Adonalsium
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Posts posted by Adonalsium
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Visualizing the tactic in possession would be easier if you could give some 2D View images of the general shape in possession (or GIFs / videos of how they play). This looks interesting, though, I've always wanted to figure out how to use that triple pivot in a system.
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Great results there. I like the passing maps - players all over the pitch, looks like everyone is getting involved. The wide positions in FM23 always felt difficult for me, but in FM24 at least I think a Wingback on Support would actually work better than a Wide Midfielder on Support - weirdly despite being a more defensive position it behaves better in an attacking setup than a wide midfielder or a defensive winger.
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Can you update with some pictures of what it looks like in-game? In possession (deep in the enemy zone and build-up) and out of possession defensive shape? Does it concede counters easily?
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On support or defend, I haven't noticed a great difference in the inverted wing backs. But I like having at least one more defend duty there. If you're by and far the best side in the league, by all means put him on Support duty though.
The overlap is just to coax the inverted wing backs to station themselves slightly higher up the pitch on average and give them a more attacking mentality.
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The way I craft a 4-3-3, I like a 2-3-5 shape in possession and I love midfielders. So the way I cram as many midfielders as possible into my system while playing a 4-3-3 is with the following shape:
The two defenders form a narrow base and the Regista combines very nicely with the inverted wing-backs to then form a bank of three in possession.
The following passmap is very common:
Build-up shape from a goal-kick below. You'll see one of the Central Midfielders has dropped deep while the other has pushed up. Inverted Wingbacks are wide options, allowing us to play out very easily.
In possession, you already see the loose 2-3-5 forming:
A common sequence in possession. Players overload one side of the pitch (notice the 4-on-3 in a tight space, leaving a spare man to pick out a switch of play to the other flank), and often the Central Midfielder (#8) on the other side of the pitch is left free to run into space behind. Many goals are scored this way.
One final screenie. I just like how this set-up creates situations where we often outnumber a back four 5-to-4.
This one's very similar to some others posted here but I like the simplicity of two central midfielders on attack. If I could have two ball-winning midfielders on attack, though, I'd replace them with those, haha. I just love a good BWM. The best middle ground is to just to tell your central midfielders to close down more often.
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Your system looks interesting - I'm curious how it looks in the match engine! Would you be able to post some 2D images of how it works out on the pitch?
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Much obliged with the images. It looks like a very wide 3-4-3 when building up from the back and progressing the ball, but then it narrows down a bit in the final third. I actually really like it when you had 4 players in the box and 3 players just outside the box, containing the opposition. I've found that effect is a bit difficult to achieve with something like a regular 4-3-3. Giving one of the CMs a player trait like "Arrives Late In the Box" would be interesting for those situations, if they are common. I'll try this out for myself too!
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What a great season! League Two awaits... this is where the jump up in quality starts to get really noticeable, I think.
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I'm honestly amazed that tactic even works this well! You essentially have no midfield and even your wingback is bombing forward - you must be conceding so many counterattacks. This is an interesting save, you don't see a lot of Swiss league saves.
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Could you add some 2D images of what the formation tends to look like in possession of the ball? Maybe when countering, and when in prolonged possession?
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I'm curious just what tactic you're using. Impressive how far you've already taken Kosovo! Have you noticed any general improvement in youth rating yet?
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A player in this league demanding Championship playing time really is delusional! Rainey needs to be put in his place.
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Great save! I really enjoy these sorts of games the most. I'm surprised there haven't been any players yet picked up by bigger clubs for big money.
I rarely have the patience for long youth saves myself, but usually when I try them, I try them with some sort of tactic I try to make unique. It kind of naturally pairs with a long term youth save to try to also build some very elaborate tactic that takes a long time to bed into the club culture.
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This is starting to resemble concern trolling. You have your answers. It isn't simple to quantify.
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I've been having a lot of difficulties with FM23's match engine, personally. Something about it, when I try to create possession tactics with a solid build-up phase (whether in a 3-2 or a 2-3 shape), it just never seems to work. Does anyone who has had success doing this have any tips to share?
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They're all correct. The Match Engine is a bit of an enigma at the best of times. Any instructions you put in are more like guidelines than rules.
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Directness of passing directly correlates to the average distance of each pass. If you ask someone to play more direct, you're asking them to operate with a more expansive passing range, basically. So that logically means you probably don't want anyone who isn't an elite passer and decision maker in your own team's context to do that constantly.
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In terms of roles, the Advanced Forward and Segundo Volante (on Attack) are considered to be extremely strong player roles in this match engine.
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An update...
A 4 at the back system was asked for, and I'm delivering! Sort of. An experimental system.
May I present to you:
SpoilerLet me explain the structure of this tactic and the ideas behind it.
Many years ago, around the time of FM16 to FM18 when three strikers up front and strikerless tactics were unstoppable, I was in love with the game of Football Manager. Around then I ran into a strange new tactic on Guido's FM blog which he had built around the concept of a Complete Wing-Back on Attack being isolated on one flank with the method of piling ball-hog roles onto the opposite flank. I took some inspiration from that, but I kind of ran the opposite way with it, if that makes sense.
First of all, as you can see, this is a very ambitious and attacking tactic. The reason I'm daring to go with a Complete Wing-Back on Attack - a total liability in defense - is because of the Balanced mentality. And I will freely admit that the mentality is not enough to cover for the weaknesses in this tactic! But that isn't the point.
The point of this tactic is to create overloads and isolate players on the opposite flank. Because of the Advanced Playmaker on Support on the right flank, and the Central Midfielder, AND the CWB - both runners off the ball for the AP - a lot of the play in this tactic is going to feature those combinations on the right. But that is going to leave space on the opposite flank. Often this means that your left-sided box-to-box midfielder is free, let alone the wing-back. It's important that you have players in these positions who can finish some chances. I've scored a few goals simply from the CWB pinging the ball all the way over to the wing-back on the other side, who dribbles to the edge of the box or into the box and shoots and scores.
The pressing line is nearly suicidal, as you can also see. Do NOT use this against better sides than you unless you really want to roll the dice. On the other hand... if you do face a better side with this, you could try lowering the defensive line to Standard (or even Lower) and toning down the high press to a mid-block, and also lowering the aggressiveness of the press. The positioning of the Advanced Playmaker so high up the pitch alongside the Inside Forward, Deep-Lying Forward to hold up the ball and the Central Midfielder to bomb forward on the counter, this tactic sets you up well for a counter-attack.
Keeping in mind the little anecdote above, you can also try switching the left-sided full-back to a wing-back position as a CWB(At) and switching the right-sided wing-back to a full-back slot as a Full Back or Wing Back on Support. Maybe then the left-sided Inside Forward can become an attacking midfielder or another striker, pushing inwards so to speak, to help create space and isolate the CWB on the left flank.
I'll provide one example goal below.
SpoilerThis is not nearly as well-refined as the 3ATB system, and I'd expect a wild variance of results with this - but I think it's fun, and more importantly, the same player roles and focuses on attributes remain for this system as they do for the 3-4-3. Download below, if you want:
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I'm glad to see it worked out in that one game. I will say that this system does not always work. I have had absolutely torrid games with this system where my players get pressed up high (I've come to especially dread a certain type of 4-2-3-1) and concede a lot of chances. I've not yet been able to entirely work out how to balance this, but the solution may be to try to add more midfielders. What I love about this system is that it can be very flexible, and doesn't just have one path to victory. I've had many games where I won through possession and many, like the one you posted, where we don't necessarily have all of the ball but are the only team to make anything of it. I am currently actually trying to work out one 4-at-the-back version of this system, as well as a two-striker one, so stay tuned for that one, if that interests you. A full "playbook" of tactics is really what I am trying to ultimately achieve for this system, but I encourage everyone to do it for themselves too.
As for what else you asked, yes, you can switch the roles as long as you keep the overall balance of the side. Keep the same ratio of support and attacking roles, or don't stray more than one or two away from the balance.
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As a slight update, this system is even stronger when you can find a central defender (for the Ball-Playing Defender on Cover duty role) who has good ball carrying and ball playing abilities apart from just being an alright defender. That player will carry the ball forward consistently into the space that is often vacant in front of the defence and really set the tempo of the game. I'd really recommend someone here who has both Dictates Tempo and Brings Ball Out of Defence. You will love the movements here.
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Yes, that's exactly how the system should be used! I like these tweaks. I have also made some slight tweaks to the system, though not many. Because I've recently acquired a player who can become a superstar at the striker position, I've been playing more of an out and out forward there (Advanced / Pressing Forward) when that player is on the pitch. It's in keeping with Total Football principles: if you have a world-class player, let them do their thing. Something I find that is important and has an effect is also setting up the correct pressing triggers and opposition instructions. This system is great when you manage to limit your opponent to the sides of the pitch. To that effect I'm showing all sided players to the foot on their side of the pitch and telling all of my players save the center-backs to mark tighter. The front three and CM also tackle harder.
Something I've long wanted to make work in this system has actually been a libero. I want them to push up just slightly and sit in front of the two WCBs (on defend duties), and below the DM and the CM. I'm going to be experimenting with that. Here's some results from recent games:
That 5-0 game, we didn't allow a single shot on target from Frankfurt. It was total domination.
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You could call the trait many things but a simple "Shoots Hard and Low" would work in my books. It's definitely a Finishing trait, you need excellent shooting technique to really be good at this IRL. Maybe a combination of "Shoots with Power" and "Places Shots"?
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Something I've noticed with the match engine is that players almost never shoot close to the ground, but I get about five highlights per game of a player just absolutely skying the ball into row Z. I'd really like to see more low shots in the game, maybe even as a player trait, because it's a useful skill to have in real life too.
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RMD not performing but fine with IF/a
in Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion
Posted · Edited by Adonalsium
The RMD is a nothing burger role, a fossil created just because Muller once joked about something. Should really be removed. No real team in the world has ever used a role like that.