[Transfered player still in my squad]

He'd be marked as ineligible for a league match if that were the case, no?

[FM25 and the future.]

Like the OP, my last real involvement with the FM franchise was back in FM12 (which I started playing again for a bit earlier in the year), though I did try playing FM21 but it was just so full of bloat and stuff that was just not enjoyable. And even on a decent PC it took so long to get through - it took hours to get through a game week, and I never messed with tactics or training. I think it says something that CM01/02 still has such an active community around it.

I think, in truth, this franchise was lost to me a long time ago and is never coming back. SI are locked-in to providing at least the same amount of depth currently, and stuffing in further features that don't really add much other than even more bloat (in my opinion etc).

["The future of football manager" discussion]

I don't really have much skin in this game - I very much lapsed back after FM12 and whilst I did try to get into FM20 - and only because it was given away free by Epic Games - I found that to be so horrendously bloated and unfun that I deleted it and it completely killed all my interest in the series. However, there's always a little part of me wanting to get back engrossed, I actually went back to FM12 a bit late last year and it was so much more streamlined and actually fun! I still delegated all press conferences/team talks etc (because they have always been awful), but it zipped along at a reasonable pace and I was actually able to play through seasons in a reasonable time-frame (which is a key consideration for me.)

Anyway, I do still follow these forums every once in a while, and having seen the announcement by Miles, whilst I agree with many others that having some transparency and engagement with the fanbase is good, I thought the actual content of his blog was very <shrug>. I accept that many want to see a much better 3D representation, so that's good for a lot of people and the inclusion on women's football is important - but outside of that, there's no actual hint of any things that change the core structure of the game aside from a passing comment about making it better for long-term saves. It's basically an announcement that is mostly devoted to saying "We're getting new graphics!"

I do fully get that a) the game is a while away still, that b) they are probably still working to lock-down the features and c) they need to keep these things back so it can be used in the PR blitz in the build-up to release - so I didn't expect any real depth to his piece, but at the same time I would've liked at least some breadcrumbs dropped dealing with some of the non-engine/graphic related stuff. Like, are they revamping/improving/completely re-doing the useless man-management tools available to deal with play grumbles, the boring, overdone press stuff, the social media junk? Is scouting going to be looked at fresh? Is training? All that kind of stuff - you know, where most of the playing time is spent. But nada.

Again, I didn't expect chapter and verse on this stuff, but some little teasers. I accept that the elephant in the room there is that they still want FM24 to do well, so they can't say too much, but still - from a lapsed player that currently can't even be bothered to try FM23 via Game Pass at no cost (other than time), then it would've been nice to have something to make me start thinking that perhaps FM25 could pull me back in.

[Liverpool in FM12]

So I'm no fan of the overly-bloated FM these days, so I've gone back to the last version I bought, which was FM12 and already it is so much quicker to get through stuff. I mean, there's still bloat, but nowhere near as bad as what it has become.

Anyway, I digress. I picked Liverpool and forgot just how awful the squad was back then - there's no depth, no transfer kitty and no interest in anybody wanting to buy Andy Carroll. I therefore need some help on a tactic that makes use out of the starting squad so I can survive long enough to get some cash and buy some actually-good players. I've tried playing a 4-1-2-2-1 (think of it as a 'V' in front of the defence), hoping to utilise Downing or Bellamy as a proper wingers on the left as neither are wide midfielders (dependent upon form), with Kuyt/Maxi on the right as a defence winger. I then have Adam/Henderson/Gerrard in midfield (based on form/who isn't injured) sitting in front of Lucas as my anchor.

The defence has my full-backs on Support duty and Suarez is up front (with Carroll getting the occasional game, but he's never going to be any good, is he?)

It hasn't gone well in my two attempts so far, being sacked at Christmas on my first go (albeit I had a variant of that formation) and I've just ended my second attempt which at least had Suarez starting to score a few this time.

I know it's a long time back, but does anybody have some tips they can give me?

Even some players I can buy with my meagre £7.5m transfer kitty to flesh-out the squad would be good, but the way I see it, everybody bar Gerrard, Suarez, Henderson and Reina are pretty much expendable (does Coates ever develop well?)

[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

For those that are unhappy with the state of the game on release, so long as you keep buying it Day 1 then SI have no reason to change the way they work. Why would they? The noise on this forum - regardless of how many years you've supported the franchise - is tiny compared to the number of players that will never experience and/or care about the perceived issues because of the way they play (i.e. pick a big team, press 'Go' and start again after a few seasons).

The only way SI will have genuine impetus to look at things is if one of two scenarios happen: 1) A serious competitor launches and starts eating into their sales; or 2) people just stop buying FM en-masse. Now number 1 just isn't going to happen any time soon, because which publisher has the resources & talent to take it on? And, as this forum proves year-on-year, number 2 seems unlikely as you all buy it anyway, even if you've been burned by a previous experience. It's like Stockholm Syndrome.

From SI's perspective, I have no doubt that they want to fix everything that they have as a bug but the reality is, as mentioned at the top, a lot of the bugs just aren't going to be seen by the majority of players (or cared about enough to curtail their enjoyment) - so to spend time/resources on a lot of stuff isn't commercially viable and never will be. Plus I'm sure there are already a few people working on next year's game in some capacity.

[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

4 hours ago, Overmars said:

Yes, I think the 66% stat was from human-controlled teams, with human-controlled teams winning 51% of their away matches. I think the point being made was that there was a reasonable difference between the two percentages.

Ah, I see. That does make much more sense, thanks.

[fm23 still too many old players in squads in future and not enough youth development]

This thread has been interesting, because you could go back 10+ years to see lots of talk about long-term AI squad building and the quality of newgens/development/reputation (either too good/not good enough/not getting played/not willing to go on loan etc). It's been an issue for years and years, just wearing slightly different clothes - I think I recall even as far back as FM 2007 having the problem of AI squads being awful once current players had retired.

I mean the simple answer to it is that whilst I have no doubt that SI do put some resource into looking at it and making tweaks, it's never going to be a massive priority (and I also accept it's probably a mammoth task to try and fix on such an old codebase). SI will put money and time into stuff that the majority of players are likely to experience - and like it or not, I'd imagine (and be fairly confident in saying) that the vast majority of the fanbase will pick a big club in a big league, play a few seasons (perhaps no more than 5 or 6), then quit and start all over again with somebody new. They will never encounter these issues (and many others that generate a lot of posts on here). This forum is not going to be anywhere near representative of the userbase as a whole in how they play.

I think those hoping for SI and their Sega overlords to do anything to change this are sadly misguided. FM is locked into a yearly release schedule and will always need new shiny stickers to put on the box to give people a reason to want to upgrade beyond database changes. Wasn't it FM21 (or 22?) where one of the touted headline features was being able to influence a nation's youth development, but somebody ran some really extensive tests and the actual impact was close to 0 - and it was confirmed by SI that it was working as intended? Again, most players would never, ever play long enough to ever see anything from that feature (even if it did drastically change things), but it sure sounds like a good thing to have!

I don't really blame SI, they are working within the constraints placed upon them, not just by Sega, but the userbase too - whilst people will say they would prefer SI to skip a year, I don't think the majority of players would. Besides, it would be commercial suicide, especially when, as I say, the vast majority of people won't even see/think/care about any problems.

The only thing that would ever see significant change (perhaps even building a new game from scratch) is if a worthy competitor showed up and started eating SI's lunch. But which companies can you see wanting to put in the money to take SI on? I can't think of any, and so this cycle will continue until enough people stop talking about how 'this will be the last time I buy it on release' and, you know, actually stop buying it (and the irony there is that if too many people stopped buying it, there's even less incentive for Sega to want to provide enough funding needed to fix everything).

And so the world continues to turn.

[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

2 minutes ago, bobbyb12345 said:

If the numbers are coming specifically from user matches I suppose it could just be bias of people managing bigger teams more regularly…

Yes, that's possible I guess, but then if that is the case it makes the comparison versus completely 'real life' meaningless in the context of the original question raised.

[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

On 09/11/2022 at 11:45, Jack Joyce said:

This is the second time I've seen someone mention home/away game balance in their feedback, but we're yet to see any convincing evidence that there's an issue.

According to our statistics, people have a win rate of 66% at home and 51% away from home so far in FM23, which is within the ranges you can see from real football above, especially considering that a lot of people don't adapt their tactics for away matches.

The AI managers are a tougher challenge this year, which means that you might need to adjust your plans when you're away from home. Teams will have a plan to hurt you! Just to show the increased challenge this year - the overall win rate is 58%, when in FM22 it was 62%.

It was easier to get away with just playing the same plug-and-play tactic every match before than it is now.

I'm clearly missing something in the maths, but I'm assuming the stats above (and those taken from your tests) are taken from years worth of games - so a good size sample. So with that said, a home win rate of 66% in FM versus 48% in the PL (for example) is a massive difference, and way outside of any reasonable range (which you'd expect statistically to be measured in the 2/3 points either side, not nearly 20%!)

Or am I really missing something obvious here?

[How useful is the 3D match engine to analyse play?]

I know that the 3D match engine is basically a graphical interpretation of what is going on under the hood - so whilst you may find an opposition striker can suddenly run at twice the speed of sound to pick up a ball that was 3 inches from your defender, this isn't actually saying that your defender was stood around admiring the crowd. So how useful a tool is it if you actually wanted to try and analyse your team's play? Can you really identify your player's faults when the interpretation can be so wildly outside the bounds of what is realistic? Does you really make tactical decisions based on what you actually see, versus what you know about how the match engine works from the pre-3D days?

Also, why is the animation in general so appalling? The 3D engine has been around for over a decade now and yet players still skid across the pitch, the ball seems to have magic physics, running animations are stiff etc. Do many people actually watch the matches or is it all instant result/commentary only?

[Around the World in 80 Clubs]

I've been reading the career updates forum a lot over the past week (following the awakening of a long-dormant desire to play FM) and the most interesting threads are those where people are doing something a bit different from taking a low-ranked club to the top or journeyman saves. I remember one brilliant thread from a few years back where somebody took a lowly Swedish club and, using youth only, wanted to rise not only to the top but, more interestingly, attempted to help raise the overall UEFA co-efficient of the country. I think issues with the game prevented it, but all the same it was an excellent - and different - type of challenge.

Anyway, I digress.

What came to me only moments ago was having some kind of 'Around the World' challenge, where the idea is to country-hop around the globe, managing a club in each country you hop to. The basic premise would be:

- Create your manager with no experience and start unemployed

- Pick any country as your start point; you have to win a domestic league title with the club you end up at before you can move country (you must resign when you win a title)

- You can only move to a country that borders your current location or, in the case of crossing oceans, the nearest country as the crow flies

- You have to take the first job you are offered in the top division of your next country

- If you are sacked before achieving a title win, you must wait for another job within the same country (but again, taking the first one offered)

- Your trip must encompass 5 continents

- You must end at the country you started at

The aim, of course, is to do this in the fewest number of seasons.

Now as we all know, the game gets significantly easier the further into a save you get, as AI managers are never much good at squad composition or dealing with newgens - so for a harder route, once you've won a title at a club you record how long it took and start a new game at a new country. That way, you are facing AI teams at their strongest (so winning in the EPL for example is going to be very hard if you are at a lower/mid-tier club facing the might of Man City in 2021).

If you go down this route, your created manager can have middling experience and skills to ensure you aren't waiting too long for a job.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

It'd be great to see people pick up the mantle of the challenge and read about your exploits!

 

[(FM21) The Ultimate Nearly Men]

This thread is a great premise and read, but I think the Brugge experience in particular shows the problems the game has in maintaining a challenge in long-term saves, because as you said, you shouldn't be able to win the CL that easily and if you started with Brugge from the game start I bet it would take a hell of a lot longer just to get out of the group stage, let alone win it.