Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Fred_the_Red

Patch 8.0.1. Shots to Goal Ratio not fixed - SHOCKING!! SI Please answer - believe to be related to Closing down and Long shots bug

927 posts in this topic

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

Again, you don't mention where the shots are coming from. You can't just look at the stats at the end of a game and not put them into context.

Also, I can't reply with a proper counter-argument until someone presents me with some facts and stats to make an argument in the first place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are many facts little throughout the forum with numerous threads like this, go on just ignore them. But if you are asking for ridiculous complete range of stats for 2 seasons than I suggest you think of a better excuses for SI failure yet again to make a proper working logical game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is perfectly possible for the same player to miss 3-4 one on ones in a match. If the same player is missing 10 one on ones, then there's a problem. If he is missing 10 one on ones per game for 5 straight games, then there is a major problem.

No-one has yet posted any screenshots showing the SAME player missing more than 2-3 one on ones in the same match, for 2-3 matches in a row.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tecni:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

Again, you don't mention where the shots are coming from. You can't just look at the stats at the end of a game and not put them into context.

Also, I can't reply with a proper counter-argument until someone presents me with some facts and stats to make an argument in the first place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are many facts little throughout the forum with numerous threads like this, go on just ignore them. But if you are asking for ridiculous complete range of stats for 2 seasons than I suggest you think of a better excuses for SI failure yet again to make a proper working logical game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I asked for 2 seasons worth because if I only asked for 1 season, then your team could have just been having a poor season, perhaps after a recent promotion.

Also, I haven't seen any comprehensive facts put forward which supports any argument, pro-SI or against-SI.

All I've heard is opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

It is perfectly possible for the same player to miss 3-4 one on ones in a match. If the same player is missing 10 one on ones, then there's a problem. If he is missing 10 one on ones per game for 5 straight games, then there is a major problem.

No-one has yet posted any screenshots showing the SAME player missing more than 2-3 one on ones in the same match, for 2-3 matches in a row. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only after missing 10 one-on-one for 5 matches than you would consider it a problem? Discussion is over than. You're unable to make reason with.

If someone did show you that, you would go on 'your tempo is wrong, you mentality is wrong, now show me 20 one-on-one misses for 10 matches in a row..'

You said you haven't seen any comprehensive facts put forward which supports any argument, but it's clear you are quick to dismiss the against-SI camp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

It is perfectly possible for the same player to miss 3-4 one on ones in a match. If the same player is missing 10 one on ones, then there's a problem. If he is missing 10 one on ones per game for 5 straight games, then there is a major problem.

No-one has yet posted any screenshots showing the SAME player missing more than 2-3 one on ones in the same match, for 2-3 matches in a row. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please tell me the last time a top quality striker missed 3 one on one chances with goalkeepers 5 straight matches in a row.

It doesn't happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well i've got 30+ games worth of stats now.

I'll have another season in next couple of days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it is happening to me every game.

Here is one example, may post more tommorow if I can be bothered:

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9620/kievmatchstatsjk8.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4877/kievplayerstatsbc0.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1300/kievgoodchancesdi9.jpg

As you can see Gyan in particular missed a lot of chances, and good ones at that. This wasn't a one if, it is happening every game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I understand that you work for SI so you can't say anything bad about them. Pity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do not "work" for SI. They do not pay my bills every month, nor do they feed my family. I have been highly critical of SI in the past especially with the following:-

International Football

The Youth Strcuture

The power managers have is far to much

Scottish Data (something I do work on) compared to other Nations

Transfer Fees*

Last years Scottish Stadium Bug

Queen's Park debt problem

But as a fan of a club, that this season in every game they have either lost or failed to win (with the exception of Celtic away) so 6 of the 14 games have absolutely dominated the opposition for long period of the game I see this as part of football.

The problem is the 2d match engine does not give a good picture of other things, like how sweet the shot was struck etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am fairly new to this game but the new patch has made some aspects of the game much better, but I think there is still work to be done.

I started a new game with this new patch and I have tried to follow the same tactics/bring in the same players as in my previous game.

Managing in League 2 with Macclesfield, one can obviously not afford top quality strikers, but I have succeded in borrowing some fairly decent young strikers.

The problem seems to be that too many good chances are spurned when on the beta patch they were neatly slotted away. This is with the same striker. I can't do screenshots, but one formerly deadly striker missed 6 one on ones in one game. This is against a goalie with low single figure scores in positioning, reflexes and one on ones.

The striker's finishing and composure are I think, 14 and 12. This is quite high for a Div 2 striker. I would expect him to miss 1 in 3 or even 1 in 4 of those kind of chances with the beta patch.

This now happens on a regular basis.

On the flip side, oppostion strikers, seem to be afficted but not to the same extent. I have the best goalie I can borrow, and this allows me to field a sort of 4 2 4 formation home and away. If I can then manage 10 or more point blank or one on one chances in a game I can normally sneak a 1-0.

I am not an expert, but the opposition keepers in Div 2 seem to play at an almost Gordon Banks level, which far exceeds their statistics. Many of them only have double figures in three or four goalkeeping attributes.

On the whole, the patch is a curate's egg. Good in parts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

OK, what we need is a collection of screenshots which together, might highlight a problem. At the moment, all I have to go on is people's opinions, and there's as many saying everything's fine as there is saying there's a problem.

If it genuinely is happening EVERY SINGLE GAME, then please post some screenshots (say 6), which clearly show the date of the game and the basic stats (such as On Target, Goals Scored, etc), so we can see what a common pattern is emerging in EVERY SINGLE and CONSECUTIVE games.

Then, if you could write next to each screenshot how many of the shots on target were from the 12 yard box.

Is that something you can do, as it might help to highlight the problem in a better way than anyone else has done so far. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please refer to the first post of the page. I provided more then 20 games for you guys to look at so have other people. Ive linked threads upon threads of others peoples posts. I honest dont know what you want. A whole season? I mean it would take me hours and hours to screen shot a whole season I thought over 20 games is enough to go by.

Oh **** it here are all the screens I taken.

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3343/asadadadqs4.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6581/666666666iu7.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1200/wqeqweqeqeqy8.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2195/2055793872_64997cb5fb.jpg?v=0

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3343/asadadadqs4.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6581/666666666iu7.jpg

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2442/66735943ps8.jpg

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/8476/aaaaaaaaaaqt2.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8014/00tp2.png

All you can say its my tactic. Well i have toned down the men (11), tempo (7) and creative freedom (10) and it is still happening.

What else do you want me to do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fred_the_Red, this problem really exists and If someone cant see it in his game, it means that he just cant make a good tactic to create enough chances. I'm gettin tired of this game. I cant imagin that I'm gonna say it, but it is November and my passion has already gone ..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone actually uploaded any save games yet? I'd love to have a look at a few, let someone independent check it out. I'm managing Inter in 2011 and have Fabregas, Messi, Ronaldo and Vicente creating chances for Aguero up front and i'm getting the same "problem" in some games. But there's also games where i've had 15 shots on goal to the opposition's 13 and won 4-0! The problem, if there is one, isn't some magical bias against the user, it's too many chances overall in games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to be honest since toning down the men, tempo and creative freedom I am scoring more goals. I dont know if this is due to players taking their time and slotting them in. I am still creating over 20 chances but converting more in tho. 95% of my games Im scoring 3 or 4 goals. So toning down those factos do help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

I have to be honest since toning down the men, tempo and creative freedom I am scoring more goals. I dont know if this is due to players taking their time and slotting them in. I am still creating over 20 chances but converting more in tho. 95% of my games Im scoring 3 or 4 goals. So toning down those factos do help. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It'll be down to players waiting for better chances before attacking goal. More thought will be put into passes, positioning etc and it leads to better conversion ratios.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fred, please give a screenshot from your tactic. I wanna c where you have put creativity and tempo. Thanks icon_wink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about bias, but something has changed dramatically with the new patch.

In some ways it is great because I haven't had any 40 yard scorchers scored by the opposition CB with a long shot rating of 3! One or two a season maybe but not one every other game.

On the other hand, the situation with one on ones and Gordon Banks goalies is a little over the top. Most real life Div 2 goalies and certainly the ones in this game would, I imagine be beaten more often than not by a Premiership reserve striker. This is not happening with the new patch.

On the beta patch, I was scoring 3 out of 4 of these chances. Now it is more like 1 out of 5 or even 6. With Div2 keepers and fairly good strikers I reckon 2 out of 3 would be a good ratio.

Thes are real one on one chances, with no defenders in hot pursuit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FlaSk4o:

Fred, please give a screenshot from your tactic. I wanna c where you have put creativity and tempo. Thanks icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7850/323242424tr8.jpg

Here. I still see shots where they miss sitters and a couple of wonder goals from outside of the box but not as much as before. I dont think I can tone it down any further tho.

If mentality and creative freedom needs to be that much further down inorder for players not to make stupid shots then I dont really see how you can play with higher creative freedom. I think the instructions this year are more senitive then before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

I think the instructions this year are more senitive then before. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Totally agree with you, but with so little cr. freedom and normal mentality, my team doesnt play the style I like most icon_frown.gif.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

It is perfectly possible for the same player to miss 3-4 one on ones in a match. If the same player is missing 10 one on ones, then there's a problem. If he is missing 10 one on ones per game for 5 straight games, then there is a major problem.

No-one has yet posted any screenshots showing the SAME player missing more than 2-3 one on ones in the same match, for 2-3 matches in a row. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you know why? Cause this player is now on the bench or playing reserves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was sceptical about this problem until I played a little further into the game. In fact, some of the matches that I have had the misfortune of witnessing make me pine for the days when commentary and stats were all a player had for help - a situation I, for one, was never unhappy with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

Again, you don't mention where the shots are coming from. You can't just look at the stats at the end of a game and not put them into context.

Also, I can't reply with a proper counter-argument until someone presents me with some facts and stats to make an argument in the first place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damian, I've virtually stopped arguing with the neanderthals here about this subject. It would probably be best if you did the same so you can keep your sanity.

My favorite laugh was when someone posted a tactic screenshot and it's just their team instructions. I couldn't imagine playing with just global settings and what that would look like having 11 players all doing the same thing. Then they claim "it's not my tactic!"

BTW, In my past 2 seasons as Liverpool, I only had one match with more than 30 SOG and I won 13-0 (over Wrexham in a friendly but hey). My average is 13SOG/9SOT and 2.2 goals a game. 85% of my goals are from strikers inside the box and they convert cummulatively a 3.5-1 ratio. (Torres/Kuyt go on streaks of form +/- but Voronin/Crouch score about 40% their SOT). I have TWELVE tactical variations with PLAYER-SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS and even then I tweak them for every single match depending on my exact squad matchup.

I don't work for SI. I've been playing this game in total for 3 months (FM07 & 08) and have never played CM or anything prior to this. I had the SAME EXACT PROBLEMS as everyone else moaning here when I started playing for the first time. I read everything I could possibly read about building tactics and FILLED A NOTEBOOK with instructions, match/player stats, AI tendencies, printed out blank scouting forms to fill in prior to any match showing my opponent's starting squad stats, etc.

After doing all of this work. I HAVE NO MORE PROBLEMS WITH SOG RATIO. Everything seems to work correctly and realistically to me, even when I lose. Once or twice a season there might be a ridiculous anomaly, but that's football.

As DamianY2J stated, if we all have the same coded game and the same coded patch, how come I don't experience this and you do. Very simple logic. Regardless of preconceptions, what worked before, stats of your players, etc, it must be something YOU are doing differently.

Should you have to do thesis research to acheive game balance? Although I've enjoyed working out the challenge, I would have to AGREE that the game is too tactically complicated and not plug & play enough. See, I AGREE WITH THIS!!!

In that case, it's not a bug in the game!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look lots of SI supporters are telling us what we see (10 shots one on one) is unimportant because thats not representative of whats going on, will someone from SI actually talk to us about this (and not just say no there isn't a long shot bug because no one gives a **** about that at this point). I for one want to know what SI have to say about whether the match we see is representative of whats going on (is creating 10 good chances and missing indicative of having a good tactic or a bad one?). This is a huge issue and no one from SI has given a view yet, thanks to all those trying to 'help' but you don't KNOW any better than we do.

So SI, are we creating 10 one on ones and not scoring because our tactic is bad? Simple question, simple answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most people don't complain for the sake of it, they complain because they are having problems,on this thread at least 100 different people are having basically the same problem, SI could earn some friends by just taking the time to try and help us understand. I know SI don't look in this forum often (which in my opinion is plain stupid) and I also know that many people think SI are saints for ever talking to consumers on these forums, but the fact is these topics are where the big issues are raised, are you satisfying your customers? Is the game fun? Is a there a balance issue? Does the game provide enough feed back? and on and on and on. We get angry because we all love football and want to play a game where we get to live the dream, the fact that your game inspires such hate (and love) should fill you with joy (if only at the thought of all the money) and you should take care to appear to be understanding to people issues, its not often on this forum that comes across and I think thats to your detriment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I am concerned If I tell my players to..

Play through balls often

Low creativity

Low long shots

I should not have a defensive midfielder smacking them from 30 yards each time he can no? I suppose it is my tactic eh? If it is not a bug you made a crap game tbh, because even if no options are available up front they should pass sideways and continue the build up.

Also fanboys, did you know that your tempo sliders and width slider should mean jack if you have a striker with a 1on1 chance to score, or a good chance? It comes down to player skills, and therefore my striker, Villa should score some of them. Just like it is not SAFs fault that Tevez missed an open goal, or could poor old tevez not control it properly because SAF had them playing too fast?

It is clear there is a problem, it is a problem either with the game or with people not understanding WHAT to do to fix this problem, why it happens, do the people who have working tactics know WHY they work? I bet one of my many failed tactics looked very similar, yet did not work anywhere near as well as yours.

I sit and watch 30 shots and the opponents score 2 on target, and wonder why it never happens to me, why do I not have 20 shots against my goal and score my only 2 chances of the game, ok it would not happen against a small team, but it could happen against a top side in the CL.

I have no passion for this game left tbh, I see tactical 'experts' telling all about how the can play but they only worked it out after trial and error non stop, these solutions make no sense at all either, I am making my team play slowly I have this formation set up well, but for some reason I go through a scheduled December slump every year. And the AI is always working out how to stop my world class players in season 2.

So besides being constantly frustrated I have paid 35 quid for a glorified data update, which the devs did not even bother to bug test it seems, because otherwise they would have spotted the glaring issues on release, and then get the acceptable version in a patch a month later when the game is now far cheaper. Should have atleast been paid for doing bug testing for SI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope my analysis about the match engine here can help those people with problem. I have posted in another thread, and I will quote the part why your striker keep missing when you are dominating a game.

Also, it's AI, not real world, although it tries to simulate real world, but no AI is 100% realistic. Analyze how AI works and think of tactics to beat it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Like I have said before, most people who have this problem is when they are donimating a game, usually with opponent's defenders defending deep. In this case of situation, even if you have a good, and seems to be a quality chance, you probably will miss, or you shoot it to the goalie or to his fingertip. Sometimes you have a striker with 20/20 finishing/composure and wonder why you keep missing in this situation.

The quality of the shot is heavily affected in this kind of situation, in another words, your striker's composure is affected by the surrounding defenders. The match engine is designed so that, when a striker shoots, every opponent within his 6 yard perimeter will affect his composure. 6 yard is just an approximate. No matter where the defenders stand, even if they are all standing behind the strikers, the AI would take those defenders into calculation for the composure for the striker, hence the quality of the shot.

The people who have this issue, think everytime when your stiker shoots, how many defenders are actually 6 yards within your stikers. More often than not, you have 3, not including the goalie. And that is exactly why your goals/shot on target ratio becomes very low.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh and this made me laugh.

JordanC:'I FILLED A NOTEBOOK WITH INSTRUCTION, MATCH/PLAYER STATS, AI TENDENCIES ETC ETC'

You see, SI that is the problem with your game. JordanC before you call people names using words which you think will make you sound clever realise that not everyone has the time and or is sad enough (seeing as you decided to insult normal people in this thread), to do what you did to solve the problem.

Oh and brains, you have no more SOG ratio problem, so you acknowledge there is a problem? I am quoting you here, because you were replying to someone who says he needs statistical proof (wtf btw?), which is a bit contradictory.

We clearly have you saying a SOG ratio exists, a in order to fix it you need to research and fill notebooks, which is why we have one ****ed up...'game'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hyperion666:

You see, SI that is the problem with your game. JordanC before you call people names using words which you think will make you sound clever realise that not everyone has the time and or is sad enough (seeing as you decided to insult normal people in this thread), to do what you did to solve the problem.

We clearly have you saying a SOG ratio exists, a in order to fix it you need to research and fill notebooks, which is why we have one ****ed up...'game'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um, what was the last part of my post? Let me repeat it:

------------------

Should you have to do thesis research to acheive game balance? Although I've enjoyed working out the challenge, I would have to AGREE that the game is too tactically complicated and not plug & play enough. See, I AGREE WITH THIS!!!

-------------------

I assume SI knows the intricacies of their own match engine and can test it thoroughly. If they have found no problems and others haven't either, obviously they have a further understanding of the nuances of the gameplay. Based on their experiences, the match engine works adequately.

The game is very difficult and there aren't really any plug & play solutions. The tips suggested for controlling your SOG ailments are typically correct but extremely broad. This is because every team & opponent is made up of different players, morale levels, etc. and it's very important to realize this before you breeze through the game.

Here's one of those tips that was touched upon a little:

Strikers tend to be very streaky and morale-driven regardless of their ratings. Once they start doing well, they will go on a run of being virtually unstoppable. Once they start doing poorly, it snowballs into despair. In my 4-4-2 style formations, I tend to rotate 4 strikers game to game depending on their form & morale. If a ST is struggling a bit, I try to tone down his role that game and only supply him with balls that will have a high success rate (usually direct passes into wide space). If he underperforms even then, I sub him even if he's the best damn striker on the continent. I may sit him out for 2-3 games as well or go with a 1 ST tactic. Keeping a struggling attacker in a main role, although eventually getting out of his slump, usually turns out to be a debacle of missed chances. I usually have struggling strikers sometimes playing a free role up top with little CD so they have freedom and less pressure to deal with.

In addition, if all your strikers seem to be doing horribly, then the tactic you are using isn't utilizing them properly. Example: having a poor jump/heading but pacey ST set to be a deeper target man for passes. After losing 5-6 headers that he clearly can't handle, his morale & rating will plummet which will make he more ineffective even in another role. Also realize that if you have a primary AMC playmaker type that is the center of your attack and HE is performing poorly, it tends to resonate to everyone else since they aren't being fed balls well and having to chase out of position on attack.

Like I said before, the game is VERY difficult and you cannot plug and play. It's not a bug in the game.

(and I'll repeat yet again, I'm not arguing the fact that you shouldn't have to do all this work to succeed. We're debating a programming flaw based on a match engine tested by users who have exemplary gameplay knowledge. Maybe SI would benefit by having more casual players test their game? That's a constructive idea.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So here is what IMO is going on here -

World class defenders are not scaling as well as world class attackers.

It has been mentioned before that almost everyone complaining of this issue is using teams that contain world class players. Myself Ive been playing using lower league teams and after 2 seasons now Ive just not seen this issue. I can count on one hand the amount of games Ive seen where shots gets near 30 per game, and they are almost always cup games where Im playing a team of a lower standard.

I see shots per game in the 7 - 15 range almost every game ... for both my team and the AI. Thats even with trying different tactics etc The shots/goals ratio do seem to increase when playing a fast attacking tactic but not to the extreme range talked about here.

So tactics DO seem to affect this issue but its not the whole story IMO. I think, as mentioned above, there is a coded imbalance in the way the defenders prevent things like attacking runs etc that in lower league teams is very obvious where as playing with the better teams starts to break down.

M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've gone back to beta - still buggy as hell, but at least I am rewarded for creating point blank chances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hyperion666:

Oh and this made me laugh.

JordanC:'I FILLED A NOTEBOOK WITH INSTRUCTION, MATCH/PLAYER STATS, AI TENDENCIES ETC ETC'

You see, SI that is the problem with your game. JordanC before you call people names using words which you think will make you sound clever realise that not everyone has the time and or is sad enough (seeing as you decided to insult normal people in this thread), to do what you did to solve the problem.

Oh and brains, you have no more SOG ratio problem, so you acknowledge there is a problem? I am quoting you here, because you were replying to someone who says he needs statistical proof (wtf btw?), which is a bit contradictory.

We clearly have you saying a SOG ratio exists, a in order to fix it you need to research and fill notebooks, which is why we have one ****ed up...'game'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

QFT.

The user is at such a disadvantage compare to the AI manager or even your own ass man. The AI manager knows what exactly does creative freedom stands for and what does it affect during matches whereas the users knows nuts about it. The mentality, width, tempo, at which notch of the sliders does it do what?

I read the tactic and training forum and all they have there is theory which is neither confirm nor reject by SI. This is unacceptable, what's the difference between closing down own area at first notch or at second notch, nobody can give a conclusive answer. Than in the game we can't test the tactic during training, hence we have to pay for the testing of our tactic with potential lost of points during competitive matches.

If SI believes the only way their game should be play is spending weeks reading all the endless theories and having notebooks to copy down tactics point, AI tendencies, PRINT OUT BLANK SCOUTING FORM TO FILL IN( This takes the cake totally) than I suggest you put a huge disclaim on the packaging of the game, 'ONLY FOR SAD PEOPLE WHO ASPIRE TO BE A TACTICAL GENIUS BUT CAN'T GET A REAL LIFE MANAGEMENT JOB'.

If I have to do all that about for a freaking GAME I might as well apply to be a real manager, at least I can really use my salary unlike in FM.

Before anyone said its' for the sake of realism, there has to be a balance between realism and a enjoyable gameplay process. There are a lot more little things SI should get down and fix to achieve realism than spending more times to make the tactical parts more complicated and coding intentional bugs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those people who have no problem with shots to goal ration I would like them to screenshot me some examples of their shots/goal ration stats. Dont be picking out games that are show no tread. A batch of 10 or so should do.

As I have already said I have toned down my tactic now which does give me better conversion rate. But I still see a high number of shots. Why is that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One think I would like to know is what creative freedom does exactly. As I have always understood it is how creative a person is on the field how they create scoring chances.

In this game it seems to suggest how much creative flair they use in trying to score goals from impossible angles or impossible situations example shooting from edge of the area, trying too hard to score easy goals, missing easy sitters because it wants to be flashy and chip the keeper instead of passing wide, playing through ball, passing back, building play up.

On one and one situations I dont think I have ever seen a player try to go round the keeper, or shoot at corners. Instead he likes to shoot straight at the keeper maikng keepers save them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

On one and one situations I dont think I have ever seen a player try to go round the keeper, or shoot at corners. Instead he likes to shoot straight at the keeper maikng keepers save them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes exactly, that is the main problem.

we are having up to 10 of these situations per game and they very very rarely go in.

The only time they seem to go in is if it rebounds of the keeper and either the original striker puts it in or another player runs in because thankfully they can score open goals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We discussed in the FML beta and I looked up the real life stats of a couple of players, a serie A striker had a ratio of 70% goals to shots on goal last season, this season so far it is 36%, which should the game replicate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Myros:

OK here's a real world stat for comparison:

Team Man City (season so far)-

Games played 13

Goals 15

shots : on target 75

shots : off target 63

Another random stat (season so far):

Games played 13

Manchester United have had most Shots On Target (49), most Shots Off Target (55), most Shots Per Goal. (26.00) and most Corners (51)

See the 26 shots per goal stat? ;p

M </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um... so Man UTD have shot 104 times in 13 games, with 26 shots per goal... they scored four goals in 13 games?!?

Anyway, here's a few screenies from me.

Pre-patch game:

bolognavjuventusstatsmaxr6.th.png

Even though Bologna were outplaying my Juventus side, Buffon's excellence prevented them from scoring. My own players only had 6 shots on target, but one went in.

And another, this one with game patched:

laziovjuventusstatsmatcxm2.th.png

As you can see, it's pretty much the same stats. So I suppose it all comes down to the way your team plays. I don't get many longshots, but on previous versions it happened a lot, especially with DM's trying them at every chance they got.

I do agree that top-rate strikers tend to miss more one-on-ones than would be comfortable and that it's annoying at times, but I'm not seeing the numbers mentioned in this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem addressed shouldn't be that strikers are missing 10 one-on-ones a match. The problem is why there are 10 oe-on-ones every match in the first place. When was the last time a real life match had this many chances?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ljdzsgffk:

The problem addressed shouldn't be that strikers are missing 10 one-on-ones a match. The problem is why there are 10 oe-on-ones every match in the first place. When was the last time a real life match had this many chances? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes that is true.

to fix it the amount of one on ones should be reduced but at the same time the chances of scoring one on ones should be increased a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

Yeah alot of goals are from rebounds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true - So many times has it happened, that I have wondered if it is a ploy of my strikers to smack the ball against the goalkeeper to leave them an open goal rebound from which to score.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I miss champ 01-02 style of playing. Hate the 2d pitch, takes way to long to complete a match.

Has anyone tried comparing games, where its only commentry, and games play fully on 2d pitch mode?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why cant i edit my post?

anyways, does anybody else feel that fm doesnt have the playability that champ 01-02 series did?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rich_Millers:

I miss champ 01-02 style of playing. Hate the 2d pitch, takes way to long to complete a match.

Has anyone tried comparing games, where its only commentry, and games play fully on 2d pitch mode? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rich_Millers:

I miss champ 01-02 style of playing. Hate the 2d pitch.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we are largely alone in feeling this way, sadly. The tactical complexity of FM probably now means that a player could barely survive without a 2D pitch, but the numerous problems that it has brought seldom leave me feeling that I'm getting a more realistic experience than I had all those years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by totti_is_god:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rich_Millers:

I miss champ 01-02 style of playing. Hate the 2d pitch.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we are largely alone in feeling this way, sadly. The tactical complexity of FM probably now means that a player could barely survive without a 2D pitch, but the numerous problems that it has brought seldom leave me feeling that I'm getting a more realistic experience than I had all those years ago. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont use the 2d pitch and i'm currently 3rd in the prem with manutd after 24 games with 2 games in hand on chelski and arse. Just bought aguero and wijnaldum for over 30m

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a few answers:

Why should I have to compile a notebook's worth of notes to get rid of this problem?

An in-depth problem such as this requires an in-depth solution. Those people that are experiencing the SOG/Goals poor ratio problem are normally still winning the game, so they can easily just "pick up and play" the game and get success. However, if you start to look more in-depth at the details of each match, and think "Hmm, I only won 40% of headers" or "my SOG/goals ratio is poor", then a complicated solution is needed.

If a complicated solution wasn't needed, then people would be posting on here a lot more saying the game is too easy.

You don't even have to make a notebook's worth of notes - just fiddle with the tactics yourself, make logical decisions and see what happens. Many real life managers use the "trial and error" method of tactics, they will try something and if it doesn't work as they want, they will try something else.

Instead of instantly coming on here and moaning, try experimenting. If you are having a lot of problems even after experimenting, then that's why the Tactics forum exists - to help you.

Why won't someone from SI comment?

They did. Right back on Page 1, they said they didn't believe there is a problem. If they have been paying attention to this thread, then they would have seen the same thing I have - people posting opinions. No-one has posted a collection of stats, together with their tactics so SI can't make a comment. No-one has posted proof, and it is needed for SI to be able to "fix" it.

There is as many people saying something's wrong as there is saying there's nothing wrong. SI can't fix what doesn't exist, and the fact it exists in your own personal game, doesn't mean it's a global problem.

I'll have to repeat this again - it's the same coded game and coded patch that everyone is using. Some people have the problem, some don't. Therefore, it stands to reason it's something you're doing that is creating the problem, and therefore, isn't something for SI to fix.

Why are people denying there's a problem at all?

I, for one, am not SI's biggest supporter. I am a huge fan of CM 01/02 and still play it daily, and only play FM07/08 every now and then. That's only because the game has become so huge and so in-depth (which most users on this forum demanded) that it's become too much of a committment for me to play. I prefer the simplicity of CM 01/02, but I appreciate that FM has to develop year after year and become bigger and better. Gamers demand that.

I also accept that FM08 is not perfect. There is a lot of problems with it. I actually enjoy FM07 more than FM08, but again, that's a personal opinion.

I accept there is a problem with how the game is graphically represented, and this misrepresentation can sometimes lead people to say "Why didn't he just shoot?". It may be the case that he wasn't able to, was on his wrong foot, was a bit unbalanced, or the defender was really close to him - the 2D pitch can only show so much, and perhaps doesn't get it spot on all the time.

However, FM08 is what we've got. It's the best game released by SI so far, and none of the bugs stops people playing it. Perhaps there is some statistical or gameplay problems. But until someone is able to compile some information to show this clearly, nothing can be done about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rich_Millers:

why cant i edit my post?

anyways, does anybody else feel that fm doesnt have the playability that champ 01-02 series did? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was the best version ever...far from the fm of today

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading this I went away and looked at my teams stats compared to the AI teams playing against me. I am Wellington Pheonix (the worst team in the A-League) and play defensive counter attacking football, with passing down both flanks. I was shocked at the stats.

My Stats were.

Total shots 136

On Target 83

% on Target 61%

SOG Ratio 23%

AI Teams Stats

Total Shots 161

On Target 72

% On Target 45%

SOG Ratio 10%

This was after 14 games of the regular season and clearly shows the game is biased towards my attackers. I have scored 27 and conceded only 7.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to be honest i dont see much of a problem.

i get about 9 shots on target per game. which is roughly what the oopo get. if i'm trounsing them i'll get much more.

i'm scoring about 3 goals a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those last 2 posts just show that some people are experiencing the problem and some aren't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.