[*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread]

I need people here to confirm this with me but there seems to be a gigantic bug with morale. I have two saves going and it happens in both of them.

On one, I just finished the transfer window and there was an international break, a team that went into it on light to good greens, by the time it was over they were all on Yellows, some on orange

On the other save, I had a bad run of form, the day after the game I did a team talk, managed to get them on Yellow and a few light greens. I get to the next game and they are all on DARK ORANGE....

Was playing through that 2nd one again and it happened AGAIN. Was able to string a good run of games together, even beating my biggest rivals, the boys are hyped, all on high greens... Int break comes around and now all my players are on yellow or oranges. If this is a bug it can't wait until FM24, it is game breaking, makes it impossible to string a run of games together and better teams will always have an irrealistic advantage

Now, if it's a "feature" to more "realistically simulate International break slants".... I'm at a loss for words just thinking of how stupid that decision would be, genuinely flabbergasted how anyone could think TANKING everyone's morale would be a good idea for realism.

I can't anymore with this game, just when things seem even a bit better and there's an hope of playing a game that actually works, smt game breaking shows up...... I never played a game that hates its players more, either that or it's intent on self destroying

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

A tip for those like me who have complained about the excessive crossing and lack of central play.

 

This doesn't fix the issue but it makes highlights a bit more digestible. I hadn't noticed yet but they added an instruction to cross less often, applying it does seem to decrease the amount of crosses that I've been seeing in highlights. The players will still prioritize running/passing to wide areas but, seeing as they aren't supposed to cross, they usually pass it to someone else and a play can "kinda" develop from those wide areas.

 

As I've said, it's not a cure all and doesn't fix the issue, but it makes matches a tad more enjoyable so if you're like me and are enjoying you're Beta save but struggling to keep up do to those issues, I recommend putting that instruction on your wide offensive midfielders, give it a try.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

9 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

No one is denying that this isn't an issue. In fact I am also one of those that feels that IFs play like wingers, that the initial ball out to them seems to be towards the flanks and not into the halfspaces. And even when they do receive the ball, their preferred run is always outside ignoring their preferred foot. I think I have provided 5 pkms already, but I know what the process is like to isolate an issue and multiple examples are always needed.  This whole movement leads to an abundance of crosses which in turn makes a certain breed of player score more goals in the box. Its like a cascade of dominoes, one knocking over the next. And because it affects so many things, a lot of pkms are needed, cos the context could be different. To give you an example I intentionally made a tactic where opposition IFs were given all the space to attack diagonally from the halfspaces, but they went wide. Hopefully the varied amount of pkms helps the issue, but experience tells me that multiple pkms are needed when someone sees an issue but its not widely shared or experienced by the rest.

FYI different tactical setups cause this issue to emerge, so I just make as many different tactical setups are needed to see which are 'logical' and shouldnt be doing this.

Some of the other comments were along those lines, ence me reiterating that it's an acknowledged issue, it wasn't meant as s finger pointing "How dare you say that it isn't", more of a "Look, I know you'll keep trying to find places in my tactic that wouldn't be conductive for central play but the reality is that there is something wrong".

As for PKMs I had already provided them in my bug report (about 4 that the analytics showed trouble in the central areas).
 

I completely get all of that, I myself have made tactics like those and understand context is key because games can have wildly different outcomes and different AI teams will have different approaches and ways of countering your tactics.

From what I've seen in the bug reports people have been doing a good job of annexing PKMs (even saw one with specific time stamps and screenshots and explaining the situation and the problem, to which i can only respond by applauding) , let's all hope it's not an uber difficult issue and that by release of shortly thereafter we see it fixed, at the end of the day we all just want the best ME possible.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

12 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I think anytime anyone is flagging something to do with ME play, tactics should be sent with a PKM, theres so many ways to set up that, without it I think you miss a lot of context. There's a particular issue that I'm chasing, that if you didn't see the tactic itself, you would think is absolutely fine in the examples shown, as it's specific to roles selection

Yeah, but as mods had said previously in here, bugs should go on the bug reports and I already had one set up with PKMs. I added my tactic to the comment section of the report when you originally said people should do because I realize I'd forgotten to do it. The feedback forum isn't really for discussing that sort of thing from what I gathered. People asked to see the tactic and it spawned a debate and I explained why it didn't have anything to do with it.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

TBH i don't really get the debate, given all that was originally said was: those with issues, might be worth uploading tactics so they have context, some setups might see exacerbated issues. Not sure what about that seems so controversial

The debate wasn't about that part (I think we can all agree on that), it was other people doubting the issues existence and trying to shift blame onto my tactic specifically. This is a forum full of people who play FM, it's only natural for any topic to shift into tactical analysis if given a chance ahah. And I thought it was pretty civil, at least I didn't get upset or offended.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

9 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

Then again it is not an ideal set up for central play. Instead it is the perfect set up for wing play. And I have seen these types of tactical set up multiple times with players that complain about lack of central play when I have no problem getting through balls as my primary assist type. It is like complaining your long passes cannot find your striker when you are playing strikerless. Try changing the advanced forward to a deep lying forward (a) and see if you get better results. Also since you mentioned that players constantly run wide with the ball why not experiment with inverted wing backs since you will always have at least one player maintaining the width? They are an easy way to create central overloads. The tactic that I mentioned with through balls as primary assist type uses an inverted wing back.

I have played with a DLF (a) at the start of the season seeing has I had players that fitted that (to tell you the truth the AF was an adaptation I had made in a previous save to accommodate a world class striker), same results and abandoned it around November. And no, it's not an ideal setup for wing play for 2 reasons:

First of all, there are no wingers and while there is supposed to be crosses, they should come primarily and in abundance from the Wingbacks.

The IW/If (a) is supposed to drift into the half spaces, looking for an opportunity to cut into the box to receive a pass or find a run to play the ball through, they don't, they just stubbornly run wide. On the other side, the IW (su) is supposed to do the same, only picking up the ball slightly deeper and cut inside, not so much drift into the half space looking for a run. This is what the roles are supposed to, instead, they act like winger disregarding stronger foot, traits, etc.

 

Look, this tactic isn't supposed to have a super special emphasis on central play (note the lack of a "play through the middle" instruction), it's supposed to be balanced and incentivize passing combinations. On the pitch, I can see the triangles forming between the players, they just default to playing it wide and the wide players default to running wide.

And people have experimented with tactics who are meant to be central oriented with *literally* the same statistics of final third entries through the middle as me (both extremely low compared to what they should be). There is very clearly an issue here, and it doesn't seem to be simply fixing IW/IF because the trouble is still there when there aren't wide players. I recommend you to go and give a look at the bug reports that have been submitted.

On my report the SI staff responding to those posts himself have said that the developers recognize it as an issue and are aware of it -> "This is a known issue regarding central play, and one we're investigating internally"

If I thought everything was ok and saw some people complaining about an issue in previous FM I'd assume that they must've had it wrong tactically, I get it, but that's simply not the case and it's backed up by the actual games statistics.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

41 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

What are the PIs of the midfield trio, because on the surface, I'm wondering who is supposed to be taking responsibility for playing passes through the line in short support to a striker most concerned with getting behind a defence. 

 

34 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

How is there any central play when there is no players ready to receive the pass up front? The advanced forward rarely involve himself in the build up and make himself available for a pass. The two inverted wingers will stick to the wide areas until the ball progressed into the final third. The BBM and CM(su) are not aggressive roles in midfield either. So back to the question who do you want the players to pass the ball to up front from the central areas?

The CM on Su has takes more risks. As I have said previously, the Mez on Atk would be ideal and and even did penetrative runs, but in FM22 they just dribbled to the corner flag. The AP positions himself automatically between the Mid line and oposition Def and even with roams from position they don't align with the other midfielder to create a passing lane. DLP doesn't have the fluidity in movement to play in the midfield that i want. RPM would fit on paper but just doesn't seem to perform, nor do I have a player with attributes to play it. Ence CM (Su) (sometimes Atk) with takes more risks and (sometimes) Move into channels. When you are controlling the game they and the BBM sit on the edge of the box as needed.

 

The lack of an offensive midf seemed weird? Yeah, because I had to try emulate what i wanted from the CM(Su)

There is an AF, you know what they do in this tactic? They push the backline back to create space for the Midfielders to operate, once again, Mez would be ideal but they aren't viable right now, so yeah, I had to change it. And as a side note, though less than other roles, they are capable of some support play, an AF doesn't behave like a Poacher.

All that being said, I'm not an amateur, I built this tactic fully aware of what the roles and instructions do. There is a reason behind everything I did here, there are limitations due to issues in the ME to which I had to adapt and if you think that there's no way this works... i literally spent the entirety of FM21 experimenting with this tactic and its variations and am fully aware of how it's supposed to operate, it's not my fault that the IW/IF refuse to cut in. I could use a Treq instead of a IW, drop the added instructions on the CM and play like that as that is one of the variations mentioned but unfortunately I don't have a world class player that fits the role, go figure.

 

And yes even a BBM and CM do/did plenty of penetrative passes in this tactic so long as they had the attributes to do so, which in this case, for this league, they have.

People aren't just pointing these issues for the sake of being difficult...

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

4 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

- Wide with Short Passing?

- Any reason to ask your defenders to receive the ball quickly - then play direct-counter attack with short pass (in possession)?

There is a lot of conflict TI here. 

Distribute quickly wasn't turned on for the entire save, I have a game against Porto next and I don't want to waist a chance to score on a counter.

Yes, short passing with wide. Try it in FM 21 and read up on Total Football (not being passive aggressive, I was surprised too and it translated very well to the game). Playing wide makes use of the full extent of the pitch and stretches opposition making it easier to pass, short passing encourages passing to the players closer to the one in possession.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'm playing short, passing football, built on passing through blocks. I'm seeing my team play through said blocks. 

Great to hear, I'm not, neither are a lot of other people. The current tactic was posted above per another commentor' request. Wide to stretch play, short passing, balanced mentality and a lot of support roles so that the players mentality didn't incentivise tons of ambitious passes. Built very much so for building up play. (The reason for the CM not being a Mez that would be ideal for the system is explained in that post).

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

6 minutes ago, Platinum said:

What type of player roles do you have in your 4-3-3 as I have definitely had this " Poking and prodding at the edge of the box from a build up starting at the back is something that I haven't witnessed even one single time, be it against low block teams or teams that faced me earnestly."

 

The right WB is sometimes on Atk. The CM in FM21 used to be a Mezzalla but seeing as I saw them running towards the corner flag waaaaay too much, I changed them to a CM.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

22 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'm playing both a 4-2-3-1 and a 4-3-3 and cutting teams to shreds through the middle as well as the flank. So getting people to show how they are playing is highly relevant because it doesn't seem to be universal

I mean, some of the most viewed issues with the ME are central play reports and there has been plenty of people complaining and receiving upvotes on this forum. Even if it isn't "universal", it does seem like a pretty common issue and one that is most apparent to the people playing through many games in a row seeing as patterns become more recognizable and predictable.

4-3-3 certainly has an issue, after half a season of play time there is definitely one. Mine was experimented on last year with the express objective of opening space in the middle by stretching out opposition and have plays go through there even if they played a low block. It didn't make use of a meta, it followed the same principles of total football. What I have witnessed through the middle is players, on a counter or immediately after regaining possession, playing long through balls, maybe playing one short pass before that. This isn't the central play that was there in FM21 and everyone applauded, it feels more like what he had in the FM19-20. Poking and prodding at the edge of the box from a build up starting at the back is something that I haven't witnessed even one single time, be it against low block teams or teams that faced me earnestly.

Maybe your tactic isn't built for that/isn't what you look for in your 4-3-3, but for those of us who finally got to build Total Football teams in FM21, it is a bit worrying for that approach to be taken away from the game.

PS: Ppl should definitely show their tactics in the bug reports regardless to help the developers.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

26 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

If you're having issues with central play when reporting it, would be useful to upload your tactics as well to the tracker. Would be interesting to see what people are doing. I'm not saying its not an issue, I'm just not seeing it through the middle of the pitch. Are certain set ups exacerbating any issues perhaps

Perhaps, but it would be weird for 442 narrow formations and wide expansive 433s/343s with wide players cutting inside to have the same issue (these are the formations that i've seen). It could be related with the IW/IF issues but then teams without wide players wouldn't be having the same issue. It certainly doesn't look like a tactics issue.

Something that has disappeared and has been very noticeable is build up in open play (and not just when the ball started from a throw in), when players would pass it around the edge of the box looking for an opening. That side of the game disappearing can't be put on tactical choices alone and the data provided in the bug tracker does suggest a reoccurring issue within the actual ME.

Since tone can sometimes be hard to discern in written text, I'm just calmly pointing out to the mod that it is extremely unlikely for this issue to be just a tactical mistake by us players ahah

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

39 minutes ago, WizbaII said:

It's one thing to leave your feedback, which is perfectly fine. But I'm intrigued by the number of people who expect a beta release of FM 22 to be as good as a game (FM 21) that already had multiple patches applied to it. This is unreasonable, is it not?

These people should take note that the beta period was changed from 2 weeks to 3 weeks. I take that as a sign from SI that they are putting more importance into getting things right before a full release. But that still doesn't mean perfection should be expected right from the get go. Coding the match engine is not like making a tic-tac-toe game, especially when adding one part to it requires you to tweak all the parts that already exist :).

Anyway, I'm actually posting to ask a question, because so many people have said that FM 21 has a good balance of central vs. wide play. As I skipped FM 21 and am still playing FM 20, I'm getting curious about this. Are there people here who acknowledge that FM 21 had better central play, but at the same time believe FM 22 is still (in its current state) the superior engine to be playing with? Because I don't see those people being vocal right now.

Can only speak for myself, but as someone who has criticized the current ME, I don't do it because I expect it this to be the finished article. The people who've been pointing out the issue with central play in this forum (and providing context and pkms in the bug report) do it precisely because they want the ME to be the best it can be and the developers need to know what is wrong (the whole point of the beta is identifying bugs) in order to improve.

From what I understand, SI are already aware and working on it. As you've said, since it's a ME issue there's no real way of knowing if it'll be fixed by release, if there'll be a patch later on, etc, given it's complexity.

Seeing as you've skipped FM21, it was probably as good a ME as one could hope in that allowed tactical flexibility and made the central space and half spaces viable as well as creating gorgeous colective moves, there were some issues with it concerning fullbacks and marking in certain circumstances but a great base to work upon. FM22 looks phenomenal with the new animations, the issues is that, as it stands, it's a step back from FM21. It feels a bit like an iteration that would've fit between fm20 and fm21 and carried a bug for wide players, forcing them to go to the byline, even the combinations from the central corridor that some people have posted aren't as complex as 21 and they'd still happen in fm20 occasionally.

Again, and as you said, this isn't the finished article and we can only hope that it gets fixed by release so that we can jump straight into our long term saves but, obviously, ppl who are on the beta tend to be players who put a lot of hours in the game and as it stands they have a ME that is less satisfying than 21 and repetitive so it's natural that they'd be disappointed since they'll have to wait until it's fixed to properly get into the game.

I say, let's trust the folks at SI, the beta is longer than the usual 2 weeks, the issue was identified very early on and every year the ME in the beta isn't the same as the one running at launch. I haven't really seen people being disrespectful about it (and I love that about this community) and I'd ask anyone reading this to respect the developers.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

4 hours ago, ScottishFM said:

What are they judging these values on? Like I know Josh Doig is highly rated and been linked with big moves but never in a million years would Hibs get anywhere near 18-23 million for him. Arsenal refused to pay their asking price of 5 million in real life according to reports.

I actually love the idea behind the new transfer values. Instead of reflecting an abstract number of no importance they now show you how the clube values a player.

 

Remember in previous Fm when you'd go to make an offer and suggest the market value to see how the clube responded? FM has essentially cut that step and just straight up shows you what they want and you can negotiate from there, with ridiculous values (the 160-200Ms) for young players being essentialy an hands off response before you even consider asking. I'm yet to play around for going in on one of these kids and see if when the bid is rejected they (like our players) through an hissy fit over their asking price (If someone has tried pls tell me).

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

49 minutes ago, _neallyons_ said:

I think a lot of people dont realise that these days because a lot of teams play a high block/high press type of game - you will absolutely see a lot more play around the flanks. 

It's one thing for the ball to end up in wide areas, but not to this extent. What I've noticed is that a lot of times when a wide player receives the ball they just run along the byline if they are an IW. IF and AP are a bit different but they also have other functions, an IF is almost an AF that starts wide, if you want someone just cutting inside and operating in half spaces now, the only choice are the AP and Treq roles which obviously don't fit most wide players.

What you had previously AND in real life wasn't so much a reviving of the central zone but an increase in importance of the Half spaces. That valorization is gone so of 5 corridors to explore the only viable now are the wings.

An issue that i saw a lot of times is when the IW players have the ball not only don't they cut inside but if they hold it they don't get support, instead, CM run into the area (no, they don't have get into opposition box trait) and WB hang way to further back because they don't see space to do overlap for some reason

The centre of the pitch fills way more congested than it should be and player (in my experience) are far too eager to make long passes even if they make zero sense and go against instructions (once again, no trait that would incentivise this). I said in my reply to the thread that it felt like FM20 and that's because it does (a friend of mine who had skipped 21 said the same thing), there are changes obviously, but the issues are there, the ME improvements last year were by far the best thing to happen to the game in years and it was fun (a bit too many lob shots), you could play different styles of play but right now (And i doubt SI will leave it as is) it feels like 9 out of 10 highlights is just good old english run to the corner and cross.

[*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread]

Anyone else feels like they are playing FM20 again? The centre of the pitch is completely dead, I've played through half a season and i might have seen 4-6 highlights (on extended) where there's some type of passing play through the middle. IW seem to act more like wingers than players who are supposed to cut inside, instead they just corner themselves and cross. The game got real boring real quick cause of this... This goes beyond crossing being OP, it's pretty much all the players do, "pass it wide, run to byline, cross, repeat".

 

I've tried different tactics, all with the same result, the only times a goal isn't scored from crosses it's either from a weird long pass or in the sequence of a play that started on a long throw or set piece, nothing from building in open play. I don't know if SI will fix but if this is the match engine I might just return to fm21.

Also, I respect SI and honestly think there were good improvements to fm22. The 3D models and animations are great, the new player values system is a thousand times more useful (and I think it should've been an headline feature), deadline day was pretty fun and as someone who had some deals to make during it I can say I was happy with the addition and getting rid of the white background for the new default skin was something that made my eyes pop with joy. So far, a part from bugs, the only thing in the skin that's driving me up the wall is not being able to see atributes on the scouting reports (whose idea was that?).

But yeah, I'll stop for now and keep my eyes open to see if the ME has been fixed or if this is what it's supposed to be for this year. I hope everyone's been enjoying the game regardless.