[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread]

16 分钟前, Ghost4928说:

As people who follow FM, we all know that the devs try to emulate real life football as much as possible. That is something we all agree that they try to do, and they do very well.

 

So my question to people who are currently complaining about the lack of goals from IF/IWs who dribble and cut in from wide areas: how many goals do you actually see in real life where you have a winger pick up the ball in wide areas dribble and cut inside before curling one in at the back post?

For people complaining about crosses being too overpowered, how many goals do you see scored from crosses? For example, of the 20 goals scored in matchweek 11 of the Prem, I've counted 6 from crosses, and that doesn't include corners/free kicks.

For people talking about corners being overpowerd, West Ham have quite literally just beaten Liverpool because of 2 corners, one near post header and another far post header.

 

The only point I can agree with is the lack of goals from central play and possession stats.

But otherwise, the ME actually does mirror what football is like right now on the most part, which is what the FM devs promised.

The IW/IF should try to cut inside and fail or pass the ball instead. The problem is not the end product but the process. 
 

But I do think that with the current match engine if the IW/IF can cut inside and pass properly there will be possibly too many goals given the horrendous defending behavior,

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Feedback Thread]

Pros:

- Deadline day seems unexpectedly promising... at least in my first one.

- Wide center back looks good when in possession.

- Ball deflection is a big improvement.

Cons:

- Staff meeting is simply a reskin.

- In general the defensive positioning is bad and players look like they have no sense of space and other players' movement. For example, in a 352 WCB-WB system, both WBs always position themselves high up on the pitch, leaving a gap between WB and WCB. AMLRs are often unmarked in those areas. This totally defeats the purpose of having WCBs in defense. They are expected to cover the space left behind by a pressing WB with a lateral shift in D-line. If you play with a flat 4 defense it is not good either. CBs are too easily pulled out of position leaving a hole behind. Defenders seem to react too slowly to what happens. I often see defenders get dribbled past while still turning.

- The player movement after corners is bad. Players don't react to loose balls as quick as the counter-attacking players. Luckily counter-attack is nearly non-existent and players just dribble to the sideline.

- IF/IW is taking the ball to the sideline too much. If IF/IW finds it difficult to cut inside, they should look for support from teammates immediately but not run down the flank and then turn.

 

[Football Manager 2022 Headline Features - In The Studio Part 2]

5 小时前, Johnny Ace说:

I guess they'll do another match engine video with Dick & Dom fumbling around with the presets tactics

Thing is, we'll see the beta ME & get all excited then within a couple of weeks it'll be patched & completely different 

One thing in the first video was the player movement, they look like they turn a lot snappier than in FM20, where at times it looked like the players where playing with a cast on their foot

I remember last year the beta ME looked promising then they said there was a bug about morale giving the player an advantage. After that fix the ME felt different. So this year I would take the ME show with a pinch of salt.

[Football Manager 2022 Headline Features - In The Studio Part 2]

What's the meaning of a deadline day revamp if the transfer AI has not improved?

What's the meaning of a staff meeting revamp if suggestion from staff has not improved?

They have not learnt anything from the failure of last year's scouting meeting.

[Football Manager 2022 Teaser Trailer]

50 分钟前, XaW说:

And there are no issues with posts like this. You can not like X, Y, or Z, and there will be no problems from the mods there. We might disagree with you, but only as a discussion, not as an official action as mods.

And we also don't know the plans for FM any more than you do, but I do like the way things are going. The graphics haven't changed all that in still, but the engine underneath sure are improved. And for me that's key, that my tactical instructions and the players I select to play change how things are on the pitch far outweighs some improved visuals.

For me, I have a much bigger concern regarding the manager AI in terms of squad building, transfers, and team management. And if I were in charge 100% of resources would go into those things, and just leave all visuals and match as is, because I really enjoy the match in FM21. But playing longer term saves, the game becomes easier due to a lack of competent squad building by the AI, and that is something I hope will be improved in the next version.

So everyone can, and will, have different opinions of how the game should be improved, and that is perfectly fine. But looking at how a select group of people on this forum reacts, does not mean that the general majority of fans mean the same. The ones in here might be more engaged in the game in some way, but FM as a brand does not simply lean on this community. A very decently sized chunk of FM'ers are not "gamers" in general. I know a lot of people who never play a game, other than FM. And the laptop they use have about the computing power of a toaster. I regularly have to help out people to install it through Steam, and that's not exactly rocket science for most of us.

And if the game had headed in a way where I would no longer enjoy the game, I would stop playing it. If they had listened to what a surprising amount of people have asked for, like the "Let me use my money on cars, house, wife, etc", I would be very turned off by the game. If I want that, I'd play the Sims. So, yes, I do think SI should listen to what users want, but I don't think they should take everything on board!

I agree that match engine and AI are key areas and IMO should be prioritized before things like press conferences. I do think graphics are important though, not for the aesthetics but for showing actual match events. In this way ME and graphics are closely connected.

The ME of FM21 is heavily boasted about but I actually don't think it's that great. A lot of things are still missing. I think I saw something very close to "cutting inside" in some older editions but in FM21 I only see running with the ball diagonally. Not to mention things like crossing with left foot on the right side. IF/IW never feels real to me. Low crosses seem to be non-existent. Actual addition of chip shot is good but isn't there too many? Some roles and attributes also seem less and less influential. I hate to see Manchester United picking Donny van de Beek and Paul Pogba as central midfield partners in a 4231 but can still get away with this unbalanced team picking. Central play is nice after two editions of dysfunctional AMC but crossing in wide areas is infuriating. The number of dribbles is unrealistically low.

To me the main improvement of the match engine in FM2021 is the back of central play. But it was there in older editions...

(And yes the proposed feature of using wages is too...irrelevant.)

[Football Manager 2022 Teaser Trailer]

6 分钟前, XaW说:

Nah, the loudest are usually not right.

And many complaints are valid, and we haven't said much about those. We've only cracked down on those who target SI staff, not the game itself. There is a difference there.

And for what it's worth, I also would like to see improvements to the matches, so there's no complaints about that. I hope the picnic tables are removed, at the very least!

 

5 分钟前, HUNT3R说:

The insults and destructive points get removed. We ask people to be civil when posting. Criticism is fine, but there's a line between constructive criticism and insulting/destructive posts.

Nothing is being shrugged off, but remember, SI have their plans. While they do listen to community feedback and suggestions, at the end of the day, it's their decision on what gets added, how it's added etc. Meetings are held, cost/benefit analysis used, etc so it's a process.

Of course some comments are too insulting and I appreciate the work of moderators. But I do think that the more evasive and less responsive the dev is, the more frustration will build up and eventually insults.

I know SI have plans and they have repeatedly emphasized that. But I hope the plans would not deviate too much from community wants. At the end of the day we want players to like the game. From the experience of FM2021 I believe there is some discrepancy there on what's important. If we think about some of the features last year like replacement of widgets by tablet, revamp of gestures/press conferences, removal of fitness percentage, they are actually not very well received (I guess maybe 50:50 at most). Even things as simple as the theme color misfires.

So I am quite pessimistic.

[Football Manager 2022 Teaser Trailer]

If you have that many harsh complaints in the community the game dev should really think if the direction of the game is correct.

To be honest, most of the complaints here do have their points and are quite constructive. You may say some of the suggestions may not be of top priority or too difficult to achieve (like FIFA-grade graphics) but you can't just shrug off all of them. I consider things like a change in 2D match engine background or a properly colored theme which does not hurt eyes quite realistically achievable. Yet we still don't get those.

[Football Manager 2022 Teaser Trailer]

Sometimes I wonder is it too much to ask for this and that? They can't even make a properly colored theme which does not hurt eyes...

[Should Mentality Be Removed from the Tactic Creator?]

刚才, herne79说:

hey are there as a starting point only, something for you to use and adjust depending on your players and opposition.  They may work in some situations and some presets may work better than others without adjustment, but they never have been tactics you can just load up and play.

However, that isn't communicated very well in game though.

When I mean "supposed to work", I mean it should work to a certain degree when it is put on a suitable team. Like you have a Barcelona team at its peak like a few years ago in real life, you use the tiki-taka preset, you face a weak opposition, then it is reasonable to expect that it should work like a tiki-taka. But if you still see the skillful defenders hoofing the ball for no reason, then there is something wrong.

[Should Mentality Be Removed from the Tactic Creator?]

Partially agree.

IMO it is not only mentality which needs to be removed, but also the concept of RISK. Risk is a situational concept but the game treats it in a simple way. In the game high risk means high tempo, more direct passing, getting forward, high LOE, high D-line. But in reality risk depends on how your team plays. For a big team playing patient possession football, playing direct passes can mean high risk as it risks the loss of possession. But to a small team playing counter-attack, playing direct and high tempo passes is actually less riskier than building up with short passes at the back. Thus some people advocate using a low mentality for possession football, and using a high mentality for counterattacking football, which is pretty counter-intuitive. 

IMO the tactics part of the game needs a big rethink. They set up presets but they don't work as intended. Some people think that presets are presets  and are not guaranteed to work but IMO they are SUPPOSED to work. I believe it is an evidence that the match tactics engine does not work as how they think it should work.

[Inconsistent/wrong statistics on different pages]

One pic is from analytical stats, another from player stats. The number of assists and key passes do not match.

[Too many clearances]

I don't know if this has been raised before but >10 clearances per game for CBs across the whole league is insane. I don't know if there is a difference in definition but I think it is at most around 6-7 clearances per game on some major statistics sites. In match I am seeing players "clearing the ball" or "removing the danger" when there is no pressure or danger and even when there should be a counter-attack attempt or build-up. I am suspecting this is related to issues mentioned in threads like the one below.

.

[Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread]

Dribble-down-the-flank-and-crosses-blocked 2021

[Football Manager 2021 - New Headline Features]

一小时前, tyro说:

Without more info how would you know? Looking at his attributes, he has good first touch, great heading, strength, technique not bad, etc. What League was it? Did the person retrain him. 

Fellaini played as a striker. Several wingers are being moved to fullbacks. Some start out in one position and a coach sees then as someone else. 

Again. It's not really showing a fault with the ME if someone with attributes that work can play suck a position. There may be other flaws, this isn't one. 

The info is in that reddit link. Phil Jones is used as a PF(A) in PSG and is retrained to have an accomplished rating at the position. Even in Ligue 1 I can't imagine a striker with 5 Off the ball 6 finishing is able to score 12 goals in 14 league games.

And now you mention that in real life wingers are moved to fullbacks. If you think of it, when Ashley Young got moved to the FB position in real life, his attributes actually got reworked in the new FM editions. The old Ashley Young in FM did not look like he can play at FB at all in FM terms. This kind of redistribution of attributes just isn't simulated in FM. Video games can't compare with reality in such a straight-forward way.

[Football Manager 2021 - New Headline Features]

8 分钟前, tyro说:

Actually, if he has the stats for it, he can play any position. It will only affect decision making a bit but if the position also gets trained why not. 

That doesn't make the ME bad. You're actually given the flexibility to use a player as you envision. 

 

Yes Phil Jones definitely has the attributes needed to be a top striker.

[Football Manager 2021 - New Headline Features]

9 分钟前, FedAt说:

@Manjusaka what's your opinion on set pieces and training systems, do you satisfied with it? Do you use set pieces editor? and in general i'm wonder how many people use set pieces editor and are pleased with it

In this regard I agree with SI that set-pieces should not be the prime focus at the moment but my reason is that the open play has so many things that need to be fixed first. I am satisfied with it as long as players follow the set-piece instructions and set-piece goals remain at a realistic ratio. Of course I will be happier if multiple set-ups can be implemented simultaneously, and if set-piece duties can be automatically assigned according to attributes so that you don't need to worry about messing up the set-piece set-up by replacing a tall player with a short one on the formation board. I believe there is a need for a better set piece editor in the long run though as in real life there are teams which really drill on it a lot.

The training system in the current state is at least quite aesthetically pleasing. I don't expect the training system to have a substantial effect on player development so I cannot say I am not satisfied. In terms of player development I am more concerned about the mechanics of new position development, lack of character of youth academy and the player trait system.

[Football Manager 2021 - New Headline Features]

The headline features are... disappointing. Clearly there is a large gap between SI and a large portion of fans in what features are desirable. Players play the game for the on-the-pitch tactics and squad building. You can easily see that in the forums. Players like to discuss how to emulate a tactical style and which players are cheap-to-buy wonderkids. I bet this is the core of the game to most of the players, but these are also areas in which FM has been stagnating.

In terms of tactics, we all know the match engine is just an approximation and we should not expect too high. But it is just...stagnating too much, sometimes dissatisfactory. SI gave us tactical templates, but they don't look like that particular tactical style at all even you played the style in a team that should be ideal enough. Playing vertical tiki-taka still funnels the ball to the flank resulting in blocked crosses? I am fed up with that. And every year there must be some positions or roles which are dysfunctional. One year it may be the half-back, one year it may be the raumdeuter, one year it may be the false nine. And sometimes you are unlucky enough to have the whole striker position lacking movement or the whole AMC not working. And all these positions and roles and duties are not even new. (IMO the roles and duties have been expanding too much without a clear defining characteristic for each role. And funny enough a single player can only be tactically fluid with a single role/duty even though the roles look so similar!) Counterpress looking like 2-3 players chasing a single ball from the same direction, Messi consistently having headed attempts in the box, non-existent low crosses...I am not even talking about the inability of the game to emulate some real-life play-style: the Luke Shaw or Azpilicueta type side-center-back, Fellaini acting as a target man in the MC/AMC strata, and also the overlapping center-back - I just saw today how Aaron Cresswell as a side-center-back overlapped the LWB Masuaku to deliver a cross.

In terms of macro-management, the financial side of the game has been way too shallow. I know it may not be the manager's job to run the financial side of the club, but the financial side definitely should have more impact. Dynamic competition prize money, economic downturn, owner decreasing investment due to his own financial hardship, Serie A flourishes again and draws a big chunk of sponsorship and investment...etc. And I am not even talking about the often criticized transfer AI - too many new signings get no appearances and get dumped next season, clubs signing players just for the sake of signing players...etc. Club vision? Good as a whole, but a vision of "spending as much budget as possible"? You must be kidding. Addition of new staff roles? I still remember I delegated the staff contract handling to the technical director just to find out that he only knew how to renew contracts without any intention to replace subpar staff members.

And now SI is boasting about the overhaul of press conferences? A side dish only which some of the players don't even want to bother with it. I don't think anyone is playing FM for the simulation of answering questions from press. I believe no one will be talking about this unless it goes as broken as the ever-overwhelming match shout. A nice end-of-season summary? Is UI improvement worth that spotlight?

 

[Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread]

4 小时前, rinso说:

FM never is, or has been, about the graphics.. you want graphics, go play Fifa..   FM is the stats and the reaism and immersing you into the game, otherwise why would 2d exist in the first place ?   

I guess the problem is not that the graphics are not good. The problem is that it takes a step backward compared to previous editions. 

[FM18 vs FM20]

Just revert to fm18 from fm20 and found that the match engine of fm18 is much more better in a few matches:

- strikers participate in build-up play

- players make passes during counter attack instead of running with the ball forever

- wide players do actually cross