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Everything posted by SFraser

  1. It is a lot less complex than it seems, alot less complex than this thread might make it seem. Once you get into it you will realise that it is all rediculously simply, and you will wonder why you never thought of it first
  2. No they wont. Touchline Shouts are shortcuts for controlling tactical instructions, so if you have ticked ANY tactical instructions to adapt them manually, they will not be controlled by the touchline shouts. Shouts do not over-ride the tactical changes you have specifically made to your team. This area of "customisation versus ease of use" is one of the big issues in the current Tactical Interface, and no doubt a really complicated problem for SI. The current system will not over-ride your specified tactical instructions, and therefore the Shouts will not work with those specific instructions. You can however leave some of the key instructions unticked and manipulate them with shouts, while unticking specific key instructions for individual players and set them manually. This gives you something of the "best of both worlds" but is not perfect.
  3. "Focus" basically equals "size" of training or quantity of training. It is the actual amount of training you want to do, based on 1 notch per attribute = 1 equal "lot" of training. Where every Category slider is set exactly to the number of attributes in that category, 3-5-5-4-3-2-3-5 for outfield players, each category has a Focus of one and is training each attribute at exactly the same level. If age were removed from the equation then a training schedule of notch positions 3-5-5-4-3-2-3-5 would produce a completely balanced schedule at lowest possible level of training, so this is "Focus 1" for all Categories. Focus 2 for all categories would double the training, but without biasing any category. Focus 2 for ONE CATEGORY would double the training received by one category compared to all the others. You would expect it to improve twice as fast as the rest. Now untill someone figures out what increased levels of training does for perfectly balanced categories, I cannot tell you exactly what the benefit is from a high workload versus a low workload with similar biases, but I think everyone would logically assume that higher training = more training. From what I know of the game, I would assume that low workload means you get less control over a player, i.e. get to move around a smaller percentage of the CA that changes each month. Higher workloads mean you control a greater percentage of monthly change. That is my assumption. It is just an assumption. However if it is wrong, then higher workloads would be pointless, unless I am missing some huge point somewhere along the line. If you ever try to think of training in terms "2x this, half more of that, 3x the next" then that is exactly what Focus is. It means these "multiples" of basic training levels. Focus 1 = 1 notch per attribute, Focus 2 = 2 notch per attribute and so on. It is a way of keeping the basic principle of training attributes, while easilly being able to manipulate relative actual quantities. If this doesn't make it clear for you, let me know and I will try again.
  4. I like the sound of that one personally. A World Cup Tactical Match Day thread I think would be excellent for the forum. As long as the comments and discussion was kept on topic and in the theme of the T&TT forum, I think the thread would be a different beast altogether from other World Cup matchday threads in other forums. I could understand how the Mods might be concerned it would be a duplicate to other Matchday threads, and generate similar kinds of discussion, but as I said if it was on-topic and tactical only it would be a great thread for this forum. I can imagine it being something that I and other users would really enjoy. A match on in one window/on T.V. and the thread open and reading the tactical analysis and tactical discussion of the game from other users. Would certainly trump the analysis and punditry of all the mainstream media, and very likely be a big help to a lot of people to see tactical concepts explained using a real match, ask questions about what is going on/how to set something similar up and more besides. Excellent suggestion Crouchaldinho. The success of that one-off World Cup thread could maybe be used to judge the merit and ease of maintaining more regular Tactical Matchday threads for other competitions in this forum.
  5. It's almost certain I will release something new sometime but I cannot guarentee when. The fact I am so active on these forums means not releasing new schedules sometime in the future is almost an impossiblity. However that wont be untill I have developed something I want to release, and while I have refined and improved the schedules I currently use for my own players, I have not developed anything for community use so far beyond what has already been produced for download.
  6. Sorry I should have said, it's more a General Goalkeeping schedule for players around 23-24 to 30. Should still produce better overall results than the other two schedules but may not produce the rapid Physical improvements in youngsters, or prevent the rapid Physical declines in Veterans so use them at your discretion.
  7. Both training Goalkeepers and improving their ability is tougher than outfield players. Training is tougher because they have fewer Categories to train and those Categories have either many attributes or few, and so the Schedules are very, very sensitive to even the slightest misbalance in favour of less important/relevant attributes. My original goalkeeping schedules were slightly misbalanced in favour of Strength and goalkeepers would rapidly improve their strength. Improving the ability of goalkeepers is tougher because they need high ratings to get regular CA increase, and those can only come from good goalkeeping performances behind a defence that isn't coping with the opponent. With goalkeepers that are not already good it is easy to go from one extreme to the other with little work to do as the team plays well, then get absolutely destroyed when the team plays badly. It is very, very hard to develop a goalkeeper at your club that is not already first team quality. Remember that performance, match experience, club reputation and player personality determine CA gain while Training simply shifts those points around into the desired places. I have designed a new Goalkeeper schedule that I am getting far better results with in terms of stuff going in the right places. I signed a new Goalkeeper 3 months ago and in that time he has improved his Pace and Balance which means his Jumping and Agility will also be going up but not yet registered a change, he has improved his Positioning and Command of Area, and he has improved his Kicking, Handling and Throwing. Different goalkeepers in different clubs in different saves will have different levels of improvement, but the improvements will go into the correct categories at similar ratios. You can download the new schedule by clicking the following link: http://www.mediafire.com/?njltnzt14jm
  8. It's a great table and great work, but the above is not entireally accurate. Attributes with 0 CA Weight are not "Free" but independant of the CA/PA system for attribute change. This means rather than costing no CA to change, instead they cannot be changed at all other than by a small number of specific gameplay events. For all attributes weighted 1 to 6 in the table, they change according to CA quantities and CA attribute behaviour mechanics, so can be trained and changed that way, can increase/decrease as CA increases/decreases and so on. Attributes weighted at zero are a completely different type of attribute that behave in different ways. They are first of all generally more "behaviour/personality defining" such as Determination/Aggression/Flair/Natural Fitness etc. that have a very big say in playstyle and behaviour. Or they are hidden attributes that define strengths/weaknesses in key areas of a player such as Injury Proneness, Important Matches and so on. These attributes are incredibly hard to change because they define huge aspects of a players individuality. They all change not through training, but by ingame events such as Mentoring, or playing more regularly/big performances, or disciplinary measures or by getting serious and longterm injuries. Two things regularly overlooked/misunderstood is that there is a select number of relatively static yet personality/behaviour/playstyle defining attributes. These attributes represent "natural talent" or "natural gifts" etc. For example Carrick will never, ever reach the same level of Playmaking ability as Xavi because he has such a low Flair attribute and prefers not to attempt the flamboyant. These are key "natural personality/playstyle" defining attributes, and players that naturally lack certain key attributes will never be "the greatest ever" in certain roles, no matter their PA etc. The second thing overlooked, and it is quite hard to spot, is that FM has a rather deep "event driven development" system for players. Players that achieve certain things, fail in certain things, consistently perform certain things etc. will improve and decline in the related attributes. A youngster that plays more regularly, puts in good performances, scores important goals will increase his Influence and become a more important player in the eyes of other players. He will improve his Consistency/Important Matches etc. Likewise a Free Kick specialist that regularly takes and scores from Free Kicks, but does not do any set piece training, will still improve in his Free Kick attribute. Someone made captain will likewise improve in his Influence. Someone that gets a broken leg will become more injury prone, and so on. These "event based changes" do not happen regularly, but they do happen and effectively chart a players career. You have limited direct control over them, and cannot change these attributes like you can the rest of the "Ability Attributes".
  9. Very much so. It is a game premised not only on paying attention to detail, but actually learning the simulation of football much like you have to in real life. The "hardness" of the game is a designed simulation of football management in the respect that you must learn the tricks of the trade. Teamtalks are probably the best example of this, one of the simplest mechanics to use yet one of the toughest mechanics to use. It's easy to use teamtalks, it's significantly harder to understand your players "psyche" and use the right teamtalk at the right time. All the guides in the world pale into insignificance when it comes to actually watching and learning your own players, opponents, and how things work. This is why the phrase "It's your tactics" is so prevailent. No one can fix things for you without playing your saved game. It all comes down to manager skill at the end of the day, no matter how much you read and watch and understand and test and explore. No guide/discussion/debate/explanation can actually help you make the right decisions at the right time for the right players. That's the real beauty of this game. That's what makes it the best football mangement simulator around.
  10. Pay attention to age. It's probably the most important part of training. Training hugely rewards those that understand age and pay attention to longterm development trends. That's one of the key points in this entire thread.
  11. Categories like Set Pieces for Centrebacks do not need to be trained but I would not drop Attacking or Shooting to zero for Centrebacks as they will drop and quite rapidly if the player is at a stable level of CA. Passing, Creativity and Composure are still important attributes for a Centreback and in terms of raw CA you would need a drop of over 3 Composure attribute levels for an increase of 1 in Positioning. If you wish to push CA from the shooting Category into other areas of the defenders game, the best time to do so would be when he is around 30 as the mental Composure attribute would drop less rapidly than the technical Finishing and Longshot attributes. By contrast the best time to push CA from the Strength Category into other areas would be when the Centreback is young and his Strength + Stamina would decline less rapidly than his Workrate. Don't just blindly rush into designing schedules in such an aggressive manner without paying attention to those points above. If you drop Shooting too low too early in the players career it will be the Centrebacks Composure attribute that suffers more than his Finishing and Longshots.
  12. A higher Tempo can lead to missed chances, missed goal creating opportunites, poor decisions, reduced composure and sometimes even blind panic. Depending on precisely how/where your Striker is missing chances, you can use the HUB instruction on him to effectively tell him to take a touch/take his time if he lacks composure. Players running onto a throughball and ballooning first time shots into the stand are better candidates for HUB in this specific manner than players involved in link-up play or trying to dribble past defenders.
  13. Hmm it seems a post I quoted and responded to has completely disappeared.
  14. Reduced Workload reduces CA gain from training, but it also reduces condition loss/increases condition recovery and very likely reduces injury risk. Distribution of training effect between attributes in a single category depends on attribute type and player Age. Technical/Mental/Physical attribute types have different rates and patterns of growth, and the precise rate/pattern at any specific time depends on the players age. I would surmise that there is more to add to this list, but these are the known issues and anything else is speculation with a minor or non-obvious impact. For example Workload may define how much "ability" you are moving around, how quickly/slowly changes occur. I play by the assumption that this is true as it is logical and is in keeping with the general "themes" of the rest of the training mechanics, but I do not know for certain that it is true and it would be rather difficult to test as it would require an environment of zero CA change over time.
  15. A variety of formations based on the Zona Mista form of Catenaccio adapted for my team and for each opponent. The Second Striker role is a "tactical spare" and the variety of players in the club allows me to construct just about any system I want through instructions without disturbing the basic shape of the team. Those are just a few examples of what you can quite easilly adapt to with a few minor tweaks here and there. You can do even more with the instructions for players from those positions, pushing the LCM into a wing position in the first formation for example, or pushing up the RCM to play as a Second Striker in the last formation. Or do what United did against Milan with the middle image and play two playmakers in the DM and RCM positions with two box-to-box, hardworking midfielders in LCM and AMC getting forward and wide and pressing high up the pitch. I regret selling Park before I started playing this way. He would have been an excellent player to have as an option in this system. It just goes to show how much of the game is about understanding what your players can and cannot do, and knowing what that offers to your side on the pitch in a tactical sense. A combination of the two. Mentality, Creative Freedom, Passing Style, Closing Down(for most players but not all), Tackling and Marking settings I usually leave for the Touchline Shouts / TC to modify during a match. All the other instructions I specifically choose myself. It is very useful to be able to switch between high pressing/standing off, more direct attacking or more controlled possession etc. during a match. It is much less useful to have horrible crossers whipping in balls, or 35 year old playmakers dribbling with the ball, or even worse to have your Lone Striker running into channels from an Inside Left position instead of cutting inside onto his strongest foot. My Left Wingback for example is usually instructed to "Cut Inside" and this has dramatically improved my attacking play down that flank, not because he bombs towards goal like Messi but because he takes the ball infield and lays it off, while creating space that triggers plenty of movement in my frontline. Specifically for Rooney who will move wide and has a good chance of being spotted and played through on goal, otherwise Rooney will create space for another run and Cut Inside onto his strongest foot if he gets the ball in the wide positions. If the Left Wingback simply headed down the line he would prevent that entire process of constant attacking movement and recycling possession from taking place, and probably whip a horrible cross out of play. Bit of a derail here though. Let's not get too deep into Tactical Discussion. My bad.
  16. It's all about how you use them. Here is a screenshot of the 2010-2011 season in my current save as Manchester United. I am six games into the season, 4 PL games, a Charity Shield match, and a European Super Cup match. Look at the contribution from Ryan Giggs. The guy is 36 years old, has only played 80 minutes of football in 6 matches, but has scored two goals and setup another in those 80 minutes, with an average rating of 7.9. One of those goals came against Chelsea in the league, of all games to score in. Look at Giggs' attributes. The guy is declining, and dropping like a stone when it comes to physical ability. 11 Natural fitness, 9 Stamina, 12 Acceleration, 12 Pace. These are horrible physical attributes, and with Giggs they are only going to get worse. Look at his last five games. Average rating of 8.18, 4 goals scored. The guy cannot play regularly but is an absolute weapon of a footballer when he does play. Estimated value of £450,000? The guy is one of the most important players in my club, a footballing nuclear missile. Did you see the player Douglas Costa in the first screenshot? What has he contributed to the team this season? Two goals and one assist in only 67 minutes of football. Have a look at his profile, look at his Natural Fitness and Stamina. Remind you of a young version of anyone? That's right, Douglas Costa is my new Ryan Giggs. The only difference between the two players is that Costa is improving while Giggs is declining. Costa is getting his Strength Category boosted, even at the expense of his Aerobic while Giggs his getting his Strength decline halted as much as possible, at the expense of Aerobic. Neither of these two players has high Natural Fitness or high Stamina, and cannot play every game for 90 minutes. They are however my "secret weapons", coming on for the late stages of games when opponents are knackered, and producing the goods and then some. One is declining, the other is developing, both are absolute weapons in the last 20 minutes of a game. This is Premier League / Champions League level. By the way, do you like how I use Carrick, Valencia and Rooney?
  17. Not a lot. Natural Fitness doesn't increase/decrease according to CA gains but is more like Aggression/Bravery/Determination. Players with low Natural Fitness need an even closer eye on their condition. Condition between matches and tactical instructions that produce condition loss in-match. Compensating for low Natural Fitness, or low Stamina, requires good rotation/usage strategies and you can help yourself more by limiting the amount of closing down or runs a player makes during a match. Reducing Training Workload is another option. Other than tactical instructions or rotation policies or training workloads that reduce the amount of condition a player loses between games, there is not a lot more you can do. Natural Fitness is a "personality" type Attribute, that defines not how a player behaves in a single move, but how he behaves over the course of a few weeks, or a season, or his career. Low Natural Fitness players simply do not recover condition very well, and there is not a lot you can do about that. Low closing down, low "forward runs/runs with ball", reduced training, and good rotation strategies are all you really have to work with. Depends on the level you play at. Low stamina = condition loss = performance decline. If your players performance drops like a stone while those around him are still at peak performance it is bad, if those around him drop like a stone and he is still better, thats great. 12 Stamina is decent for third or fourth tier leagues. It is a disaster for top leagues. I would always attempt to train a minimum of 15 at Manchester United, while 12 would be a high score in the Blue Square.
  18. Intensive Strength training. You need to be careful with injuries, but at the same time you need to try and maximise his Strength increases. I would pay close attention to a players current Strength Attributes. There may be a correlation between low Stamina/Strength, his Strength Training and injuries. Physically weak players doing Intensive Physical training may well be more susceptible to physical injuries, and that is something I am seeing in my game, although it could be chance. Either way, make sure his Strength Focus is higher than any other Focus, possibly even 2-3x any other focus. You cannot easilly raise Strength Attributes in older players, and Stamina is a key attribute. If the player starts getting injured you will have to reduce the Strength intensity, while also reducing the other intensities to maintain the same ratio of improvement. That combined to Match Experience and the above explanation for youth development is what you should be aiming for.
  19. That is a brilliant question. Youth development is what got me so interested in Training in the first place. It was something I needed to understand and be able to use effectively in order to maximise the development of my youngsters, to improve key deficiencies severely hindering them while boosting certain strengths that would enable them to to perform a few functions in-match to a high degree of ability. For young players specifically, their optimal amount of game time is a much more indepth issue than with older players that are still developing or not yet reached their maximum potential, in my opinion anyway. There are many more factors to consider with youngsters, and introducing them to First Team football is a more complex, yet incredibly fun and entertaining and rewarding, question of management ability. The optimal amount of game time for a youngster to develop quickly is whatever keeps them at 100% Match Experience. The problem is that Match Experience cannot be directly seen ingame. The condition percentage is a combination of Match Experience and Physical Fitness while the Fitness display (Match Fit, Superb, Severely Lacking Match Fitness etc.) is more of a general indication of certain key levels reached in both Physical Condition and Match Experience. To give a few examples: 1: Fitness = Superb Condition / Condition = 100%. The player is at 100% Match Experience and 100% Physical Condition. 2: Fitness = Severely Lacking Match Fitness / Condition = 90%. The player is probably around 50% Match Experience and 100% Physical Condition. 3: Fitness = Tired / Condition = 89%. The player is at 100% Match Experience and probably around 80% to 85% Physical Condition. Now 100% Match Experience means maximum CA growth rates, but it means maximum CA growth rates for whatever CA is actually gained. Match Experience is like a final modifier of CA gain, so 50% Match Experience means 50% of whatever CA you should gain is what you actually gain. If CA is dropping for some reason, low Match Experience will increase the drop. High or Maximum Match Experience is what you want in your youngsters. This maximises the amount of CA you gain. However the story does not end there. You can stop here if you like as the most important stuff is done, but there is so much more to youth development than Match Experience. Youth Development With the desire to achieve maximum Match Experience a given, youth development is then all about playing under-developed players in such a manner that they remain happy, they gain the respect of their teammates, they perform well on the pitch, they achieve high levels of CA gain, and that the manager understands how to use them and uses them in such a way that they are not a detriment to the team and that they are "figured out" and used effectively. Match Performances and Club/Opponent/Competition Reputation are important factors in CA gain rates. The optimal quantity of playing time for maximum CA gain from each match is 100% Match Experience, but what defines the quantity of CA gained per match is Club/Opponent/Competition Reputation and Match Performance levels. 100% Match Experience will always give 100% of the CA gained to the player, but a bad performance in the League Cup Second Round from a Manchester United youngsters at home to Accrington Stanley will give far less basic CA than a Hat-trick and a Man-Of-The-Match Performance against Barcelona in the European Cup Final. An 18 year old that bags a Hat-trick against Barcelona in the European Cup Final will not only gain maximum possible CA, but will also gains one-off boosts to attributes like Influence, Finishing, Important Matches, Determination, Pressure etc. The performances of youngsters directly impacts not only their CA gain, but their football ability and mental abilities, influence, teammates perception, asking price and reputation. Any player that does exceptionally well in tough/important matches will receive these kinds of boosts and benefits, but in youngsters these increases are greater, more decisive at their age, and hugely more beneficial to their overall ability. Likewise any detrimental after effects of bad performances are magnified and very disruptive to the players development. Significantly bad performances can see players actually decline, especially if the player is regularly poor. The oldest/biggest/best trick in the book for getting immense performances out of youngsters in First Team matches is to use maximum condition, fresh, fit, energetic youngsters against knackered opponents for the last 10-20 minutes of a game. As condition drops, so does the ability of players. Concentration drops, Workrate drops, and I would guess all mental abilities drop according to condition. A completely fresh, livewire, dribbling and pace fanatic with a decent cross and plenty of flair coming into the game at 100% condition or Superb Fitness will perform far above his abilities precisely because the opponents are playing below their abilities. In this situation he has the greatest opportunity to make the biggest impact and achieve the best performance rating, and so gain the maximum possible benefits from the Match Experience. The manager can further boost his performance by playing him where he can best influence the game in a positive manner, and by motivating him so he plays even better. This requires a manager that understands the players capabilities and mental state/personality. Bringing on a pacey, aggressive striker that makes good runs alongside a wise old veteran playmaker to feed him the ball for the last 15 minutes of the game is a recipe for maximum results for your youngsters. As is bringing on a livewire winger with targetman instructions and a cunning veteran "fox-in-the-box" as the targetman. This all requires that the manager pays close attention to physical condition as well as Match Experience, pays attention to player abilities and player personality and match tactics and opponent abilities. This requires that the manager is knowledgeable about his players, and cunning about his tactics. Above all though it requires that the manager is capable of introducing youngsters into a team where they can make the maximum impact. This will benefit player development, but also benefit the team. Macheda or Gibson scores yet another last gasp late goal, which not only pulls the team back into the game or seals a late winner, but boosts the players CA and mental ability gains to their maximum possible levels. Then praise the lad publicly so he becomes your best friend, then bench him for the next game so he knows he has to earn his place, and so you can use him at the perfect moment in the match for maximum benefit for player, team, club and manager. And if you happen to Mentor him with the player he replaces as sub, or the player he plays alongside when he comes onto the pitch, this will only reinforce the bonds and reinforce the competition between players, and improve your team and club even further.
  20. If you get beat by powerful attacking sides using these formations then consider using your own wingers as man markers on their wingers and keep your fullbacks free to cover gaps/double up/maintain possession. Pay attention to where their greatest threat against you is likely to come from and try and force them in the other direction. It also a very good idea to find their key creative player and shut him out of the game with a man. Relatively easy if it is Arsenal and Fabregas, significantly more difficult if it is Barcelona with Xavi and Iniesta. If you get beat/draw against "weaker" teams playing these formations then you are very likely losing the midfield battle, or contriving to play into their defensive/counter-attacking hands in some other fashion. Failure to win the ball back and failure to use it wisely and skillfully and intelligently are common causes of frustration against "weaker" sides. Think passbacks, defensive mixups, or Centreback and Goalkeeper going for the same ball. Higher levels of Communication in Goalkeepers will reduce the frequency of these defensive errors.
  21. The Veteran schedules are designed to slow down the decline of Stamina while reducing Overall Workload to boost condition recovery. Meaning they can play longer/more often and wont lose Stamina so quickly which will basically end their careers if it is not addressed. The other alternative is the Developing Schedules. It seems counter-intuitive but they are both Stamina training intensive. One is at a high workload, the other is at low. If your player isn't playing regularly I would put him on developing unless you want to end his career. If he is playing regularly then Veteran is the best choice as it will allow him to play more often.
  22. The evidence points against the idea of attribute weights being directly involved in training. There are no +1000% non-key attribute gains over key attribute gains. Attributes such as Positioning and Off The Ball tend to go up fairly equally irrespective of Position in all players. You certainly do not see Finishing going up 10x faster than Positioning in a Centreback. That does not mean that there is no complex mechanism at work bringing attribute weights down to a more logical rate of increase. I suggested that attribute CA gain is proportional to CA weight as that is what the evidence suggested to me, but there are certain examples where attributes are not behaving according to theory. I have not done much investigation into the impact of coaches on training, and I would assume that there is a significant impact from coaches on training. Untill coaches are investigated properly I cannot rule out a complex mechanic of dealing with attribute weights, but I think it is unlikely. Irrespective of all of that though, it is absolutely clear that the direct, unmodified attribute weights play no role in training. It is completely false to think that each attribute receives an equal share of CA when CA is gained, and that key attributes require 10x more to increase. That would produce situations that would destroy players, let alone the ability to train them.
  23. Yes that is dissapointing with the Physical attributes. I guess a focus bias of +1 is not high enough. Results like these re-open the discussion for attribute weights being involved in some way in training, but clearly that impact is no greater than +/- 100% and certainly not the +/- 1000% you would expect to see from non-proportional CA gains. There is however another potential source for these discrepancies, and that is Coaches. I would be interested to know the attributes of your Coaches facman to see if there is any potential correlation.
  24. I didn't notice that either, that is an excellent spot. As for the "Final Version" of the schedules, Prozone, DocSander and myself are working on a tool (work I have been holding up) for constructing schedules based on this training thread. The release of that tool will undoubtedly take much longer than releasing a set of updated schedules, but as Indi rightly points out the end result should be much, much superior for all users than any set of schedules I could produce. @ Indi, you talk about using your own weightings. I was wondering what weightings they are, and if you had spotted anything to take into account that produces a superior end result?
  25. It was a poster named CATAFAN. His thread was called something like "The Fastest Way to Player Development".
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