[FM20 Contract Clauses added in 'Create A Club']

Heeeelllooooo! Is anybody out there!?????

[FM20 Contract Clauses added in 'Create A Club']

I would like to request a feature is removed not added!

I love the Create a Club feature. But one (of several) problems is that when you create your squad, you suddenly find a lot of clauses have been added to player contracts that weren't there when you added the players!? What is worse, it seems to be somewhat random, so you can't even leave out players that have these clauses added. Unless you're one of the biggest clubs these clauses create havoc with your wage budget, doubling or even tripling it in the first year! This is completely unworkable for smaller teams. I tried replacing a Brghton squad with a load of my favourite young wonder kids, but the wage budget jumps from 975k which I try to limit to 500-600k but it quickly climbs to 2.5-3 million!! Another knock on effect is that a lot of the other players also want improved contracts. Some U17s even have ridiculous future professional contracts agreements of 30-60k!! This is just unsustainable for most clubs to be paying a 17 yr old still playing in the U18s 60k! Not even Barcelona or RM would pay this.

This is in FM20. I don't know f t was changed or fixed n FM20, as my OS won't run FM21. But t would be good to know for future reference. Either way, please fix this for FM20! Thanks

 

[80% FM injuries vs 100% real life injuries!?]

On 18/11/2019 at 15:05, Seb Wassell said:

I'm not actually sure this is possible. You can change the Occurrence Ratio, but that just changes how injuries are shared out, not the total.

As per above, I'd be interested to know if/how you affect the overall number.

The largest category by far in FM is short term injuries, 1-5 days. We have about the right proportion of short term to medium term to long term when compared to reality. In versions prior to FM18 we had too many long term and too few short term.

I would actually strongly argue for the opposite. As you say, "X not being fully fit" is commonplace in reality. However, many FM Users remain determined to only field players with 90%+ condition when in actual fact this is overkill. In reality, most players operate in the 80%-90% range for the majority of the season. The effects of fielding "unfit" players are there, but often avoided by User action. The AI is much more willing to use players below "optimal" fitness. That being said, if you have examples of it either being too easy to keep players fit (condition not necessarily injuries) or unfit players not being impeded by this during the match please do get them posted in our bugs area and we'll investigate.

Obviously by reloading the save you are invalidating/changing the experiment somewhat, but injuries are not predetermined in FM, nor should they be. Instead, every factor that could accumulate towards a player being injured is evaluated and contributes towards the chances of that player suffering an injury at a given point given the appropriate action taking place (instances in training, matches, illness, etc.). If you were to reload the same point, with a decent enough sample size, 1,000 times you would certainly expect to see variance and anomalies, but generally you would expect to see the players that are more likely to suffer injury suffer more injuries than those less likely to suffer injury. If only the players that were likely to suffer injury suffered injury I would consider that a major issue. As above however, if you feel this is not well represented in FM, please do post some examples in our bugs area and we will investigate.

It does, but it sounds like you have some examples where it doesn't do this to the extent that you would expect. Please do get them posted so we can take a look.

For the purposes of this discussion, "injury" = injury occurrence incidence. 1 injury = 1 injury occurrence. We balance and monitor a number of injury details, but when it comes to "how many injuries are there", it is simply a case of how many injuries occur. The above link is useful for comparing how many players are injured at any one time, which is obviously more than just injury occurrence but time out and other factors too. An FM snapshot often compares quite neatly to the snapshot in the link, relative to the 80% figure and of course accounting for this being a static sample plucked from something that is wholly dynamic. Both the above link and FM consider a player to be injured when they are either in recovery or rehabilitation (red and orange injuries in FM).

Roughly, yes we do.

Per 90 minutes the overwhelming majority of injuries occur in matches, however given that (very) roughly only one 90 minute match is played for every 6 hours or so of training this number evens out in real terms.

Rather than positions (or roles) it is actions that correlate to injuries. Some actions are more likely to lead to injury than others. Of course, some types of players are more likely to perform (or be on the receiving end) of these actions. This is modelled. Every injury has a cause.

Yes. In fact following a reworking for FM18 the majority of our injuries are short term, as in reality. We introduced a new category of injuries, 1-5 days, most often seen in-game as a "tight" injury. Prior to this our overall numbers were correct but our split between short, medium and long term was not.

We have some very large internal spreadsheets - covering everything from overall frequency, severity, (average) time out, recurrence ratios and so on - and draw our real-life data from official and academic studies on injuries in football.

The simplest explanation for why we have 80% of "real life" injury numbers* in FM is perception. If 80% in FM feels like 100% of reality but 100% in FM feels like 120% when compared to reality, and assuming our Users do not keep meticulous spreadsheets, does the simulation feel real or not?

* "Injury numbers" = total occurrences. Everything from there on, such as time out, cause, etc., is either mapped to reality or the relative proportion of reality.

@Dagenham_Dave - Injuries being too low in non-professional divisions (only) is a known issue.

A proper detailed answer! Thank you! 

You said:

1/ "You can change the Occurrence Ratio, but that just changes how injuries are shared out, not the total"

2/ "The effects of fielding "unfit" players are there, but often avoided by User action"

3/ 'every injury has a cause', and also that the cause of injuries is an action. 

4/ "injuries are not predetermined in FM, nor should they be. Instead, every factor that could accumulate towards a player being injured is evaluated and contributes towards the chances of that player suffering an injury at a given point given the appropriate action taking place"

5/ "Rather than positions (or roles) it is actions that correlate to injuries. Some actions are more likely to lead to injury than others."

So, when my head physio informed me they were expecting 127 injuries during the course of the season, when there turned out to be 148! Does this mean I need a better Head Physio? Was 148 fixed at the start, all queued up waiting for appropriate 'actions' from me to trigger the next injury? That is to say, are physios like injury scouts. The better the physio the more accurate the estimation of injuries?

Do 'actions' (I put the word in inverted commas because I'm not sure exactly what constitutes an 'action'), only trigger an injury? Can actions prevent an injury? Does this mean it is struck from the queue, reducing the total injuries, or merely delayed? That is to say, going back to statement one, that you can only affect the occurance of injuries not the total. This implies that a set number of injury instances are going to happen, all you can do is affect whee and when? How/When is this total decided?

If the number of injuries is set is the spread of severity also set, or can you affect this 'actions' that minimise the severity, either via tactical & training choices, and the quality of your medical team. As hinted at above, do physios do any more than report more or less accurately injuries, or can they prevent or lessen the severity of injuries?

I admit I am kind of rediscovering this game, having stuck with FM14 for 6 yrs lol. There are so many new features to grapple with, which is a dream for any football nerd. But you need to feel you are actually affecting the game! I often felt with FM14 that I was like a kid with a plastic car. You know the sort you peddled, with lots of meaningless buttons on the dashboard. There were certain 'actions' I knew would affect the game engine, while others seemed to have zero affect (especially when playing a team bottom of the division lol).

 

[80% FM injuries vs 100% real life injuries!?]

On 16/11/2019 at 10:01, RBKalle said:

Good points...

I'll add a few extra considerations about FM and injuries.

* in FM20 Beta I've found quite a fair amount of "negligible injuries", those with 1-2 days of "orange Inj" status. I think we'd need a bit more of those, especially when schedules get crowded and there are shorter recovery times.
IRL, rotation is a necessity to preserve players. In FM it's almost optional unless you have unfit or old players. Speaking of which.

* Low fitness/condition should have a bigger impact. Currently you can field players with <90% fitness and it's not gonna be much of a problem. In actual football, you ofter hear (and can see) how "X isn't fully fit" and that actually affects his game.
FM should probably give bigger penalties for fielding not-so-fit players, thus encouraging rotation.

* Wear and tear injuries don't really seem to happen in FM. Despite the medical center, most injuries still feel completely random (actually I've had cases of "a player will pick up an injury tomorrow", with different players getting injured on the same day upon reloading a save). It can be the third-choice keeper in training, a guy with 4 Injury Proneness rupturing his Achilles tendon or the 34yo with brittle knees injuring his elbow.

Training intensity, overall fatigue and general injury tendencies (recurring issues, weakened body parts) should play a bigger role. At times it still feels like a RNG.

* Playing style should indeed affect injury chances. High-intensive gegenpressing should be much more taxing, instead players can go full-throttle for 90+ minutes with minimal penalties in terms of fitness and performance.

Yeah. Agree with all of this. I'm glad someone else had the patience to type it all out.

I guess my complaint isn't with the number of injuries per se, although it does seem very high (mostly in the 1st team btw), it's with the randomness of it. It doesn't feel like players who are prone to injuries actually get injured more, or that playing a slow passing game as opposed to a fast paced gegenpress makes any difference. But without going through some exhaustive testing process it's impossible to be definitive about it. It's all anecdotal. If they are set at the beining of the season and applied at random from week to week, then just tell us that's how it is, and we will either live with it or rage quit lol. But, if we can affect the level and severity of injuries wth lower intensty training/tactics, better physios etc, then it would be useful to know this. Like physios, apart from giving us the bad news, do better physios affect inury rates or just reduce the recuperation time etc.

[80% FM injuries vs 100% real life injuries!?]

33 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

A year or so back, they increased the amount of short term injuries and eased off on the long term ones to make it more realistic.

I'm hoping the new condition and sharpness indicators will make this side of the game more organic. Along with many others, I fall into the trap of not starting a player if they're below 90% condition. As if 89% is going to make the player so much more likely to be injured than 90%. It's nonsense, but it's a trap many of us have fallen into. This is a great change to this part of the game IMO. 

I don't even like to start a player who is lower than 97%!! If I have to I usually sub them early, and if a lot of players had to be started with low condition (say 90-95%) due to fixture congestion (and yes injuries!) I turn the intensity right down and switch to a slow, short passing game). I'm not sure any of this affects injury rates. If it does, I'd like to know how, beyond the obvious. I mean the AI sets up a lot of rest periods in training! My tendancy would be for a lot less lol, which is partly why I leave it to the AI. And I'm careful to rotate my squad (more than they like actually), so what else can I do to reduce the injuries? Or is it just a fixed random number within a set range, selected at the start of the seaon by the AI?

[80% FM injuries vs 100% real life injuries!?]

So just ******** answers then, thanks. How shocking. NOT! No, I'm not doing anything 'drastically wrong'. As I took the time to explain, I rotate my squad and keep them all match fit with friendlies, and left the traning schedules to the AI. (Is the AI set up to f*ck you over with increased injuries?). But my actual question was 'how does it work'? I get that the scout report tells you how prone a player is to injuries, but looking at the injuries, that didn't seem to make much difference. Two of my worst players for injuries were 'Above Average', and 'Low'! So it seems random, like there is nothing much you can do about it. So I repeat, How does it work? All other commentary about me, my playing skills etc are pointless and frankly ignored.

[80% FM injuries vs 100% real life injuries!?]

There are two things that make this game pretty much unplayable. The first, a topic for another thread, is the transfer market and the inablity to sell your players, leading to bloated squads etc. The second is injures.

SO MANY INJURIES!!! I mean wtf!!!

I was informed by a member of staff (presumably the head physio) that they were expecting around 127 injures during the course of the season! This seemed a bit high to me so I googled it, and found out that the average number of injuries for a Premiership team is 38! So, without kicking a ball my physios were expecting more than 3x the average!?? Now I went out and got the best coaches and medical team I could. We have superb training facilities, so how was this figure calculated? What was it based on? I was doing a save on create a club which only allows you to have the number of players at a club that were already there in the real team, so I already know that the 38 was based on the same sized squad. I let my AM set up the team training, U23 &U18 Managers did their respectve training. At the end of the season we actually had 148!!! I didn't play a fast game or gegenpress, I didn't overplay players. I rotated the squad, played friendlies to keep everyuone fit. So why the ridiculously high number of injures. To be honest I started to play a second season, but rage quit after 4 big injuries, and an assotment of lesser injuries, 3 of them to some my star players, before the season had even started. Two of them were to players I was trying to sell. And two were both RBs. I don't think this is a coincidence. I've noticed from previous iterations of the game, that it is rather fond of injuring all the playes in one position. Usually the wingbacks, and one of the players  was trying to sell was of coure a WB. Which is why I now have three of each in all the squads and never loan any of them. Because I know as soon as I do it will trigger the 'injury crises' storyline. So does anyone have a definitive answer on injures, becaue I don't think I am going to bother again unless I can get a handle on it. It's hard enough dealing with the schitzoid personalities who loose it at the slightest excuse, but this injuries thing is just too much. Answers like 'it's just part of the game, mate' can go suck a big one lol. Serious answers only please. Thanks :-)

[Why do so many crosses go out for corners?]

Well, Ive just started playing FM20 (after sticking with FM14 for the last 6 years lol) and it's still a huge problem! Nearly every cross is blocked, no matter how good the winger is! The most enfuriating thing is, they get to the byline and then wait for the defender to get in position before kicking it against them???? I mean, wtf is that all about? If it were just poor programming, but indicated that your attackers pace attribute wasn't high enough to pass the defender, or their crossing attribute was too low, I would get it. But even with good wingers, against very poor defenders (as in friendlies), this happens maybe 9 out of 10 times?? That must be deliberate because the game is just a set of program instructions. The question is why? It means that teams don't need good wingers, they're pretty much redundant, what you need is players with very high corner attribute and players with good heading/jumping. If it's a bug, it needs sorting, because it is very irritating, especially if you play a system with wingers (like me! :D).