AI's moronic perception of value) and had been top league scorer last year, he'd be valued @ 8-15m Euros, not 2.1m. So, the league thinks he is shockingly bad, IMO, to downgrade his value that far. I will be surprised if you get over 1m Euros for him without another great season. It doesn't make a lick of sense but that is my impression of how the AI values players:

Perceived Value (CA, key attributes) x Form Factor (average form, MotM, etc..), where PV is heavily weighted on the extreme ends, while a player's form is much more important if he is truly average. Thus, your player must have terrible PV.

Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I think I kind of understand it now. But yea, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. A player of his quality (or lack thereof) playing in the topflight probably would be perceived to be more valuable than he actually inherently is.

It must be really hard programming stuff like that, but following your logic, if they somehow were able to remove the AI's ability to "see" a players CA/PA, do you think it would solve this particular problem? I mean, if all the computer had was attributes and form factor, then perhaps that would lead to more "realistic" transfers and marketvalues and such.

What I'm trying to say is that the idea of inflated marketvalue seems very acceptable to me and now that I know about that, I think I'll be fine selling him for a much lower price. However the fact that the AI somehow "sees" his CA/PA and that being a factor in the AI making decisions on that, sort of bothers me as I've no way to see players' CA/PA if I play the game as it's meant to be. (nothing against editors!)

But I suppose the CA/PA discussion has been had a gazillion times around here so maybe this is a bit of a slippery slope. I am very curious to see how SI will deal with this in next versions of FM though!

I have uplouded the save game at http://rapidshare.com/files/261914246/San_Marino.fm.html. One small request. If you do get to checking CA's and stuff, could you please tell me what the lowest CA in my first team is without actually saying who it is? I'm kind of curious how bad the worst really is . Thanks a lot in advance!

My team is sort of terrible with a good player here and there but having a bit of a hard time finding cheap good players. A bit proud I've managed to keep san marino in the topflight the past few seasons with the means I've been given though.

Downloading now.

I'll report the lowest CA (number only) for you. What would you like to know about the original player, if anything? (Di Matteo).

Another thing to consider is the club's reputation. Since you're San Marino I would guess the club reputation (and manager for that matter) are still fairly low for the top flight. This could also have an effect on prices, in effect treating your team as if it were still Serie B. This would actually bump up my estimate of his value relative to 'market value', as reputation is the kind of thing that effects market value rather than what I'm calling PV (perceived value).

If you'd like (and if I can open the file), I can compare your team and/or manager reputation with the rest of Serie A. Its a number out of 10000 for each. If you'd rather not know, thats fine.

OK, lowest CA is 99, but it is only one player.

I've looked at Di Matteo as well. Let me know what you'd like to know about him or the rest of the team.

Hey, that's a nice history you have there with the team. Considering you're not cheating and don't have any super financial windfalls I'd say you've done brilliantly with San Marino.

Thanks I must admit that I have been using a downloaded tactic though, "Tylerbode's V6 Piranha Sleepydude edition" or something to that order. wow that's a mouthfull hehe. But last season my goal production sort of got stuck and I've been conceding ... well just too much. Don't really know what caused that change in fortune though. But it's worked in the past so I'll just try and get some better players and give it another go. But other than than the tactic, yea, I'm quite proud of it yes sir indeed! Now just try and get San Marino up there with the Milan teams and the likes!

my god 99 in the serie A. I have a lot of work in the summer

Yes I would like to know Di Matteo's CA as well, I'm curious now. And I guess it would be interesting to know how my managers/my teams reputation is holding up against the rest too. There's no advantage over the AI in knowing that. And maybe give some more insight into the marketvalue thing.

I just reread my thread title and with all the threads lately I can see how some people would think this was probably another whine but really I've learnt more about FM tonight, so thanks a lot for taking the time and effort to explain this to me.

Thanks I must admit that I have been using a downloaded tactic though, "Tylerbode's V6 Piranha Sleepydude edition" or something to that order. wow that's a mouthfull hehe. But last season my goal production sort of got stuck and I've been conceding ... well just too much. Don't really know what caused that change in fortune though. But it's worked in the past so I'll just try and get some better players and give it another go. But other than than the tactic, yea, I'm quite proud of it yes sir indeed! Now just try and get San Marino up there with the Milan teams and the likes!

To explain that, I always assumed that the AI adapts to your tactics. I alternate between two different tactics for a season at a time for that reason - it seems to work for me.

Someone please clear it up for me if that's something I've imagined/got wrong that idea.

I just reread my thread title and with all the threads lately I can see how some people would think this was probably another whine but really I've learnt more about FM tonight, so thanks a lot for taking the time and effort to explain this to me.

My pleasure. You have good questions and selling players can be quite frustrating. Glad to help.

Di Matteo's CA ................... 109

San Marino Team Reputation: 6185

San Marino Manager Reputation: 4855 / 7543 / 4521 (Home / Current /World)

Compare with the 20th team in Serie A: Empoli

Team Reputation: 5658

Manager Reputation: 6717 / 6057 / 5069

To explain that, I always assumed that the AI adapts to your tactics. I alternate between two different tactics for a season at a time for that reason - it seems to work for me.

Someone please clear it up for me if that's something I've imagined/got wrong that idea.

Thats really a topic for the T+T forums (and has been covered from time to time). But short answer: No, teams don't adapt to particular tactics (yours or otherwise). However, teams DO rank your team and put out a tactic based on odds/perceived strength.

Combine this with the tendency for teams to both 'gel' and at the same time lose a bit of inspiration if they are constantly winning, and you have the same general data that correspond with changing tactics season to season, but for different reasons (re-ranking, team motivation instead of tactic 'cracking' AIs...)

Cheers for clearing that up Smac, sorry if I started to pull the thread of topic - it wasn't intentional!

Well, it is on topic if we're looking at the performance of San Marino this season. He's struggling a bit and that could well be down to his side being 're-ranked' as a legitimate threat. This is often called 'second season syndrome' and happens in the real world as well. San Marino are going through what Hull and Stoke will be this season: The downside of being taken seriously!

No problem Deadbloke thanks for dropping in! I'll have a look around the T&T forum, maybe I can find something to get San Marino back on track on their quest for domination.

Hehe Di Matteo. 109 and getting topscorer. Makes me even more determined to sign only players with high determination stats. Feels great when a player with such limited skill produces something like that. on team rep too! not the lowest, we're moving up the ladder

Well, it is on topic if we're looking at the performance of San Marino this season. He's struggling a bit and that could well be down to his side being 're-ranked' as a legitimate threat. This is often called 'second season syndrome' and happens in the real world as well. San Marino are going through what Hull and Stoke will be this season: The downside of being taken seriously!

It did happen around the half way mark of the season. First half of the season was very decent, but the 2nd half ... if we had played like that the entire season, I fear we probably would've gone down.

If anything, his market value is an inflation of his perceived worth (being in the top flight, a successful team, solid history). I would guess his real perceived value has got to be 700,000 -- 1.8m based on what you've given us so far.

This may be a fitting end to this thread. I have just sold Marco Di Matteo for 1.3 million € to Verona in the Serie B. So that puts it almost exactly in between the 700k - 1.8m bracket you said there Smac! Nice guess that