[how to get playmaking out of my AML?]

Hoping to get some understanding regarding my AML constantly underperforming ? constantly getting 6.2 ratings. Completing 75% of his passes (while rest of team is mid 80s), avg 2 dribbles a game, rarely has key passes, 3 assists through 20 games, 1 goal. When looking at his completed passes it looks like that most of his passes are negative passes. Receives the ball around midline, but has almost zero involvement in the final third.

For PI I have him on stays wide, and then have toggled take more risk/direct passes/get forward more on and off with no noticeable change in his performance.  Have also briefly toggled with IF(s),

The tactic as a whole performs okay - biggest issue I think is getting promoted to EPL and poor recruitment so my squad isnt EPL level really. So I've tried to really only assess it vs bottom 5 teams.

Most of my goals have been coming from the DLF dropping deep and the CM(a) bursting through onto a through ball (either from the DLF or one of the fbs...) The IF(a) from the right has underperformed as well, mainly just not finishing 1v1s with the GK - but also hasnt been as dynamic as I would have liked with creating chances/dribbling at people (he also is maybe just failing at dribbles and they dont show up on comprehensive highlights)

I had debated doing an AP(a) in AML slot (in my head thats how neymar played a little bit? maybe? gets the ball and runs at people hoping to draw them out of position and then pass to someone else to finish?) but dont love that I would have all 3 front people on attack + the CM(a). 

Am currently 17th, am fine to grind out a season and have a better second season. I'm just not sure if the tactic is fundamentally flawed and thats why the AML (primarily) and the AMR are under performing or if I can chalk it up to just poor quality.

[Minor Tweaks 433, Getting F9 involved?]

After making a few of those adjustments (width to narrow, ticked off counter, cm(s) -> cm(a) we ended up with this goal. Probably one the better fm goals I've been able to produce. Was able to end with the playmaker playing the f9 through. 

In general the fullbacks, set to WBs and WBd pushed up a bit higher and there were a few more crosses. Crosses didn't feel excessive. 

Suggestions were very helpful towards getting the team playing more the way I wanted! 

[Minor Tweaks 433, Getting F9 involved?]

Will try those adjustments. I was opting for fb on support to try and limit the crosses. I cant figure out how to get them forward and then not mash crosses. Even with cross less ticked, they still hit it into the middle more than id like.  Any thoughts on what might be a better role for the AMR? The winger(s) seems to do okay. almost wondered if i should do CMs -> mezzala(s/a) to pair with the space of the winger.

[Minor Tweaks 433, Getting F9 involved?]

could you elaborate on that? In my head the roles/duties are setup to help with possession? Most of the players are on support (which I thought was key for helping retain possession)

Support keeps up with play / provides a 'safe' passing option, While attack tends to make forward runs and a riskier passing option?

[Minor Tweaks 433, Getting F9 involved?]

Needed some quick input / advice / fresh set of eyes on this. I will attempt to BOLD the points that I'm confused about. The rest is just ramblings / unneeded backstory probably. 

Was recently promoted - horrible transfer ideas + being promoted  year ahead of the timeline in my head before players really developed have put me in a weird spot. 

In being promoted I played a 442.  Scored a lot on counters from corners and some long passes from WPs. Won a lot of 1-0 games. Against low block it was just smashing crosses / missing headers. So I tried to pivot away from that upon promotion. So I'm guessing my problem with developing possession based tactics is going to be both a quality of player and design of tactics problem. 

Against mid/lower sided teams I've managed to get decent possession 60%+. I get smashed by top 6, but whatever, at this point I'm not concerned about those results. I'm mostly concerned about grinding out enough points against everyone else to stay up for year 2, really figure out what players I need to sign (currently I'm just signing budget guys / prospects that have one or two attributes I like and hoping they develop). 

I attempted reading Herne's post about possession with intent / building his 433 and the total guide to mentality (can't remember who wrote, will try and link them to give proper credit). So I've been using those as guides for trying to use role/duty to drive the attacking runs versus playing on high mentality - and then using TI to get the more aggressive pressing that I'm hoping for.

Heres what I've been attempting to roll with against most teams. I changed from cautious mentality to balanced in hopes of getting more offense, so far its been about the same. Possession has decreased slightly from 70% to mid 60%. 

Usually they pass the ball around the box (which I like, am hoping for). I suspect I need at least one other attack duty from the front 5, but am not sure where the attack should come from. At some point I've tried an attack duty on all of them (IFa + Wa, APa+ IWa, IFa + CMa.... etc etc) hoping to generate one additional runner into the box once we start passing around. 

Rationale for the front 5

AML role/duty - I've attempted IFa/s and IWa/s for the AML, and havent seen him really be dangerous to score. On support he doesn't seem to make the runs, and on attack he still seems to get the ball too far from goal to do much, but with attack duty he goes off on solo runs and seems to just turn the ball over. I honestly thought maybe the raudmentor role would work for that position since I want him to just finish moves.

ST - I feel like the whole idea is based around this guy being able to manipulate defenders / pull them out of position. Maguire has good (15?) off the ball and anticipation + team work. In game he I feel like he plays extremely static, once the ball is in the attacking third he stands like a statue. His traits of comes deep, plays one twos, I feel like would combine perfectly to help break down teams. 

AMR - I dont really know what I want from this role to be honest. Neither of the guys I have for it are very good imo - low mentals and low technicals. Barkhuezian is right footed so hes a winger, the other guy is left footed so he plays inverted winger. I'm unsure if they should be on support or attack duty. I want them to run into and attack the channel between cb/fb. But I dont really want them to dribble / be on the ball too much.

CML - APs.. Highest flair on team, decent (14+) passing, technicals and vision. Feel like if anyone is gonna pick out a pass cuts through the defense it will be him. Still unsure of the difference really between APa/s in terms of gameplay.. I want him to occupy zone 14 and play passes from there, I havent really figured out how exactly to get him there.

CMR - CMs, decent all around player without outstanding technicals or mentals.. I want him just hold possession when the ball comes to him. I've experimented with him as the additional runner with a CMa role. Have also tried as a b2b with get forward more ticked for PI. 

I want the F9 to pull a defender out of position and then have the IFa attack that space and have my midfielders hit him with a pass. Or if there some way to combine a wide player with the F9 and AP, I'm all for that to give and go our way into the box. 

Why is the false nine not involved at all???? How do I get him involved?

Two passes received in 60 minutes not from a throw in?? I feel like him dropping deep and doing a give and go with the AP or the CM should give him a chance to get into the box? If he drops deep and receives the pass, cant he then play in my IFa?

I have short passing ticked so I feel like the team should be using him in the buildup. The attacks usually end up with the midfielders passing amongst themselves then one of them will hit it wide to the Ws or IFa. Probably because I have wide ticked for team width - I want them wide for spacing, do I need to tick play through the middle?

 

Thanks for reading, hopefully there is some simple fix that I've just overlooked that someone can point out. Lack of player quality is definitely part of it. Am trying to get the system in place and then will train / recruit towards it. 

[How to utilize, increase dribbles / game]

Am hoping to understand how to use someone who can dribble. Am hoping to get someone in the mold of pulisic (under lampard), ASM, or Neymar when he plays as a LW (or as CAM too I guess...). I'm envisioning someone who will pick up the ball and hopefully be isolated 1v1 vs a defender, beat the defender and then start pulling other people out of position. Seems easiest to do this on the wings, as I can't seem to get any kind of 1v1 or space for a CAM to really ever play this way. 

I play 85% of my games with the 442. The tactic mostly works. Most goals come from the WPs on the left playing a long through ball, or from the FBa overlapping and crossing. In this tactic I'm hoping to turn the RM into a player that can dribble and beat people 1v1 when he does get the ball. The players I have currently for that position dont really fit as true wingers (they either lack pace or dribbling or both). I've tried winger a/s, inverted winger a/s, WMa with dribble more ticked on. 

15% of the time (when sean maquire is hurt) I switch to the second tactic and just hope the ball somehow bounces in. I'm more interested in trying to get the AML to be the person dribbling in this tactic. I was thinking APa? (I honestly don't understand the difference between the APa, IWa, and IFa in this position - ap attracts the ball more, then dribbles? IW gets the ball wide and then dribbles? IF gets the ball narrow then dribbles?) 

I'm hoping to sign a dribbler, and then throw them on at 60min or so if I need some magic. And am hoping to slightly tweak these two tactics when that happens to get them the ball and let them try to play hero ball. 

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

What role would you play people like ASM? Pulisic (under lampard)? Neymar? 

Thinking AML position - APa? Attract the ball and dribble at people before giving it up? Or should I be using IWa /IFa? Trying to figure out how to utilize high dribble rating players most effectively

[Help with Minor Tweaks for 442]

Good points... thanks! 

I have Pearson (dlps) ticked to more direct - since hes the only one i really trust to try and pass the ball more than 10 feet. In general I want to play on the counter less - that just seems to be the plays that result in attempts for me. Would you play an AP in the other CM spot ever? CM(s) seems to be best suited for the current Preston guys, but I'm hoping to bring in more technical ability to the position eventually. 

I tried having the outside guys on attack and noticed my possession dropped like a stone - so I assumed they were running away from everyone and there was no option left for anyone other than to smash it long and hope.  Their crossing lets me down. I mostly want them occupy wide space and open a channel for the forwards to run off the CB and then the FB is occupied with the wide player. Can I just leave it at normal width if thats my goal? The LM ocassionally gets the ball and is able to play a through ball for the forward to run onto (which is nice when it works). 

Agreed on DLF(s) - usually have him on that - seems like he wanders into the weirdest spaces when I just want him to occupy the CB so Ennis can run in behind. 

In past iterations of FM I havent been able to get the solo striker to work with a 433. Always turned into crosses that never connected. Have been dabbling with Harrop as AP(a/s) at AML when using the 433. Not sure if I'm understanding non central playmakers correctly. 

[Help with Minor Tweaks for 442]

Trying to work out a few things with my 442 . For the most part its playing the way I want. DLP(s) drops deep and is either spraying the ball wide or trying to hit one of the forwards who then chokes so hard on a 1v1 haha. Most of my goals seem to come on the counter attack - which I'm okay with for now. 

I'm struggling to identify when the other team is sitting back and how i can build up if that splitting pass isn't available. What piece of analysis can I look at to help determine their depth? (I've been watching the games on extended highlights)

I havent figured out how to get great production out of my wide players. the ML I have playing like an IW and it seems to be working okay (good dribbling / technicals / flair) the RM has been kind of a mess (pacey, but cant cross or shoot or pass). 

I havent figured out what role to pair in the CM - playing curtis jones there now , trying mezzala (hoping for a bit of creativity / playmaking but not a designated playmaker role). He seems to get lost in the game (had 7 touches in a half). The other cms that rotate through there are more b2b types and have been playing CM(s). 

 

The other issue I'm trying to figure out - how to win back possession against a 3 man midfield when they just pass amongst themselves. Have tried the dlf/cf (tinkering still between those 2 roles) marking the CDM. Some games end up 30/70 possession, which I think is a combo of being overrun in the midfield and then winning the ball and instantly trying to target one lone forward. 

 

So I'm not sure what tweaks I should make as plan B when the direct passes aren't working.

 

Thanks!

[Do I have the wrong roles selected? What did I do wrong?]

Thanks for the examples for the natural overlaps, definitely had more combos on there than I had been using / experimenting with. So that will hopefully open things up for me even further in the future. 

How do you decide DLP vs AP? How do I decide between a playmaker and just a CM(s)? I probably don't have a nuanced enough eye for the changes on the field when watching the games. I've been watching the games on full length, but have a hard time picturing how what I see is different than if I had a different role selected. 

I've noticed that the AP(s) moves a bit around a bit more (even without roam from position marked), while the DLP(s) seems to hold position more. I don't really understand if they are looking to play different types of passes though. 

For this tactic I'm guessing it makes sense to not have AP crowd the space that DLF is dropping into? 

Most of the players I've signed have attributes more suited for AP roles, since I figured they would be pushing up a bit more and sitting behind / supplying the through balls to the forwards - so I guess I'm sort of confused as to why that wasn't how it played out. 

 

[Do I have the wrong roles selected? What did I do wrong?]

18 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

You can try it and see if you notice any meaningful difference.

It plays a lot better / closer to what I was looking for. I at least get some passes into the box and the play doesn't grind to a halt out on the wings / have my winger try and slam crosses into the opposing full back. I'm a little confused as to why it plays so differently though - i didn't think the roles were that radically different than what I had in place before. And the TIs weren't super different than some of the combos I've tried previously before coming here for help. At any rate, I'm glad it is looking better. I suspect part of my problem is the quality of player, need the Qatari royal family to bail me out. 

If you ever do have time (please don't feel obligated) and could explain the thinking behind some of the roles / TIs or why they work well together. 

10 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

A PF(A) or DLF(A) is better. If you do the latter, then your striker will involve himself in the buildup play and you will see better transitions to attack.

Have switched to a DLF(a). Which has helped transitions quite a bit. I'm not super familiar with what the PF(a) actually does - since when I read the in game description it made it sound like someone who tries to win the ball back, but then when team has the ball, functions like an AF. I've seen PF recommended for a lot of the tactics that I've browsed through, so I should probably figure out what exactly they do / how they can be used... ha

Thank you both for feedback. Has helped me get going in the right direction after I got horribly off track. 

[Do I have the wrong roles selected? What did I do wrong?]

I've been banging my head against the wall and reading the forums to try and figure out where my footballing knowledge has let me down. Hoping asking for direct feedback to my situation will help me get to the root of the issue quicker. 

I feel like I've horribly misread roles/descriptions of what they're supposed to do.

My two issues with the screenshot image.

1. My mids clump together and their spacing reminds me of first grade soccer. My AML (have sit narrow PI ticked on) and FB are standing way too close to each other. The irony of this is only that my striker is eternally alone and never has anyone within 20 yards of him to support him. 

2. My team does not attack space with runs. When I watch this, the runs seem obvious? The CM(a) should be looking to run forward/attack space. I have no idea why my AP(s) is deeper than the DM on the left side, the whole point of changing him to AP from CM(s) was to get him 'between opponents midfield and defense'. 

What I'm hoping to correct / how I'm trying to get them to play

Ideally I'd like to play offensive football. I don't care a ton about the possession %, but I don't want to just be hitting hail mary long through balls (if that makes sense). I'm hoping for limited crosses. And if the ball does go to the wings I'm hoping they dribble and take on their defender. Primarily I'm hoping for build up through the central midfield and then once we get to the final third they play someone through. 

I'd like to get one of my center mids running into space (not starting there as an AMC - where they seem to get marked by DM, if they need to be there as AMC to get them into that space I guess I'll go that route). Once they get the ball there I'm hoping they dribble at the defense, as CB or FB steps to defend, they play a pass in behind to either the forward or winger. 

In the final third I feel like it gets too congested around the box and I can't get my AP in space to turn and play someone through. I feel like the forward stands around and the winger/IF stand and get marked. The CM(a) doesn't time his run very effectively and ends up not contributing much as he takes himself out of the play. 

I have been confused over if i I should be playing higher mentality (to encourage the runs I want into the box) or playing on a lower mentality (encourage them to recycle possession until there is a good opportunity to break through). 

Things I've tried vs what I'm trying to achieve with the role

RCM - I've had a mezzala on attack/support, haven't noticed much difference between that and the CM role. Am trying to have this midfielder be my runner who gets open in the box.

LCM - have tried CMs, DLPs, Roaming PM, B2B - ideally this is my creator (high flair, vision, technique, passing), I want him to play somone (anyone really) through from outside the box into the box.

Striker - DLF(s/a), AF, P, CF(s/a) - I swear he touches the ball twice a game in useless positions regardless of what role I have him selected for. He has high off the ball, anticipation, work rate, finishing. Am clueless as to why he has scored 8 goals in 2 years (usually its Mcquire and not Robinson playing there). 

Winger - Have tried both Attack and support - ideally I want them to dribble at the defender and pass to someone else, or have them tap in a cross to score. I personally don't notice a huge difference in how they perform either way. My crossing game is a D- (never have guys in the box, fine I guess for how I'm trying to play). 

IF - Have tried RMD, IF(a/s), Treq - I'm really just looking for the movement from the arrows. RMD has worked okay for that, but I keep getting suckered into trying to make the IF role work since in my head my wingers are higher skill / can dribble (so I think maybe they can contribute more to the build up). 

 

After typing all this out I feel like I'm just in a confused state / don't have a unified or clear cut philosophy.... which might be part of the problem... ha. Sorry for tangents. Thanks in advance for the help/guidance! 

[Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)]

why does my DLF seem to get on the end of more through balls than AF or P? 

What role should i be using to offer midfield support to my wingers - too often they end up cutting / running in 1v3 without looking to pass inside or play a through ball