thebreadlady
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Posts posted by thebreadlady
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FB/a + attacking team mentality = very attacking mentality.
would increasing team mentality to very attacking and/or adding overlap/underlap increase the player's mentality even more or is it already at its cap?
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1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:
Have you watched some of these matches in full or at least on comprehensive highlights to actually see what's happening on the pitch?
yea they favor passing to the right side, especially my starting DM.
focus left variation tactic was very weak, barely any chances and lost a few games too. focus right tactic though was a beast.
there was one particular game with the focus right variation of the tactic that ended 7-1 and it was clear we kept playing and progressing down the right flank then switched it to the left in the final third for goal scoring opportunities.
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focus left tactic but with a left footed DM instead of a right footed one:
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just to humor you guys, ran a few games with your suggestions
focus left TI
LB FBa, LCM RPM, LW IWs
+60% possession
VS.
focus right
RB FBa, RCM RPM, RW IWs
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6 hours ago, jc577 said:
No mate, it doesn’t work like that. Think about it like this - roles/duties determine where you build up play, and have a bigger influence on this than TI’s.
So applying this to your latest tactic - a trio of FB-S, CM-S, and W-S doesn’t scream ‘we’re looking to build our attacks from here’, especially considering you have a MEZ-A on the other side.
However, a trio of a FB-A, RPM/BBM, and an IW-S would likely see build up on the left flank, with the RPM able to switch the ball to your attacking duo on the right.
Guys I get what you're saying but you're still not understanding my 2nd question. Forget about the initial query.
you people are saying my roles and duties is why my heatmap is heavy on the right side contrary to my instruction to play down the left, thats all well and good and i understand but what im now saying, after my 2nd post, is that if i flip my roles and duties, my heatmap is still the same.
What I'm curious about now is the heatmap now. Doesn't the heatmap indicate the amount of activity in certain areas of the pitch? You guys are saying my roles in the initial tactic is making us play heavy on the right side contrary to my focus play down left TI, but if I invert my roles and have my MEZa and IFa on the left and DLP on the right and focus play down right TI I still end up with a similar heatmap of high activity on the right hand side of the pitch.
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2 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:
Stop looking at the heat map and actually test some of the advice we are giving you. I have tested and written about overloads and channelling ball into specific side on here before and trust me 80% of the time, the trick is in the roles you choose.
Sure but my question has now evolved into why my tactic and it's inversion's heatmap are both heavy on the right side. Shouldnt the heatmap also be inverted?
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1 minute ago, Cloud9 said:
There isn't a correct side to focus play down, it's a TI I use within matches to influence them based on an opponents weakness, or if I want my fullbacks(s)/wingback(d) more involved up the pitch.
The issue here is still your roles, the only player really looking the progress the ball from the midfield or defensive third is the MEZ(a) who will do so aggressively, carrying the ball and making line breaking passes.
mate, i dont think youre actually looking through my posts.
how is it that the same tactic and its inversion are both heavy on the right side according to the heatmap? if what youre saying is correct, but its clearly not, then the heatmap should also be inverted if i invert the tactic.
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tested for the past few hours the tactic below and the tactic flipped with focus right but the heatmap remains the same, heavy on the right side for both. im stumped.
19 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:I have no problems with the focus play TI, except that if you leave it on the entire match your players in that area will be exhausted
maybe you coincidentally just happen to focus play down the correct side
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2 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:
Usually when the play is progressing down the right hand side of the pitch it's because your goalkeeper is right footed and he's passing the ball out to the right hand side, which is where your tactic is setup to progress the ball through the thirds (not the left hand side).
fyi its the other way around, right footed keepers prefer to pass to the left which was the jumping off point for me to decide on focus play down the left. a few random examples:
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56 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:
But you have more aggressive attacking duties on your right flank. While IW and DLP are not an ideal combo. DLP tends to launch cross-side thoroughballs rather then dynamically connect with your left attacker (via one-twos for example). If you want to play more down the left side then make sure to change the role of DLP to RPM or BBM.
yes im trying to play out the back and focus our build up play and pull the opposition to the left hand side then launch diagonal killer balls from the left side to create scoring opportunities for the attacking duty players on the right hand side.
heatmap is just a general visualization for you guys to see what im seeing in the game. i played many games trying different roles on the left with the same result as the first heatmap above so then i tried to just flip the tactic and voila, as you can see from the second heatmap. regardless of your suggestions, why is it that the same tactic but flipped and all of a sudden my players are focusing play down the correct side according to the TI?
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this is the tactic flipped -
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i want to play down the left flank but we keep playing down the right. this is pretty much every game.
433 balanced, in possession - focus left, play out of defence, fairly wide, slower tempo.
DLFa
IWs Wa
DLPs MEZa
DMs
FBs CB CB FBs
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so pressing more and higher line solved most of my conceding issues. who would've thought...
this game and its pressing is so counter intuitive. sick of high press in FM, so unrealistic and easy to win games this way. my players dont even suit a high pressing, high line tactic.
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1-0 vs some hungarian side bottom of the europa league and they score from their 1st shot late in the game.
guy with 11 passing, techinque, 12 vision. launches the perfect ball while facing the side of the pitch.
game before this one i had my TF marking the opposition DM in a 433 and LCM man marking opposition RCM since these 2 were their good passers and their LCM had very bad on the ball abilities. i was thinking eh, let him have the ball, whats he gonna do? guy launches 2 perfect balls from deep for 2 assists.
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3 hours ago, ibrahim.akbyk said:
Looks much more solid to me. I tend to change 1-2 roles and/or duty according to situation and/or oppenents. For example I use 3-2 rest def against 2 striker as IWB-BPD-CD-IFB at the back. In some situations I use 2-3 rest def with 2 IWB. Always looking for numerical superiority at the back according to oppenent’s attacking style.
by the looks of it, a lot of chances being created due to my CBs being ahead of the ST while the LB/RB way behind playing the ST onside like this
teamwork 16+, positioning 14+ for all 4 defenders.
my CBs dont even mark tightly PPM but they routinely follow them instead of maintaining a line and ready to drop back for the long ball.
edit:
i tried keeping a clean sheet with a 2-0 lead in the last 10 minutes by taking off 1 ST for another CB for a 541 vs their 442. all three of my CBs were headless chickens not knowing which ST to press. center CB on cover was continually pressing the LS or RS making one of the other CBs to cover his position, leaving massive gaps.
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2 hours ago, Dr Naysay said:
@thebreadlady Can i ask what team you are playing with?
real sociedad but its like 2050 something now
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this is our tactic now. AF scored 38 in 37 last season and started this season with 10 in 6. but we still have a problem conceding most of our goals from through balls or balls over the top. we especially have a difficult time playing on these stupid square la liga pitches, there just seems to be so much space and gap between defenders on those fields. nearly all those games have been +5 goals games.
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3 hours ago, ibrahim.akbyk said:
TF is a ball magnet, but I think this is not the case for every situation. Somebody correct me if am mistaken here, but I think the attributes like composure, vision, decisions are more important for your situation here. If he has composure to be calm there, vision to see TF and decision to make TF as a choice, then he could pass the ball to the TF. Though he needs other abilities to be able to pass is correctly but its another thing. Also, you told him to take lower risk and to be more direct. Like you said, clearing the ball the flanks is a safer option then to pass it to the marked TF, and he chose safer option there. He was doing what he told when clearing the ball.
What are your TF’s attributes such as anticipation, off the ball? I think they are also related to the situation.i think i just have a disconnect between real life football vs in game football. by having a TF should mean hes the default out ball unless theres clearly a person right in front and in the way of the player kicking it towards the TF. vision shouldnt be an issue, for CBs and GKs especially, they should know the TF is gonna be, its not like a player making a run in behind and needs a fabregas type player to play that perfect ball through 3 players. i just need the ball be punt up to the center of the pitch where the TF always is and rely on him to win the header. TF being marked is a non-issue, or it should be. clearing it out is the safest option, im not playing on very defensive mentality.
my TF has +15 anticipation, strength, jumping, balance, teamwork, bravery, heading. 11 off the ball but i cant see how off the ball applies in his situation, he just needs to be in the center and win headers.
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14 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:
Yes, but exceptions are not what's impactful here. A CD w/pass it shorter who isn't capable of playing the ball won't boot it up the pitch because he isn't hard coded to (the NCB comes with "take less risks" + "More direct passing" which will see him hoof it 24/7). The CD will also provide you that defensive aerial profile w/out the liability. The passing meters changes I've suggested above will sort the issue you're having with his teammates w/out nullifying your attacking threat.
On your second question on utilizing a player with poor mentals:
- They're far less punishing in a high lines system, at least in comparison to a structured defensive approach where you can't afford to have your players make mistakes. Mistakes made higher up the pitch won't necessarily result in a goal scoring attempt and you're set up to score yourself if you do go behind.
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I would say it's dependent on the position you're looking to play them in. An AMC strata Winger(a) for example, doesn't need good mentals to be effective since you're only asking one thing of him (beating his man, getting to the byline and crossing the ball).
- On a central defender, I would avoid such players in either approach. However, in a high press w/a high defensive line other attributes like pace become mandatory as well, so you might feel more forgiving of a player w/slightly poorer judgment but the athleticism to execute your style.
What's his profile like? At the top flight level I'd be uncomfortable with a CD with mentals below 12 in the key areas. For a standard defensive line I'd be prioritizing strong/tall center backs with 14-16 mentals. Ideally you'd like one of them to have a little turn of pace as well.
- I'd view the ability to pass the ball as a bonus, but the individualized passing meter changes can really help you navigate a poorer quality squad in transitioning the ball forward effectively/efficiently.
isnt that the opposite to teams in real life? you'd expect worse teams who play more conservative, defensive football to have worse players but youre saying to play defensive you need even better mentals? theres no way you would think the average, bottom half of the table, CB would have better mentals than a top 4 side CB.
my NCB has 14+ key, 13+ preferable except for composure. CB has 15+ mentals aside from composure
i've already set the passing to standard for the past 5 games.
1 hour ago, ibrahim.akbyk said:But roles effect eachother’s play. Like being a passing option. When somebody in your def-line has recieved the ball, he generally have only 3-4 short passing option which include DLP on midfield strata. So if opposition press high with 4 people, then your player actually has 0 option to short pass and hoofing the ball. When Guardiola at Barca, he subs a forward with defence against high pressing Real Madrid, to set up play out from back. When you instruct to pass it shorter with this setup, it would kinda counteractive thing against yourself. Add to this play with balanced mentality which is about relative low risk.
which is all fine with me. if theres no short option, hoof it forward but at least hoof it to the TF, thats what hes there for, but they rarely do. the game recognizes the cross field ball to the semi-unmarked wide player as a safer option than the TF who has an opposition defender near him. i am much more confident in my TF winning the aerial duel than for the cross field ball to even be accurate let alone keep the ball at the end of it.
ideally i want to play a few passes in the back to encourage the other team to come forward and open up space behind for us to go long.
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9 hours ago, Cloud9 said:
I would then look to the attributes of the players in your defensive setup.
Defensive blocks require reliable players w/good mentals (among other things) or they will continue to make mistakes under pressure. If your CB "fits" the NCB role, then he is likely a huge problem (and I would guess that problem is not isolated to him). Squad building is always important, but w/ a system like this it can be especially punishing.
On the tactical side, the changes you've made since then have compounded the issue and making the changes I've laid out above will go a long way (but it's not a silver bullet to all the problems). The NCB will hoof the ball and even when playing it short he will continue to do so. Changes to more conservative fullback roles will help if the ball is getting played into the channels over the top (as is the case in that last screenshot), you're asking a lot of your two CBs as is.
- x2 WB(D), WB(s) + F(s), FB(a) + FB(s) are all good go pairings when you need to stabilize the defensive line.
If you're unhappying with the passing, leave it on standard or direct and do individualized passing meter changes and drop the TF.
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TF naturally act as a hoof the ball to me magnet. If that's not what you're going for, a midblock w/a PF(s) can make a more fluid defensive style accessible.
- A 4-4-1-1 would be another option.
The danger to a less direct approach as an untalented squad is that you can get pinned back by the oppositions press.
then how should bad mentals CBs in the game be utilized? you cant play a high press with them, you cant play low block with them.
im not expecting anything from NCB with the ball, hes basically just a 6'4 CB who i rely on to win headers. its everyone else thats constantly hoofing the ball thats why i adjusted it to shorter passing
hoofing the ball to the TF is 100% acceptable in my case but thats not whats happening
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54 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:
Passing shorter w/ your current approach is making you a non threat to the opponent and you're inviting too much pressure to not concede w/out any real pushback. Going direct will help solve this issue. A much lower defensive line can contribute to this problem as well, I'd bump it up a standard.
The IWB is fun but will leave you defensively exposed when the ball is turned over, which is problematic for your setup. I would go for a more traditional role on the left hand side. Drop the NCB role for a CD as well, NCB is a role I would avoid entirely.
i had it on standard DL in the beginning and standard passing and it was just constant hoofing the ball then pushing forward then conceding from the opposition hitting one back over the top. we still are
3 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:I'd wait for a patch before kicking yourself too hard about this. 1v1 defending especially in central areas still needs work.
fm23
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we're an inferior team, my CBs cant match opposition strikers' pace, but we keep conceding goals like this. i dont want my players positioned so far up field
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(not at my laptop so im using rate my tactic)
tempo is middle and no work ball into box ticked in the base tactic, i only ticked them in my last 2 games when they kept taking pointless long shots from way out when they could've clearly passed it. neither TIs made a difference, i just turned my PC off when we had 8 long shots from 11 by half time. IW, CM, Mez all have high composure, work rate, teamwork, decisions plus high passing and vision.
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5 hours ago, Cloud9 said:
Sounds like something else is going on with your squad.
like? i switched it back to a WB/A and we started winning again
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FM23 all my player values dropped to a fraction all of a sudden, getting bombarded with lowball bids
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
after a phenomenal season my players, who are all in their early 20s and have +3 years left in their contracts, saw their values dropped SIGNIFICANTLY.
my 23 year old ST who scores +40 every season averaging +7.5 rating went from peak 90 million value start of the season to 30 mid season now 10M after the current season and im getting bombarded with garbage 6M bids. same with all my other players who are supposed to be high value.
end of may my CB 35M value, mid june 5M.
i got +50 bids in a week cause i think the AI perceives them as being undervalued and all my players are upset for rejecting bids. insane.