ExeR
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Posts posted by ExeR
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53 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:
Also if you think it is broken. Show me your test. Give them right now. If it is indeed so broken as you claim, everyone here will agree with you. Once again, no outliers, but multiple seasons in multiple leagues of the problems you think are a problem.
Less complaining, more proofs pls.
Just so that you your head won't blow from importance, here you go Mr. Biggest Bugman:
Boss, next time you gonna try to freeroll people on wasting free time on proving things, while you use solid arguments of real footballers playing game, where you can win EPL with 120/130 PA, try to take some responsibility. You'll seem so much cooler like that.
Now, be a good friend to all the true fans and shut up haters like me. Give us all a tactic for latest patch, where Enganche performs well. You can use EPL starter PA/talent and play in 2nd tier league. Just this one simple task in an unbroken master piece, should be easy enough. Surely won't take as much of your time as you require from others.
Or, perhaps, you can show something like this https://fmfan.ru/topic/211-guidetofm-тактический-гайд/ FM testing related that you've done, so we all know you don't pull stuff out of your ass, as you imply with me. More proofs, boss.
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3 minutes ago, herne79 said:
And yes I agree, feedback from SI as well can always be improved.
But this is the key. Last patch "supposed" to be point of no return, realease version are already "stable beta" like. Constructive suggestions after last patch are between rock and a hard place. You can't have stuff that should be fixed in "alfa" making it's way to march, that's what bringing level of discussion down. That or multiyear recurring problems. And that "0 test &0 replies after last patch" attitude doesn't help.
I would gladly help with little problems of shapeshifting roles like Mezzala functioning in tactic based on particular width/tactical style. But instead you can't do that, because it's neighbour roles in formation don't work. Not Trq gets 8+ avg and Enganche only 7.8, but properly not working. You can't even test what you can possibly contribute as an suggestion/improvement, because core concept fails. That becomes a two way street not just in attitude, but also in possibilities. If SI wants suggestion/critique to be better, than they should make sure they do their part. If not, there's no way it doesn't end up being toilet wall.
That's why I didn't get your and other posters criticism. Even structurally, this topic can be much more productive if there were less posts with more attention to them. "Ask me" type format, with flood in separate topic.
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On 01/05/2019 at 16:52, Double0Seven said:
Once again, as always these threads and some bug reports are never detailed enough and you cant draw conclusions from a few outliers. I dont say its perfect, I just say people dont back up their arguments enough.
On 01/05/2019 at 17:11, herne79 said:If you can't have a civilised conversation with someone who happens to share a different opinion, then don't bother. I'm sick and tired of it too. Enough warnings have been left, it's probably about time we followed up on them.
On 01/05/2019 at 16:59, CFuller said:Personally, I am sick to the back teeth of certain self-centred, self-entitled users crying that the game is "broken" or "unplayable" and not backing them up. Whenever anybody challenges them for proof, they get defensive and just say, "I don't need to give proof. Look in the bugs forums, there's your proof."
But when it IS broken, then what? Should I explain to every rando that yes indeed I tested what I claimed, I went from 2018 to 2019(even waited for last patch) and forward passes for same role stopped functioning properly. Should I, as someone who wrote pages of feedback, translated and explained freaking 100+ page guides to local community and faced same BS year after year after year, keep my cool and just explain it in detail every single time? How much wasted time is enough, how many versions that pretended not to be beta bought is enough, how many unanswered post and "5 year too late implementations" of suggestions is enough? And all for what, so that Miles can produce some sort of twitter response, that's strikingly similar to yours? It's especially hillarious to read mod talk about it, when you have ability to fix situation or organize complaint structure so that people won't repeat themselves about same topics and just upvote informative/comprehensive posts written before.
Maybe one time SI answers to "informative" posters, and we don't have to write "it's all so tiresome" posts.
Maybe one time SI tests if Enganche and other roles work. Just take Messi with no Accel to a second tier league, how hard is that? Surely going from godlike 8+ to below 7 with 10 barely forward passes for "risky creator" role would be striking difference.
Maybe one time set pieces get tested. Again, very simple, you take maxed out guy with long flat throw and see how he does with 6 targets all told to go forward. Delap did well with worse, real prototype of player I used did well with not maxed long throws, Midtjylland did well. Surely this supercharged example works well in "realistic football simulation" trademark? Nah, it does nothing, it gets triggered in small zone, players don't follow instructions, ball never reaches even as far as penalty spot. 50 matches 0 goal scoring moments.
It goes on and on. Most of these examples are blatant, and it's obvious 0 tests were done. You can notice all these problems on first try. Simplest best/worst conditions test fixes ALL of that and most of other problems. You can't miss it, you can't find conditions for it to fail. There's only one explanation to it - it wasn't done. Year after year, same old story. In last version I even found a "mistake" in RPM's important attributes with teamwork not being listed, wrote it to guide text with screenshot and what do you know? It's back to important again. Would be a fascinating story to know how most "teamplaying" role got that attribute lost.
So should evil users stop saying it's broken and getting fed up about recurring problems, or should you stop pretending that SI is this angel of a dev, who somehow stumbled into toxic ultras of a fanbase? Maybe when Raumdeuter stops crossing ASAP and play as he supposed to according to his prototype player, role, team instructions, personal instructions (where crossing is not even available to control), we can talk about manners and being constructive. Because we're at that time of year again, when 2019 is past, and 2020 with it's own personal garden of problems (including broken roles) is on the horizone. And when it's released, I should wait for last patch? Because that always worked in the past? Keep digging that sand, head is not deep enough.
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5 hours ago, Svenc said:
Well purely stats-wise, depends whether over the entire Season or not. This is vice versa, but still: Burnley last term by mid December (match day #18) had comfortably conceded the most shots in all the top leagues in Europe.
Burnley have a plan for that, it doesn't just happen. You can't even implement that style properly in FM, there's no functionality to focus on blocking and opponent's shot zone control. But that's not coming from defensive side of the ball. Chelsea would be better example, they can't convert through passes and score from outside. But for every Chelsea there's City, who consistently cracks parked buses from outside. That's where my complaint is coming from. I've tested more than enough against all kinds of styles, and there's too much of "Burnley's opponent" and almost none of "City, Totenham, Arsenal". Even if I give players sick stats, that are better than those of EPL players in worse leagues.
As for AI being more prone to parking bus, I get it. But unlike City, I can't control opp's counterattacks with the way I attack like they do. As I said about width, you can't build up in half spaces or width, it's gonna be "MUM, I'M CROSSING" disaster again and again. And my wing forwards won't rush back as Sane does. So instead of 0 SoG like Bournemouth had against them, they'll always have some break through. But this is "in a perfect world" territory now. What I was talking about is much more destructive and frequent. Long shot preferred moves became some meta joke now. So many of them compared to their impact. Version after version people with poor vertical compactness or disfunctional roles complain about them. Yet the styles they should be perfect for it doesn't show opposite results. Even if you give them Hulk like shot, it won't matter. And unlike Hulk, who also had low percentage of realisation in some seasons, he opened game for his team and for his goals from inside the box by bending defences and having them respect his shot and react to him approaching box. And you'll never get splits like in his "good" seasons, where he scores almost as much from outside as he does from the box. So long shot ability doesn't deliver the upside on two fronts: productivity and affect on defence.
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Is it possible that just one time improvements will arrive without absolutely abhorent and unexplainable downgrades? I just don't get it and decided to try my luck and ask you (devs). I will try to keep it 2019 related, but historical perspective is important here.
Long time ago, I asked about regen generation problem and suggested how to fix it (you can check in post history). 6 years later it arrived, no more wonderkid galore in weak countries when you load league structure with many teams. Now talent being hard capped is problem and variety of regens still lacking, but if that was the problem I would never bring it up. It just shows that good things take a lot of time to get right for whatever reason. And when they're finally implemented, they should come with no downside and stay that way. Just like improving perfomance and number of crashes in 2019 compared to 2018. And ofcourse latest tactical menu upgrade, control over phases of play is very timely move in the age of tactical breakdowns and City+Liverpool dominance.
But that's where positives end and the reason I'm typing all this becomes clear. All the other examples are following the same pattern. Another long time issue was post game stats. In 2018, they became picture perfect, before being upgraded in older version for replays, linked actions and filtering. In 2013 you could only dream about that. Now when it was done and was perfect, 2019 arrives with a cluster**** of design. I would understand if I used some 3rd party skin or something, but seriously, how do you release something that has green clickable elements on "you never guess what color grass field is" background? I've intentionally skipped all facegen disasters, but it's up there. It's so easily fixed with just one eye test, that the whole situation is ridiculous.
But that's design, after all you can download some stuff and fix it yourself. Not always the option, but still. But some things you can't solve. Width has been killing me in FM for years now. It's almost always a sign of "broken" version even after the last patch. Now, when offence and defence are separate, things haven't improved a bit. In 2016, when description was players keep extra metres of distance (increasing passing radius etc), I tested it. Team with CL level talent and 20 in all passing attributes was in last place and sub 50% possession because of damn broken width. Now 3 years later, you can test attacking width on it's own, and lo and behold, it ruins everything again. 2019 is already cross heavy, you can't instruct otherwise and any movement of the ball to flank is a way to lose it to opposition's head. But what width does now is simply magical. Raumdeuter starts playing like a winger in wide attack. You know, the same raumdeuter that doesn't have crossing instruction available to being controlled. I get the idea of width affecting roles, but enough is enough. When role that is supposed to not function as winger starts receiving most of his passes on flanks and run straight ahead and cross ASAP it really feels stupid to open FM again. I'm not overreacting, because that's not the only example. But this thing ruining whole tactic functioning regardless of skill for multiple years is just unbearable.
Next stop is Enganche. Now this role is luckily "static", and I got to it after finding out about new chapter in "Width adventures". And this is where I don't know if I'm right so I will be polite and ask. You have some sort of data gathering about tactics, right? I want to believe that or at least that somebody is keeping up on roles chosen in shared tactics. Because I'm pretty sure this role is not just broken or weak, it's disfunctional. I don't ask for it to have Riquelme or Zidane spinning dribbles, just curious what happened to it. Whole attacking midfielder slot is tough to get right as is, with DMs man marking and being defensive specialists most of the time. But in 2018 I used it, it worked and had great results (even if it was good team where everything works). Now it's not working anywhere. You can make Messi slower brother to try it, and it will fail even with overpowered team. I tried everything, even pass accumulating style (I know rating system looooves passing numbers). But even that doesn't help, rating just drops below 7 from same guy, who had 6+9 in 12 games as other role. Enganche went from being risky playmaker to 9 forward passes a game. And all of them are barely targeted into opponents third. It's clear that it's been reworked, but wtf happened. It's not the first time I noticed some roles get that treatment, usually it's for just one version. But maybe one is too much. Libero suffered for all of them, it's enough. Btw Libero is another example of that same concept. Why can't it have Segundo Volante attacking tactical duties/functionality? It's very easy to figure out that he can't function as he supposed to in current state, he's too deep and supporting to help on quick attacks, and too safe in build up. His main edge in physical attributes (accel+speed especially) can't be used properly with the way he functions. Very demanding role ability wise, but can't even get into box for extra capable header and sprint back in case of failure, while other CD hold def. line as they usually do? It's been years now, years of this BS. Now you have SV as prototype, can you just give it's attacking functionality to freaking Libero? It's obviously be much better than "glorified BPD that doesn't dribble or shoot, despite tactical menus implying he would".
1 flank player tactics still doesn't work? That's the one thing I haven't tested yet, so I might be wrong. But when Conte won EPL, his 3-4-3 looke like 2 WB 2 flank forwards in FM if you wanted it to function properly.
GK ball distribution to zone is not working as well as to player. Which is too bad for all those trying to hoof it over defence f.e.
High intensity is too strong. Even Liverpool had to learn for couple of years to not die after 60 minutes, now you can implement their style and crush underdogs 7-0 even in smaller leagues
Long shots are a mess again. It's final piece of on again/off again holy trinity: width, crossing, long shots. I had 5% chances convertion rate and 33% SoG. Pretty sure you have to dig deep to find those in "just like in real life" examples. It's correlated with poor vertical compactness, but it shouldn't be such a problem if not for...
...advanced players rushing everything. It starts with stupid desire to cross and follow width instruction like fanatics (even poacher). But if advanced forwards could some time not run vertically and not shoot from tight angle it would be great. Go backwards sometimes, cut into different directions. Since holding ball and dribbling are exclusive, because dribbling is running into base line like young Adama Traore, would be nice to have some in between without pref. move of "Stops play". Playing with deep lines or def style with attacking advanced players is too tough just because of that. Attacks are rushed, decisions look ridiculous, there's no composure, even if attribute is high.
I don't know if I'll get an answer to any of these, but at least there's a hope it would be food for thought and somewhat constructive critique. If you fix Enganche and other "bad rating regardless of skill&tactic" roles, free Libero from his eternal "uselessness" torture, stop width from turning Raumdeuters into "decisions 5" wingers and, in general, stop breaking things that worked perfectly fine just version ago, I would be happy man. Because it's all so tiresome.
5
Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted · Edited by ExeR
You just talked... I mean ordered to show you proofs. I did. There're pictures there, you can see seasons being played, multiple games, multiple tactics, in-depth tactical analysis & theory used for all that. Since you escaped request by language dodging, there's guidetofm/guidetofootball in English. They're not good enough either? You're quality expert now that "people pulling stuff out of their behinds" argument failed? As expected.
Boss I don't understand, I owe you quality proofs and less talking or we're all friends now? I'm confused.
I provide constructive suggestions, pages of it, and it gets implemented. Later than I hoped for, but it happens. So thanks for explaining how life works. Allow me to disagree with what's childish and beta (we're all respecting each other opinions, right?). And I'm glad you found kindness in your heart to keep conversation adult. Now, once again so it won't be ignored, where can we find your contributions to hard job of FM testing (so that we have quality proofs ready at first request). And more importantly, where's that working Enganche tactic. I'm so insulting in my conviction that it doesn't exist (especially with quality proofs), that I'm childishly itching to try it out and stop mocking SI for things they haven't done. Can you save me, Mr, Bond?