[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

I didn't make that many changes to be fair, Just move the D-Line to the middle. Move the left midfielder to the striker spot and copy the original strikers settings over. That should be about it.

How do you decide which of your strikers to set as targetman? Or do you not play with targetman?:-) If you do, still have it set to feet or change up that at all?

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Anctiously awaiting testing it myself:-) Thanks for not giving up on this one Hough!

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

How are the Villa games coming along?:-)

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Looking forward to trying this, looks more like my favorite formation (4-2-3-1 deep). So bored with the 4123 so this will be a great change of pace in the game for me:-)

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

I find it strange that you're having difficulty against a wide diamond formation with a 4-1-2-3, because if anything, you should actually have the advantage in this case. You are packing the midfield and playing through the middle, where the opposition has only two players (AMC and DMC), plus there's a gap between them in which your two MCs usually sit.

Here's just one example of me playing against a wide diamond:

I also used some OIs, like tight marking the AMC and both STs, plus showing all players onto their weaker foot. Usually I don't use OIs at all, but when I play big teams, I tend to use at least some. The main thing is not to go overboard with the "close down" OI. That's the one that makes your team loose shape and open up gaps for opposing players. In my own game, I never use this particular OI, but I do use the other ones, because they don't affect your team's positioning so drastically.

That is strange indeed, maybe it is more squad related? My players simply don't fit that well vs the Diamond? I tried man-marking the AMC with my DM and it helped alittle but still loose consistantly vs same skill-level teams. Will try your tight marking trick and see if it helps but cannot see any way I'd dominate Barca like that:-)

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Thanks for the interesting reads and inputs on FM tactics Hough, go enjoy life and the game:-)

Any chance to convince you to take a look at the 4123 with very rigid? See if you see something that should be changed once one sets it to very rigid?:-)

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Yeah, I know... :-) Allready tried it and did not work too well.

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

The problem with using OI on the AMC Is that the defenders are pulled out of defence thus leaving it more vulnerable to the strikers. Also noticed that many goals against come from throw-ins that the opposition have close to my own byline:-)

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

i never lost a game with classic 4123 tbh

always score 150+ goal a season with pato aguero and rooney upfront

2 years = 300+ goal

my save game crashed and i cant load it

too bad

How many games were vs 442 diamond with ML/MR? And how many of those teams were even close to your team when it comes to quality of players?

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Alittle off-topic from the current train of discussion but I have alittle info about the 4123.

Did the simple change to very rigid (without touching anything else) and it did improve the tactic slightly. It still struggles vs the same thing as it did with balanced though:

After hundreds of games I have found only one weakness in the 4123 and that is vs 442 diamond with ML and MR (not narrow in other words). You'll loose 70% of matches vs this formation and almost always loose them stats wise (meaning wins are usually lucky ones). I have yet to find a good solution and since it dominates all other formations it is usually not a problem, but can send you out of cups.

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

The reality is that a majority of teams in the world cup played narrow formations, thus making the 4123 (and the FM ME) very up to date and a realistic projection of the trends in real world soccer :-)

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Obviously there is more to the tactic rather than just setting the Philosophy to very rigid but setting it this way creates a fantastic defensive base for your side all you need to do then is add the attacking elements.

I know this might sound big headed but i think I've hit Genius status now :-)

Ofcourse there is, but it seems the offence in the 4123 is set up pretty decent allready, most people reporting good results with v. rigid philosophy. Would love to know what you think if you took a look at that formation with v. rigid some time though (guessing you got your hands full with the winger one atm:-).

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Mr. Hough,

I'm using your 4-1-1-2-2 tactic at the moment, with the problem of conceding a lot, so I wanted to change it to very rigid, but is there a way to convert the classic tactic to a wizard tactic?? Cause' I can't find it...

Thanks again... :-)

There is but it takes time, screenshot each position and team settings and then apply them manually to a wizard tactic, setting the sliders on the wizard tactic to the same as they were on the classic one. Not 100% but close enough.

P.S Trying out Rigid version of the Hough/JP 4123 now, exited to see if it can actually improve it!

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Looking forward to trying out your version of the rigid 4-2-4/4-1-1-2-2, I'll try to use my experience with the formation to give some helpfull feedback.

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

I had some success with a similar formation to the one you posted here Hough, but there was no DM, instead there was one box to box MC and one attacking MC, the formation was very rigid and very attacking. Both AML and AMR were inside forwards usually or one was inside forward and one was winger.

Scored alot of goals but because of the two MC's being semi and all-attack minded it was not as stable in the back, same problem as this one:-) Maybe if you had one DM and one ML and just one AMR?

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Seems to struggle vs Diamond (with ML and MR) and less effective vs 433.

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

My experience so far is that it far exceeds the 4123 in creating chances, but is far less stable when it comes to defence. Like a few others I have experienced trouble away from home. Seems to me like a formation based more on luck and thus less "stable". You'll create more chances than the opposition but you have to take the chances you get or you loose.

Seems also to be pretty dependant on great strikers (good finishing and composure esp.?) Since you will need to score on many of your CCC since your opponent usually gets a few too. I can see that if one were to try to do as good as possible in FM one could have two sets of tactics, one very defensive that was made purely to keep possession and deny chances and then this one for scoring goals.

Depending on the match you start with either defensive or offensive tactic, then change as the game progresses. Get a lucky lead with the defensive one? Then maybe keep it on, down by two? Change to the 4-1-1-2-2 and score a few goals, then back to defensive when you take the lead:-)

For instance you could use the 4123 and 41122. Change back and forth as the match progresses, all you need is one MC that can play AMR/L and one striker that can play AMR/L, then the formation is interchangeable without subbing:)

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Testing it now, looks nice:-) Thought targetman would be used, seems it is not from what I can see so far. Any tips on what kind of striker to play left/right? Is it ment to be one big guy and one playing off him? Settings seem totally similar to me:-)

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

didn't u said it's wizard?

I would also really prefer wizard.. it is the future!;-)

Simpler interface and just as detailed for the perfectionist.

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

I'd say it was proberly about a 7 or 8, I've just got in from work slightly ****ed, LOL

Thanks, so to do as good as you can (no matter the formation/style) it's still best to play 4123 then.. :-) And just go this new one if one absolutely want to play wingers?

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

How would you rate your 41122 vs the 4123? On a scale from 1-10 where 1 is really bad tactic and 10 is the 4123:-)

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Really looking forward to seeing this 4231 tactic, my favorite formation but have not been able to make it work in FM2010. Basicly haven't played the game for months because I was bored with the old formation but seeing as this new tactic is on it's way I am getting excited again!

Wonder how it will fair in the 2011 edition... :-)

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

I am a big fan of the 4231 deep with two inside forwards at AML/AMR, one creative AMC and a lone striker. Been trying to tweak the 4123 to work as a 4231 deep but no luck yet, let me know if anyone else have any luck with this as it is by far my favorite formation (aswell as most World-cup coaches it seems:).

Looks like this without defensive line:

DM DM

AML AMC AMR

FC

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Wich one has the best defence? Cause I'm leaking a lot of goals in classic version.

The best one for not conceding is the Hough/Woody one, the best one for scoring goals is the final unbeaten one. I Suggest starting with the Woddy tactic and then changing to the Final unbeaten one should you fall behind and need a goal:-)

Then when you take the lead change back again to the Woody one to not concede.

[Mr Hough 10.3 Tactics]

Is it possible to get you to list the absolute BEST players for MC and L/R/Centre striker positions? For someone trying to assemble the perfect team:)

Also looking forward to seeing the results (and what changes made) to a AMC tactic based off the 4123! Oh and thanks for super tactic insipration:-)