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Fred_the_Red

Patch 8.0.1. Shots to Goal Ratio not fixed - SHOCKING!! SI Please answer - believe to be related to Closing down and Long shots bug

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">HE ****ING PASS IT STRAIGHT AT THE KEEPER. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This actually is a problem.

There needs to be a much wider variety of misses from one-on-one situations. The number of goals scored, on average, is pretty much correct. However, the manner of these misses are not.

There needs to be a lot more examples of shots being hit wide, hit against the post, hit to the side of the keepers but being saved etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been saying this for God knows how long. there is not enough variation in one-on-one situatuions. IF under no pressure from defenders players should round the keeper, if rushing quickly at keeper and he comes out a chip is possible, nutmeging the keeper, etc.....

At the moment its just trying to pass it into the net.

These observations are from fm 07, so im not usre if anythings changed in football manager 2008.

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JUst beat Espanyol 3-0, who are ssecond in the Spanish league. I am first in EPL with Man Utd. I completely dominated and had 5 times more chances than them. True midfeilders had a lot of shots but in one of my chances, Rooney had a shot from inside penalty box. He missed but it wasn't that easy. It rebounds to Henri Saivet, who is about a metre away from the far post, it goes to his feet, but instead of shooting it to the corner of the net (which is even easier), he shoots it straight at the goalkeeper. Luckly, Micah Richards, the well-known finisher does what Henri Saivet couldn't do and shoot it in the corner to score.

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How do i get my players to stop taking pot shots and do as they are told?.

I have completely removed long shots and creative freedom from EVERY players instructions, yet they continue to take shots from the most ridiculous angles and distances, which is made more annoying by the fact that there is always a simpler ball to play and they do have through ball instructions?.

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I have done some more statistics from my game and I am almost certain this is down to playing against poorer teams and or players to you. Maybe it is the way the AI is trying to prevent stupidily high scores or maybe it is giving too much bias to small teams.

First off, my team is an average side which is over preforming in the league and I believe it is this small team bias effect which is helping me. Lets have a look at the stats over 22 games in the season:

My Stats

57% of all shots attempted are on target. (301 shots, 171 on target)

13% of these shots led to goals - (301 shots, 40 goals)

23% of shots which were on target resulted in a goal (171 shots on target, 40 goals)

AI Stats

55% of all shots attempted are on target (295 shots, 163 on target)

9% of all shots led to goals - (27 goals from 295 shots)

16% of all shots which were on target resulted in a goal (163 shots, 27 goals)

Now the above looks good all round to me, the statistics are similar for the AI as they are for me. I would expect mine to be slightly better as I am up near the top of the league and peforming well.

HOWEVER!!

I have singled out games against "rubbish" teams and lower league teams. These are the teams I should be beating easily and scoring lots of goals against. But this isn't what happens:

My stats (vs rubbish teams)

67% of all shots are on target

6% of all shots led to goals

9% of shots on target led to goals

AI Stats - rubbish teams vs me

51% of all shots are on target

19% of all shots led to goals

36% of all shots on target led to goals

Look at this massive and quite frankly ridiculous difference! 36% of AI rubbish team shots on lead to a goal compared to the normal 16%. This means rubbish teams are almost TWICE as likely to score with the shots they are having, and in addition to this your own teams ability to perform is almost halved !

The reason I think this is relevant is reading over the thread people are throwing around names of world class strikers and finishers. I believe they are experiencing this small team bias because their players and teams are so much better than who they are playing. This was almost identical on FM07 and I complained about it back then but couldn't be bothered to do any stats for it. I will continue tracking these stats over the season to see how they change but I have a fairly large data set now.

I know people are taking of missing easy chances etc but I think this is just the way the match engine is representing the result. We know the match is calculated before you play, so it has decided you are going to be unlucky and lose to a small team but it needs to create some chances that you miss - The problem is it is just creating easy looking chances.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">JUst beat Espanyol 3-0, who are ssecond in the Spanish league. I am first in EPL with Man Utd. I completely dominated and had 5 times more chances than them. True midfeilders had a lot of shots but in one of my chances, Rooney had a shot from inside penalty box. He missed but it wasn't that easy. It rebounds to Henri Saivet, who is about a metre away from the far post, it goes to his feet, but instead of shooting it to the corner of the net (which is even easier), he shoots it straight at the goalkeeper. Luckly, Micah Richards, the well-known finisher does what Henri Saivet couldn't do and shoot it in the corner to score. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know I went to a game on Saturday you may have heard of the match taking place, where a player who had scored one of the goals of the tournament a month before in the same stadium (opposite goal) was 5 yards out, with the goal at his mercy, but all he could do was shoot right at the keeper, lucky the keeper could not hold on and the captain managed to bundle it in.

So the point?

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Probably gonna get shot down for this one time occurance example but did anyone see what Torres did today?

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1. Surely your team has won at least once against the run of play....and I dont see you complaining about that?

2. Remember West Brom has drawn a match against Man City 1-1 even they have no shot (on or off target) in the entire match? that wasnt that long ago

3. football is a game and it is a cruel game

4. When I was managing England, I frequently watch the AI vs AI games, more than you do I believe, and I also see frequently that a team dominated and failed to win......

5. So please stop making new, pointless threads like the one you did

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Probably gonna get shot down for this one time occurance example but did anyone see what Torres did today? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't see it but the audio commentary had him missing a bunch of sitters including several 1-in-1s.

I think what people are troubled by is not a 1 or 2 off performance like this, but a perpetual pattern where, say, Torres would always miss sitters and 1-on-1s.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I didn't see it but the audio commentary had him missing a bunch of sitters including several 1-in-1s.

I think what people are troubled by is not a 1 or 2 off performance like this, but a perpetual pattern where, say, Torres would always miss sitters and 1-on-1s. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, torres does, in fact he scores brillient "hard" goals yet miss easier ones.

So does guys like Forlan.

In fact even a good poacher like Owen missed quite a lot of 1 on 1s......

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i dun wanna complain but..

i barely win by 1:0 when i had 34 shots, 16 on target i end up having rely on a wonder strike from someone to barely scrap thru, not too happy

the problem was fixed in the beta patch, but i dunno why scoring is so much harder in the full patch with same players and tactics

i just wonder how can my strikers have composure of 20 when they keep missing or shooting at keepers lol

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Actually, torres does, in fact he scores brillient "hard" goals yet miss easier ones. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Feltus:

Agrees with Fred.

Almost every game I have like 3-4 times more shots than my opponent, and I aint winning, thats for sure..

Seem to have this problem only when im playing attacking football with quick tempo..

Anyone else who can confirm the same?

Feltus </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here are my tactics

th_22822_Tactics_122_983lo.jpg

And this is the result of said tactics

th_22827_Missed_Peno_122_958lo.jpg

I'm not saying it is a bug, but it IS very frustrating, and the first time I've experienced such a thing in my 10 years playing the game. It has nothing to do with losing, drawing or even winning, I just cannot understand how to rectify it, I'd settle for less shots but actually being able to put them away, I have to agree with the author of this thread.

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K, PAINFUL, I just got ripped apart at home, completely battered, but I won 1-0, my goalkeeper (very good for the championship) got injured in the 3rd minute and I had to bring on my 5th choice keeper (all my keepers are now injured except for him) and he just played the game of his life, he made 10 BRILLIANT saves and then in the 89th minute we scored and won. This was as absurd as anything I've seen in this game, his highest stat is 13 (reflexes BTW) and in his only games before (the season before last in league 1) he averaged 6.6 over 10 games. I'm not pretty sure he got some sort of hidden boost to his stats (the I've got to take my chance here!! boost). Anyway in the next game he came out to clear the ball and kicked it straight at their striker who scored earning him a 5 so normal service was restored.

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<STRIKE>I'm not pretty sure he got some </STRIKE>

I'm NOW pretty sure he got some...

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I wish I had a screenshot of the game I lost on FM07 with Barnet against cheating bastard Norwich in the playoff final of the Championship, I lost 3-0 with them only having 2 shots and only 1 on target and me having 20ish shots. That was the end of my FM07 disc, not for any particular reason just because it would remind me the game/s hate for me and that I was owed that super goalkeeper performance.

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I can't keep saying this, but I'll repeat it 1 more time:

- Unless it happens to everyone, it isn't a problem with the coding of the game. As it only happens to some people, it must therefore be a problem with their playing of the game.

- There are a lot of forums on here for people to sort out any problems they have with their tactics, formations, etc. Some solutions have already been posted in the Tactics forum on how to get the best from your team.

- Unless comprehensive statistics are posted from people from at least 2 seasons, detailing the seasons worth of shots on target, shots off target, goals scored, where the shots were taken from, the position of the player shooting, and all relevant game files uploaded to the SI FTP to back up the stats, then both myself, and SI will refuse to consider there is a genuine problem with the game. A member of SI posted on the first page of this thread saying he didn't believe there was a problem, and neither do I, and without stats or some form of proof, then this discussion is largely irrelevant.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T-Bag:

I have done some more statistics from my game and I am almost certain this is down to playing against poorer teams and or players to you. Maybe it is the way the AI is trying to prevent stupidily high scores or maybe it is giving too much bias to small teams.

First off, my team is an average side which is over preforming in the league and I believe it is this small team bias effect which is helping me. Lets have a look at the stats over 22 games in the season:

My Stats

57% of all shots attempted are on target. (301 shots, 171 on target)

13% of these shots led to goals - (301 shots, 40 goals)

23% of shots which were on target resulted in a goal (171 shots on target, 40 goals)

AI Stats

55% of all shots attempted are on target (295 shots, 163 on target)

9% of all shots led to goals - (27 goals from 295 shots)

16% of all shots which were on target resulted in a goal (163 shots, 27 goals)

Now the above looks good all round to me, the statistics are similar for the AI as they are for me. I would expect mine to be slightly better as I am up near the top of the league and peforming well.

HOWEVER!!

I have singled out games against "rubbish" teams and lower league teams. These are the teams I should be beating easily and scoring lots of goals against. But this isn't what happens:

My stats (vs rubbish teams)

67% of all shots are on target

6% of all shots led to goals

9% of shots on target led to goals

AI Stats - rubbish teams vs me

51% of all shots are on target

19% of all shots led to goals

36% of all shots on target led to goals

Look at this massive and quite frankly ridiculous difference! 36% of AI rubbish team shots on lead to a goal compared to the normal 16%. This means rubbish teams are almost TWICE as likely to score with the shots they are having, and in addition to this your own teams ability to perform is almost halved !

The reason I think this is relevant is reading over the thread people are throwing around names of world class strikers and finishers. I believe they are experiencing this small team bias because their players and teams are so much better than who they are playing. This was almost identical on FM07 and I complained about it back then but couldn't be bothered to do any stats for it. I will continue tracking these stats over the season to see how they change but I have a fairly large data set now.

I know people are taking of missing easy chances etc but I think this is just the way the match engine is representing the result. We know the match is calculated before you play, so it has decided you are going to be unlucky and lose to a small team but it needs to create some chances that you miss - The problem is it is just creating easy looking chances. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great analysis mate. icon14.gif

Though this is hardly suprising - SI obviously had to do something to make sure small teams don't lose by ridiculous amounts. Though the fix is obviously too crude.

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Damn, i hate ppl who think they know about tactics. "fix your tactics".

IT IS IRREALISTIC THING! 32 shots, 23 on goal and no goals. The players sometime look like a bunch of school players, kids. They shoot at the keeper's hand.

And, our keeper is always inferior. Almost always, the opposite keeper do impossible saves, no mather his stats.

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No matter what you say, 'oh, its realistic', 'oh, thats tactics'... THAT DIDNT HAPPEN ON FM07!

IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED!

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I have never seen the match engine so bad icon_frown.gif

I actually thought the game was pretty good with the beta patch but as what normally happens, new problems are created.

It is very common for me to be having 30 shots per game (which in itself is unrealistic) and more than half on target. Despite all these shots I am only wining by the odd goal which is ridicolous.

Don't tell me it's my tactics because it was working fine in the beta patch.

Don't tell me it's because my team are taking long shots from midfield because most the shots are in fact one on ones with the keeper.

Please can somebody explain why it seems that no conventional goals are scored after the patch!!?? My strikers have about 10 shots each per game (Berbatov, Gyan, Aguero, Huntelaar) and they are pretty easy chances but I am lucky if they put one of them in.

The trouble is the only goals that go in since the patch are complete flukes, it's actually almost impossible to score normal goals.

I really can't beleive how bad it has become, I think I will go back to tbe beta patch.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">No matter what you say, 'oh, its realistic', 'oh, thats tactics'... THAT DIDNT HAPPEN ON FM07!

IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I LOLed, you didnt play 07 did you?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don't tell me it's my tactics because it was working fine in the beta patch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The trouble is the only goals that go in since the patch are complete flukes, it's actually almost impossible to score normal goals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

your tactic was exploiting a loophole in the beta patch?

and I just beat Bremen 3-0 with Arsenal, all my goals are great team goals.....so how can you say only "fluke goals" goes in?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ATW:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">JUst beat Espanyol 3-0, who are ssecond in the Spanish league. I am first in EPL with Man Utd. I completely dominated and had 5 times more chances than them. True midfeilders had a lot of shots but in one of my chances, Rooney had a shot from inside penalty box. He missed but it wasn't that easy. It rebounds to Henri Saivet, who is about a metre away from the far post, it goes to his feet, but instead of shooting it to the corner of the net (which is even easier), he shoots it straight at the goalkeeper. Luckly, Micah Richards, the well-known finisher does what Henri Saivet couldn't do and shoot it in the corner to score. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know I went to a game on Saturday you may have heard of the match taking place, where a player who had scored one of the goals of the tournament a month before in the same stadium (opposite goal) was 5 yards out, with the goal at his mercy, but all he could do was shoot right at the keeper, lucky the keeper could not hold on and the captain managed to bundle it in.

So the point? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand that you work for SI so you can't say anything bad about them. Pity.

Anyway here is the chance. I have drawn an arrow to show where he shot it its not perfect but the direction was that it would just touch the net on the other side. It would be so much easier to shoot it somewhere else apart from straight at the goalkeeper.

You can see where Richards is (nummer 11), he scored from where he is in the screenshot after the rebound.

Saivet shot

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

I can't keep saying this, but I'll repeat it 1 more time:

- Unless it happens to everyone, it isn't a problem with the coding of the game. As it only happens to some people, it must therefore be a problem with their playing of the game.

- There are a lot of forums on here for people to sort out any problems they have with their tactics, formations, etc. Some solutions have already been posted in the Tactics forum on how to get the best from your team.

- Unless comprehensive statistics are posted from people from at least 2 seasons, detailing the seasons worth of shots on target, shots off target, goals scored, where the shots were taken from, the position of the player shooting, and all relevant game files uploaded to the SI FTP to back up the stats, then both myself, and SI will refuse to consider there is a genuine problem with the game. A member of SI posted on the first page of this thread saying he didn't believe there was a problem, and neither do I, and without stats or some form of proof, then this discussion is largely irrelevant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To all those people who are still saying they have a problem, I can only refer you back to the above.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ArseneFM:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don't tell me it's my tactics because it was working fine in the beta patch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The trouble is the only goals that go in since the patch are complete flukes, it's actually almost impossible to score normal goals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

your tactic was exploiting a loophole in the beta patch?

and I just beat Bremen 3-0 with Arsenal, all my goals are great team goals.....so how can you say only "fluke goals" goes in? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but my tactic still works, we still create good chances, only now we hardly ever score them.

My strikers often get ratings of 5 because they have missed 10 good chances.

I've tried also changing my tactic completely but I still have to put up with many missed easy chances until Lennon comes in and scores with a misplaced cross. We win 1-0 but it should have been closer to 10-0.

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Also, the 2D pitch is only a graphical representation of the match. In the screenshot about Saivet above, you can't see exactly how close he is to the post, or how far away he is - he might not have been able to squeeze it in.

It's tough to get precise positioning images using the pitch - it's only meant to be a rough graphical representation of the match.

Also, you don't know say what the players confidence, morale, selfishness rating was, or whether he thought he could reach a player in a better position, his decision making skills are.

Things aren't often as clear as black and white.

Also, I repeat, there cannot be a problem with the game unless the majority experience it. At the moment, there are some people experiencing problems, but not all. The "problem people" still appear to be in the minority so logical reasoning says that they are doing something to promote this "problem".

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

Also, the 2D pitch is only a graphical representation of the match. In the screenshot about Saivet above, you can't see exactly how close he is to the post, or how far away he is - he might not have been able to squeeze it in.

It's tough to get precise positioning images using the pitch - it's only meant to be a rough graphical representation of the match.

Also, you don't know say what the players confidence, morale, selfishness rating was, or whether he thought he could reach a player in a better position, his decision making skills are.

Things aren't often as clear as black and white.

Also, I repeat, there cannot be a problem with the game unless the majority experience it. At the moment, there are some people experiencing problems, but not all. The "problem people" still appear to be in the minority so logical reasoning says that they are doing something to promote this "problem". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I was hoping it was an easier chance but Giovinco had a chance before it rebounded to Saivet and that was pretty easy as well.

The whole teams morale is superb except for O'shea and Tevez who weren't playing.

Overall, there were 4 shots in that move, 2 to strikers and the defender finally scored. Can you imaging how unhappy I would have been if that wasn't a goal. Everybody except Richards hit it straight at the goalkeeper and Rooney is a world class player. He had 7 shots with 5 on target and he scored from his hardest chance!

It is happening to a lot of people, I know it happened to me in 07 and I never said it on the forums, I am sure there are many others who are not posing. Also, it has happened to me in most of my games, strikers missing easy chances has nothing to do with tactics.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Duarte:

Just look at that:

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ridiculousby4.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's nothing wrong with that! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, thats cuz i cant record a video of the 7 shots on goal. Aguero was ALONE with the keeper 6 times (like 3 or 2 of them were out, not on the goal), just him and the keeper, Anderson (who was scoring great goals with long shots) sent a strong banana shot to the angle and the keeper did an impossible save, Ronaldo was alone after a corner, hit hard to the keepers hand.

And Aston Villa had 2 chances, and scored in one of them. I got Akinfeev as goalkeeper, and he is fabulous.

Its SO FRUSTATING.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Duarte:

Just look at that:

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ridiculousby4.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's nothing wrong with that! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats cuz i cant record a video with the misses.

Aguero was alone 6 or 7 times with the keeper... lost all shots ridiculously. Ronaldo where alone, unmarked, in front of the goal, after a corner and shot a real strong shot, but the keeper got it. Even if it was to the keeper's hand, he wouldnt get it. He was in the box already.

And Anderson, who was scoring great goals with long shots before the patch, tried a strong banana shot, but the keeper made an impossible save.

No fun. Frustrating.

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But taking Saviet's position in that screenshot, if he isn't left footed, it might have tricky to squeeze the ball in, and players often rush a pass in the pressure-filled last third of the pitch.

Also, creating good chances has got everything to do with tactics. The pitch may not graphically represent perfectly how close the defenders are to your striker, so he may feel under pressure, and take a snapshot.

He may know that an opposition defender is faster than him, so may shoot from long distances when he possibly could have carried on and got closer.

He may have missed a few one-on-ones in the match so it's easy for him to miss a few more.

There just so many variables, it's impossible to say it's a bug.

The key is to create a good tactic that creates good chances for your strikers, and then combine that with a positive teamtalk, picking players with good morale, and players that can play in a way that hurts the opposition, and then eventually, your team will pick up a lot more wins than losses.

Looking at the Shots on Target v. Goals ratio for your team and the AI team isn't very useful, because if you have 20 Shots on Target, but only 1 goal, then it could be because 19 were from long distance.

It's simply too variable for anyone to say definitively rather it's a bug or not, but as there is only a few (in comparison to the total number of players) experiencing this problem to such an extent, it would imply that some people have managed to get it right and avoid this problem.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Duarte:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Duarte:

Just look at that:

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ridiculousby4.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's nothing wrong with that! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats cuz i cant record a video with the misses.

Aguero was alone 6 or 7 times with the keeper... lost all shots ridiculously. Ronaldo where alone, unmarked, in front of the goal, after a corner and shot a real strong shot, but the keeper got it. Even if it was to the keeper's hand, he wouldnt get it. He was in the box already.

And Anderson, who was scoring great goals with long shots before the patch, tried a strong banana shot, but the keeper made an impossible save.

No fun. Frustrating. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK. Come back and post again when it happens in EVERY SINGLE match. You can't moan when it happens in just 1 match. Frustrating matches happen all the time - see Man Utd v. Bolton today!

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Beneath the people complaining because they lost a game against the run of play I honestly believe there is a genuine issue with the shots/goals ratio that some people are getting.

It doesn't help the creditability of the argument that people keep posting screenshots which don't show anything other than losing a game.

I've got 3/4 season stats recorded so far on a spreadsheet, just finished the season. I'll continue into next season and keep recording them but there isn't really any way to quantify what type of chances are being missed.

It will be interesting to see what happens with me next season. I have just won the PL with a very average team. I expect my team to be much better next season so i'll see what happens when I get some better players in.

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Originally posted by DamianY2J:

The key is to create a good tactic that creates good chances for your strikers, and then combine that with a positive teamtalk, picking players with good morale, and players that can play in a way that hurts the opposition, and then eventually, your team will pick up a lot more wins than losses.QUOTE]

That's the trouble, my tacic is creating good chances, very good ones in fact.

The majority of my shots come from inside the box and a lot are one on ones with the keeper. Morale is superb and always give positive team talks.

sorry guys but before it could have been put down to poor tactic where players take too many long shots but not this time.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Duarte:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Duarte:

Just look at that:

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ridiculousby4.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's nothing wrong with that! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damian, since i installed the patch, it happnes EVERY SINGLE MATCH. I lost to valencia at the pernalties, the game was 1x1 and i had about 32 shots on goal. All my midfielders and defenders were rated 8, but my strikers were 6.

And then, another game, another game, another game...

When i installed the patch, i started a game with Barcelona. same thing, loosing goals all the time. And there's no excuses, Henry is class, and so is Messi and Ronaldinho.

Thats cuz i cant record a video with the misses.

Aguero was alone 6 or 7 times with the keeper... lost all shots ridiculously. Ronaldo where alone, unmarked, in front of the goal, after a corner and shot a real strong shot, but the keeper got it. Even if it was to the keeper's hand, he wouldnt get it. He was in the box already.

And Anderson, who was scoring great goals with long shots before the patch, tried a strong banana shot, but the keeper made an impossible save.

No fun. Frustrating. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK. Come back and post again when it happens in EVERY SINGLE match. You can't moan when it happens in just 1 match. Frustrating matches happen all the time - see Man Utd v. Bolton today! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Duarte:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Duarte:

Just look at that:

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ridiculousby4.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's nothing wrong with that! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats cuz i cant record a video with the misses.

Aguero was alone 6 or 7 times with the keeper... lost all shots ridiculously. Ronaldo where alone, unmarked, in front of the goal, after a corner and shot a real strong shot, but the keeper got it. Even if it was to the keeper's hand, he wouldnt get it. He was in the box already.

And Anderson, who was scoring great goals with long shots before the patch, tried a strong banana shot, but the keeper made an impossible save.

No fun. Frustrating. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK. Come back and post again when it happens in EVERY SINGLE match. You can't moan when it happens in just 1 match. Frustrating matches happen all the time - see Man Utd v. Bolton today! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damian, since i installed the patch, it happnes EVERY SINGLE MATCH. I lost to valencia at the pernalties, the game was 1x1 and i had about 32 shots on goal. All my midfielders and defenders were rated 8, but my strikers were 6.

And then, another game, another game, another game...

When i installed the patch, i started a game with Barcelona. same thing, loosing goals all the time. And there's no excuses, Henry is class, and so is Messi and Ronaldinho.

*ps: sorry about the double post, i made a mistake before, and i hate the fact i cant edit my own posts.

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I am in complete agreement with those about the shots to goal ratio problem as it is very obvious. Last night I was bored of watching my Inter Milan team squander chance after chance inside the penalty area, shooting straight to the goalkeeper, miss incredibly easy rebounds and have no idea how to play a corner. The thing is with the very few chances the AI has, its success rate at taking a shot on goal & scoring is much higher than any human team. This issue has to be sorted by balancing things out otherwise it will always be the AI that will have the upper hand no matter if you have the best players or really good tactics. I have used different formations, changed training routines, altered players setting as in creative freedom + attacking mentality etc... and it makes no difference whatsoever, still the same thing over and over. The way things carry on with my team mostly drawing matches and missing way too many chances I will be out of a job at the end of the season. So please SI acknowledge this problem and try to rectify it. I know it is not easy just solving one bug, as three more will come along without properly programming it but this is making the game way too unplayable.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">OK. Come back and post again when it happens in EVERY SINGLE match. You can't moan when it happens in just 1 match. Frustrating matches happen all the time - see Man Utd v. Bolton today! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man Utd only had 1 shot on target today, as did Bolton.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Duarte:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Duarte:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daniel Duarte:

Just look at that:

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ridiculousby4.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's nothing wrong with that! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats cuz i cant record a video with the misses.

Aguero was alone 6 or 7 times with the keeper... lost all shots ridiculously. Ronaldo where alone, unmarked, in front of the goal, after a corner and shot a real strong shot, but the keeper got it. Even if it was to the keeper's hand, he wouldnt get it. He was in the box already.

And Anderson, who was scoring great goals with long shots before the patch, tried a strong banana shot, but the keeper made an impossible save.

No fun. Frustrating. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK. Come back and post again when it happens in EVERY SINGLE match. You can't moan when it happens in just 1 match. Frustrating matches happen all the time - see Man Utd v. Bolton today! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damian, since i installed the patch, it happnes EVERY SINGLE MATCH. I lost to valencia at the pernalties, the game was 1x1 and i had about 32 shots on goal. All my midfielders and defenders were rated 8, but my strikers were 6.

And then, another game, another game, another game...

When i installed the patch, i started a game with Barcelona. same thing, loosing goals all the time. And there's no excuses, Henry is class, and so is Messi and Ronaldinho.

*ps: sorry about the double post, i made a mistake before, and i hate the fact i cant edit my own posts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, what we need is a collection of screenshots which together, might highlight a problem. At the moment, all I have to go on is people's opinions, and there's as many saying everything's fine as there is saying there's a problem.

If it genuinely is happening EVERY SINGLE GAME, then please post some screenshots (say 6), which clearly show the date of the game and the basic stats (such as On Target, Goals Scored, etc), so we can see what a common pattern is emerging in EVERY SINGLE and CONSECUTIVE games.

Then, if you could write next to each screenshot how many of the shots on target were from the 12 yard box.

Is that something you can do, as it might help to highlight the problem in a better way than anyone else has done so far.

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The SI fanboys are as much of a joke as SI itself.

'It's your tactic' Yay what's wrong with our tactic? Contra to all those SI fanboys comment, our tactic should actually be consider as more than good enough tactics. A tactics which let us create so many chances in most matches which in turn let us see this ridiculous bug of strikers missing easy chances, if not passing it straight into the keepers arm with no placing or power.

Dissing our problem and said go compile a 2 season complete stats on shot taken, on target, off target, from where bla bla was just you lot taking the easy way out because no one in their sane mind would do that to convince brainwash fools like you. I wonder if the vast majority of these guys are just SI coders making a ordinary account to back themselves up when things go wrong and post threads like 'the official SI appreciation thread'. The foolishness of you fanboys make me cringe.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

But taking Saviet's position in that screenshot, if he isn't left footed, it might have tricky to squeeze the ball in, and players often rush a pass in the pressure-filled last third of the pitch.

Also, creating good chances has got everything to do with tactics. The pitch may not graphically represent perfectly how close the defenders are to your striker, so he may feel under pressure, and take a snapshot.

He may know that an opposition defender is faster than him, so may shoot from long distances when he possibly could have carried on and got closer.

He may have missed a few one-on-ones in the match so it's easy for him to miss a few more.

There just so many variables, it's impossible to say it's a bug.

The key is to create a good tactic that creates good chances for your strikers, and then combine that with a positive teamtalk, picking players with good morale, and players that can play in a way that hurts the opposition, and then eventually, your team will pick up a lot more wins than losses.

Looking at the Shots on Target v. Goals ratio for your team and the AI team isn't very useful, because if you have 20 Shots on Target, but only 1 goal, then it could be because 19 were from long distance.

It's simply too variable for anyone to say definitively rather it's a bug or not, but as there is only a few (in comparison to the total number of players) experiencing this problem to such an extent, it would imply that some people have managed to get it right and avoid this problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Firstly your implication that any player who experience's this "bug/problem" would come online and report said problem is erroneous

Secondly, players may be experiencing said "bug/problem" and yet are still winning games so may not see it as a "bug/problem" and therefore refrain from reporting/complaining

Thirdly players may be experiencing this issue and not even realizing it, some people don't watch the 2D engine, some don't look at the match stats (I didn't until recently)

Fourthly the argument that the problem is a tactical one is not wholly reasonable, what tactic changes the behavior of a striker when he is one on one with a goalkeeper, surely this is an algorithm based on attributes?

In the end perhaps the game is veering into too much tactical depth and for some this is more enjoyable, and for others less so, perhaps what we are witnessing is the start of a split in the FM community!, I for one will be looking for a download of the beta patch, missed penalty's and all, because it was more FUN, is that not what a game is about, FUN?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tecni:

The SI fanboys are as much of a joke as SI itself.

'It's your tactic' Yay what's wrong with our tactic? Contra to all those SI fanboys comment, our tactic should actually be consider as more than good enough tactics. A tactics which let us create so many chances in most matches which in turn let us see this ridiculous bug of strikers missing easy chances, if not passing it straight into the keepers arm with no placing or power.

Dissing our problem and said go compile a 2 season complete stats on shot taken, on target, off target, from where bla bla was just you lot taking the easy way out because no one in their sane mind would do that to convince brainwash fools like you. I wonder if the vast majority of these guys are just SI coders making a ordinary account to back themselves up when things go wrong and post threads like 'the official SI appreciation thread'. The foolishness of you fanboys make me cringe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If people aren't prepared to substantiate their claims of a problem, then how do you expect SI to recognise it and fix it?

If you like think SI will read a thread where some people say "problem" and others give possible reasons for the problems, and decide to fix something that may or may not exist, then you're wrong.

SI need people to provide them with some numbers and something to go on, otherwise how can they fix it?

For all those complaining, go and take some screenshots from your saved games, and try and provide all the information possible (see one of my posts above for relevant information that would help), and then SI might be in a position to reply to you.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nukehim47:

I have never seen the match engine so bad icon_frown.gif

I actually thought the game was pretty good with the beta patch but as what normally happens, new problems are created.

It is very common for me to be having 30 shots per game (which in itself is unrealistic) and more than half on target. Despite all these shots I am only wining by the odd goal which is ridicolous.

Don't tell me it's my tactics because it was working fine in the beta patch.

Don't tell me it's because my team are taking long shots from midfield because most the shots are in fact one on ones with the keeper.

Please can somebody explain why it seems that no conventional goals are scored after the patch!!?? My strikers have about 10 shots each per game (Berbatov, Gyan, Aguero, Huntelaar) and they are pretty easy chances but I am lucky if they put one of them in.

The trouble is the only goals that go in since the patch are complete flukes, it's actually almost impossible to score normal goals.

I really can't beleive how bad it has become, I think I will go back to tbe beta patch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am averaging 30 Shots (per game) on goal with Man Utd and scored 10 goals in 6 league games. As you say not very realistic. Anyhow until this has been fixed i am going back to FM 2007.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pipo2525:

I am averaging 30 Shots (per game) on goal with Man Utd and scored 10 goals in 6 league games. As you say not very realistic. Anyhow until this has been fixed i am going back to FM 2007. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might as well wait until the automatic 'win next match' button has been implemented as well.

10 matches and you give up?

\o/

Talk about perseverance and endurance.

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Again, you don't mention where the shots are coming from. You can't just look at the stats at the end of a game and not put them into context.

Also, I can't reply with a proper counter-argument until someone presents me with some facts and stats to make an argument in the first place.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UELLfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pipo2525:

I am averaging 30 Shots (per game) on goal with Man Utd and scored 10 goals in 6 league games. As you say not very realistic. Anyhow until this has been fixed i am going back to FM 2007. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might as well wait until the automatic 'win next match' button has been implemented as well.

10 matches and you give up?

\o/

Talk about perseverance and endurance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm actually unbeaten!!! It' the 30 shots per game that has me stearing at the screen in disbelief.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tecni:

The SI fanboys are as much of a joke as SI itself.

'It's your tactic' Yay what's wrong with our tactic? Contra to all those SI fanboys comment, our tactic should actually be consider as more than good enough tactics. A tactics which let us create so many chances in most matches which in turn let us see this ridiculous bug of strikers missing easy chances, if not passing it straight into the keepers arm with no placing or power.

Dissing our problem and said go compile a 2 season complete stats on shot taken, on target, off target, from where bla bla was just you lot taking the easy way out because no one in their sane mind would do that to convince brainwash fools like you. I wonder if the vast majority of these guys are just SI coders making a ordinary account to back themselves up when things go wrong and post threads like 'the official SI appreciation thread'. The foolishness of you fanboys make me cringe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If people aren't prepared to substantiate their claims of a problem, then how do you expect SI to recognise it and fix it?

If you like think SI will read a thread where some people say "problem" and others give possible reasons for the problems, and decide to fix something that may or may not exist, then you're wrong.

SI need people to provide them with some numbers and something to go on, otherwise how can they fix it?

For all those complaining, go and take some screenshots from your saved games, and try and provide all the information possible (see one of my posts above for relevant information that would help), and then SI might be in a position to reply to you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch the games. Just watch the matches and forget about all the stats for a moment. We would still be incensed even if we only had 5 shots and all are off target throughout the whole match, but all 5 are real chances, clean through on goal, one-on-one. The players pass it straight to the opposition keeper's arm gently. And that is what is happening, our tactic is good, there's nothing wrong with a tactic that creates that much chances for you. It's the finishing part, SI have somewhere screw this part up like they have with the closing down in the full unpatch game.

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