Patch 8.0.1. Shots to Goal Ratio not fixed - SHOCKING!! SI Please answer - believe to be related to Closing down and Long shots bug

[T-Bag]

I have been through my last 11 COMPETITIVE matches and here are some stats. I could go back even more to get a better data set to be perfectly honestly the rest of the results are very similar so I don't think it will skew the date much at all tbh.

My Stats

63% of all shots on goal are on target - 140 shots, 88 on target.

A goal results from 14% of my shots - 20 goals from a total of 140 shots.

A goal results from 22% of my shots which are on target. 88 shots out of a total of 140.

AI Stats

59% of all shots are on target - A total of 142 shots, 82 of which were on target.

A goal resulted from 6% of all shots on goal - 9 goals from a total of 142 shots

A goal resulted from 10% of all shots on target. 9 goals from 84 shots on target.

Other notes - My GK is on fire, i've brought him through the youth ranks and he has won youth awards etc.

My strikers are a 32 year old Anelka, 31 year old Smith, and Bojinov. None of these are in the world class category. I see no problem at all, if anything, look at the stats, the bias is by far in my favour.

[GoGa70]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The match engine needs tweaking so that it's not so simple to devise a tactic that creates ridiculous amounts of easy chances </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The biggest problem is that teams at any level seem to play exactly the same - quick accurate passing combined with dribbling and dummy wingbacks. That needs fixing.

[T-Bag]

Actually to consider this a bit more, I think it may be something else.

Is everyone who is getting this playing as a big team or have really great players ?

I beleive there is a MASSIVE over bias to smaller clubs on FM and has been since the last version. My team is average at best yet i'm sitting top of the league, I win games I shouldn't and only have a couple of good players.

BUT EVERY (and I mean every, I do the stats) time I play bottom of the league or a lower league team I lose. EVERY SINGLE time. Funnily enough I dominate the game and they win in much the way other people are describing in this thread.

I reckon it's the same issue.

[bRAzIL]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">No but I expect after creating 30 chances that my players consisting of Rooney, Pato, Podolski, Fernandez and Anderson would at least put away 2 of those chances and win teams that create 4 chances. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL - Telling Rooney not to take long shots means jack. Imagine that, Rooney seeing a opportunity for a shot and then thinking "hang on, manager says not to"

His flair, creativity & decisions would override that.

[ifllorescu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T-Bag:

Actually to consider this a bit more, I think it may be something else.

Is everyone who is getting this playing as a big team or have really great players ?

I beleive there is a MASSIVE over bias to smaller clubs on FM and has been since the last version. My team is average at best yet i'm sitting top of the league, I win games I shouldn't and only have a couple of good players.

BUT EVERY (and I mean every, I do the stats) time I play bottom of the league or a lower league team I lose. EVERY SINGLE time. Funnily enough I dominate the game and they win in much the way other people are describing in this thread.

I reckon it's the same issue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have this too. I think it has something to do with the pre-match odds stuff. The AI immediately changes its regular tactic somehow if it is an underdog in the game.

And to make a supposition probably way far-fetched: I know the game is run before you even start playing, what you see is actually the film of the match. Then every time the AI or you make a change in tactics the game is recalculated and play is resumed (that is why you wait when it says making changes). Is it possible that the algorithm goes through the game sees an amazing amounts of goals and decides to cut many of them to keep the scoreline "more realistic". That would explain the weird shot/goal ratio.

So perhaps making changes a lot during the game will confuse the AI.

This is just a speculation, I have no idea how they codded the match engine. I apologize in advance should my post annoys anyone.

[sirdez24]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tubbycrabs:

The problem affects both the user and AI controlled teams. If you watch any top AI teams playing against a much worse team, you'll notice that their forwards miss the same kind of chances that the user forwards do.

There's no bias towards the AI at all, just against teams that are creating crazy amounts of chances.

This is the problem.

Top quality players clean through on goal, with time and space, do NOT consistently miss multiple chances in matches. Maybe 1 match in 15, yes, but not every game they play in.

Who'd want a player in their team up front who keeps missing 5 clear cut chances a match? They wouldn't last long at any club.

The match engine needs tweaking so that it's not so simple to devise a tactic that creates ridiculous amounts of easy chances. If this doesn't happen, then the game is going to continue showing players missing these easy chances so the scores can be kept at a reasonable level. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this is bang on. SI have three options, really:

1) Create too many good/clear chances, people complain scores are too high

2) Don't create too many good/clear chances, people complain it's too hard to find a winning tactic.

3) Miss too many good/clear chances, which is the current problem.

My tactic creates a high number of excellent chances, mostly one on ones, but I find myself needing 10-15 of these to score. I miss a lot of sitters and scuff a lot of chances. Opposition keepers make a lot of saves, particularly from close range. I often shoot early when through on goal, and it's generally tipped over or goes wide. Thing is, if I scored even half of clear opportunities on goal, I'd be scoring 7-8 goals a game. So the game compensates.

It's a bit like goals from corners. Out of the box, everything was disallowed. On the Beta, I found a high number of goals being scored. In 30 games since installing the proper patch, I haven't even gone close to scoring from a corner, even illegally. The most common occurrence is the guy at the near post heading wide, followed by "How did he miss that??" or something along those lines.

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

I thought the 8.0.1 patch would fix the closing down and long shots bug by now. But no it hasn't. Long shots seems to have been toned down a little, closing down seems to sometimes work sometimes doesn't.

Before the 8.0.1 patch

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5211026...342078263#9342078263

I had poor shots to goals ration

After the patch

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3343/asadadadqs4.jpg

Still the same! Nothing has changed.

Basically this closing down and long shot bug is what is causing everyone to have 20 shots on goal but only resulting in 1 or 2 goals scored. Fair enough only 2% of the shots go in. But if the opposition win as a result of 3 - 4 shots where you had 20 thats unfair and unrealistic.

There is a game in there where Ipswich had 5 shots but NO/NOTHING/ZERO shots had hit the target AND THEY STILL SCORED!?!??! That game cost me 2 points.

Since the patch I lost in the champions league, FA cup final and my run of form in the league.

There are a load of people complaing about the number of shots per goals since the installing the patch. So its not just me

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/6542031363

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/2542009263/p/7

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076743/m/7192061363

This thread documents some problems.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076743/m/6682090363

I believe the long shot and closing bug has not been toned down enough or at all. This is why players are shooting outside of box when told not to and missiing targets therefore resulting in 20 shots on goal.

And before you tell me to upload my games to the bugs forum I HAVE SINCE OCTOBER

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...062040953#9062040953 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some of the links provided to other threads such as Nepethenz that show easy chances ar not really easy chances. It all comes down to one on one situations, the goalkeeper closes the angle down making it harder for goals. I still believe there needs to be a variation in these chances, such as players running around keeper, chipin keeper, or nutmeging keepers. Most times players go for the harder option of simply trying to slot it past keeper.

[ljdzsgffk]

I can't be bothered to look, so can anyone tell me if SI have realised that there are way too many shots post-patch?

[Crilly]

This is annoying.

[sirdez24]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crilly:

This is annoying. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm hovering near the relegation zone despite dominating teams and creating numerous good chances. Nothing will go in.

[ljdzsgffk]

Admit it SI - in terms of shots, you have failed.

In other areas you have done your job and sometimes exceeded it.

[earmack]

Look naysayers, I've had countless instances where my best strikers have failed to achieve 1/5 conversion rate, just because you haven't doesn't mean its not true. Like a lot of the SI 'fanclub' point out that they have no trouble with a particular problem we are pointing out we DO have a problem with no obvious solution.

Also In FM05 and 07 i used to count 'lucky' results for and against me, my criteria for both were different:

Lucky for me=a game that was fairly equal that i didn't lose(I **** you not).

Lucky against me=I had twice as many chances as the opposition when they won.

The numbers never evened out even though the criteria was so biased, basically lucky results for me per season = 3<, lucky results against=8>.

The 'funny' thing is this was a fairly consistent over 2 saves in two 'different' games with two different teams over 20 seasons in each game. I had success with both teams but the plain truth was I needed more chances to score than the opposition consistently.

Maybe this was because of 'tactics' but when the tactics you can employ are so obtuse as to ostensibly 'work' (you know like many have said how can it be my tactics when I'm dominating?)how in the name of Jesus are we meant to fix them? Its counter-intuitive and thus unfriendly.

You can call me a liar if you want but ask yourself why would I lie about this? I have no vested interest in SI positive or negative. Also the OP has posted what 50 games where this is seen and yet you still say 'no you just suck'.

[Ackter]

To the 1 upfron convo earlier on in this thread - the stats I posted at the begin are using a 1 up front formation.

[Wakers]

The main thing that we need to think about here is that there are several problems leading to this one issue, and it can't just be pinned down onto one part of the game.

Firstly, there is re-ranking - which i feel is the worst culprit here, as it is in now way realistic.. Part way through a season, your team can be playing fantastic, over achieving, strikers scoring for fun, defenders solid. Then suddenly, for no reason whatsoever your goalkeepers are blindfolded, your defenders have their shoelaces tied together and all of your strikers have turned into a poor impression of Marlon Harewood. This doesn't happen in real life - first of all, there is no mystical 're ranking' in real life. Arsenal had a better start to the season than was expected, teams adjusted to suit, but it doesn't turn them into muppets.

Secondly, the effect that it has on the match engine is the most irritating thing - IF it was realistic, then it would make your tactics noticeable less effective - i.e, you would find that you have less shots than your opponent, less possession. This would be much less annoying than simply making opposition goalkeepers become Beefed up Peter Schmeichels even if they play for Grimsby Town, but more importantly, it would let the player know that his tactic needs to be changed - whereas allowing a player to still have 22 shots on target and lose to the opponents single, deflected goal every game just frustrates everyone.

Then there are the problems caused by bias - lets look at real life. Manchester Utd or Arsenal play against a smaller team, like Sunderland or Reading. Reading play 11 men behind the ball, now this causes two things to happen: a) Manchester can't fashion 30 shots a game because there's not enough space or time on the ball to make all those shots and: b) Playing against a team with 11 men behind the ball does not suddenly mean that Rooney, Saha and Tevez will be unable to finish from 3 yards out, as is the current case in FM.

The next major problem with the match engine is the number of times that the opposition manager will change formation. In real life, Mourinhio changed his team's formation 3 times during one game, and it was practically unheard of. In FM, AI teams change formation 2/3 times Every game - blatently unrealistic and something that is highly unfair on the player.

Finally, player attributes should be more important. There is no point having this huge database full of carefully researched stats if they are going to mean nothing when the AI doesn't want you to win anymore. If a player has 15 finishing and composure or above, he should not suddenly go from scoring 1 every 2 games to missing 4 one and one's every game.

It's my opinion that the game is heading too far away from simulation in its aim to be challenging - they need to focus more on simulation for the next release instead of trying to make sure that no one can dominate with the same tactic every season. Again, my case in point is Arsenal - they've played the same way ten years now, and they've always been one of the best teams in the league, bar last season. In FM if you do well in the first season, then keep the same tactic after that it all goes miserably wrong, whether you have the same good squad or not - you can win the league with Man Utd in the first season but if you keep the same overall tactic its guaranteed that you will be mid table or worse half way thru the second season.

I'm not overly interested in playing FM08, as its clear SI don't think there's a problem, which is sad..the vision of the game is heading too far away from simulation.

I've heard that FMLive has a more basic approach to tactics, and maybe thats the way to go from here on.

[Ackter]

Re-ranking doesn't work like that.

[Ackter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The next major problem with the match engine is the number of times that the opposition manager will change formation. In real life, Mourinhio changed his team's formation 3 times during one game, and it was practically unheard of. In FM, AI teams change formation 2/3 times Every game - blatently unrealistic and something that is highly unfair on the player. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Changing from 442 to 442 attacking is considered a tactical change in game - and that's something that happens several times in every single real live match.

[Wakers]

Thats not what i meant - changing from 4-4-2 to 4-2-4 and then to 4-5-1 for 5 minutes and then back to 4-4-2 is what i mean. Secondly, how does re-ranking work then? Because it seems perfectly easy to tell when you have been re-ranked.

[Ackter]

Re-ranking happens on a constant basis, the way the AI sees you changes depending on how you play. There's no set times like you've mentioned.

The Christmas dip in form is usually caused by things like weather, poor pre-season training etc.

Other times during the season it's down to AI managers becoming more defensive because of how much of a threat they see you.

[SmurfDude]

Despite countless threads on this I still haven't seen anyone from SI comment on it. I'd be very interested to hear SI's view on this.

[Ackter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SmurfDude:

Despite countless threads on this I still haven't seen anyone from SI comment on it. I'd be very interested to hear SI's view on this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5211026...922091363#8922091363

[ezamudin]

I think the problem right now is that the ME cant cope with over attacking formation and to keep compromising it by having even world class strikers to missed sitters.

The problem became very clear to me when I'm back to the basic formation lay out WWFan excellent Tactical Design theory. With the control based formation, both my strikers (I'm playing Arsenal btw) are missing buttload of chances even tho I'm controlling the game. When i switched to the base Counter based formation, the situation is totally reversed.

Thus I believe now, SI need to find a good middle point because the current way of doing it, (by denying strikers to convert chances from an easy sitter) is far from favourable.

[DJ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

Devils advocate here- I suggest that counter attacking, backs to the wall football is far to effective.

Thats how Ive played and I my goals scored/conceded ration is 2.7 to 0.6.

Every season I have been rated as a relegation candidate as well- I appreciate that tactics are important but do feel that player ability is far too secondary to the tactical side.

Not that I want it to swing entirely towards the players ability but imo a middle ground needs to be found. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

May I suggest that this is pretty much realistic? I am a fan of Oranje. Against Luxemburg, we played 4-2-4, at times 3-3-4. We won by a whopping 1-0, at home, with an odd 30 shots against 2 and if we didn't have holy Edwin van der Sar on goal Luxemburg would have scored from their only two chances in the 90th minute, one-on-one with the goalie.

Quick, attacking football, with world class strikers (Kuijt, RvN) fed by world class wingers (the likes of Babel) against a team that consists of two professional players and 9 amateurs. 1-0.

Defensive tactics, whether we like it or not are very succesful these days. Heck, you can win the Euro Championships by defending.

The trick, as others have suggested, is to balance your attacking intentions. I think Wenger is showing is how it's done, at the moment: when you have great players at your disposal, keep on passing until you maximize your chance. It's no good shooting from all angles.

If you have a crap team with crap players, you just have to defend, defend, defend and hope that your crap forward doesn't miss that one chance per game, or hope to get something from a set piece.

I firmly believe that setting your tactics according to your players' abilities makes all the difference, as well as, and that's probably even more important, not to hesitate changing course mid-game.

Example: Bayern München. Frank Ribéry. His standard mode is to get the ball into his feet, then dribble past three opponents before firing it to Toni who then has ample opportunity to p|ss it into the net (which has worked great for them so far this season).

Some opponents manage to take that sting out of Bayerns game by putting a good tackler in Ribérys face, along with someone to back that tackler up in case the first defender is outdribbled. This reduces Ribérys effectiveness greatly. You often see him change his tune after a while: instead of dribbling, he starts passing the ball backwards/sideways for the 1-2 or he starts firing the ball into the 16 at the first opportunity.

IRL, he's intelligent enough to see when he doesn't get through with dribbling and changes his mode of play all by himself.

In FM, you have to tell him that! I consider that a good thing. As the news item goes: 'we may not win, but I'll be happy if the players follow their instructions'. Indeed. I'd rather lose with my players doing as I tell them than lose because they act like a bunch of donkeys.

I, like other posters, think that people who expect to win immediately, with whatever team, underestimate the effect of tactics and tweaking, as well as forgetting about all the other possible influences in the game on the outcome of matches. This is a simulation. It doesn't have an 'auto-win' mode. It's up to you to come up with the winning tricks.

Keep it real: would you, IRL, be able to guide ManU to a top 4 spot? Would you feck. It takes a SAF, Wenger, Mourinho, etc, to get the maximum out of a team.

[ATW]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Basically this closing down and long shot bug is what is causing everyone to have 20 shots on goal but only resulting in 1 or 2 goals scored. Fair enough only 2% of the shots go in. But if the opposition win as a result of 3 - 4 shots where you had 20 thats unfair and unrealistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell that to a Motherwell fan, in fact no need to, as I can tell you it is very realistic!

[tecni]

No matter what the blind SI fans said, the problem is so obviously and in your face. Forget all the stats, watch the actually games. The number of easy chances missed are shocking. EVERY SINGLE TIME the striker get clean through on goal but is on the side of the keeper with the far post wide open HE ****ING PASS IT STRAIGHT AT THE KEEPER.

This game is becoming a plain joke now, with pathetic excuses like your tempo and time wasting is causing your strikers to miss chances that are easier to score than miss.

SI, your attempt at making this game more tactic orientated is a big ****ing failure.

[Ackter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">HE ****ING PASS IT STRAIGHT AT THE KEEPER. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This actually is a problem.

There needs to be a much wider variety of misses from one-on-one situations. The number of goals scored, on average, is pretty much correct. However, the manner of these misses are not.

There needs to be a lot more examples of shots being hit wide, hit against the post, hit to the side of the keepers but being saved etc.

[UELLfan]

Last 15 matches: Playing a 4-3-3 with the AML getting centered and wide AMR who's in charge of free kicks and penalties. Lone striker is in charge of wearing down the oposition. Speedy sub striker gets on when oposition centerbacks are tired.

If we're 2 up by HT we'll probably revert to a counter 5-3-2.

If we're 1 up in the last 15 minutes we'll most sure revert to a 5-4-1.

Bear in mind you should add the odd DMC, DR and DL shots and the centerbacks shots for corners, but I left them out for this.

Lastly, let me add we're the new kid in town (just promoted), so we're playing a slightly more defensive version of last season's tactic.

Av Shots/ Av Shots on Goal by selected players

8.26/4.5

Shots/On Goal

124/68 -> 55%

Goals/Shots on Goal

21/68 -> 31%

Lone Striker shots on Goal/ Goals

20/3 -> 15%

Sub striker shots on Goal/Goals

15/8 -> 53%

AMR shots on Goal/ Goals

18/7 -> 39%

AML shots on Goal/ Goals

5/1 -> 20%

MRC shots on goal/ goals

3/0 -> 0%

MLC shots on goal/ Goals

7/2 -> 28%

[UELLfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">HE ****ING PASS IT STRAIGHT AT THE KEEPER. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I must say I've tried lowering my strikers' creative freedom to normal (10) and this gets a bit better.

Speedy sub striker sometimes doesn't rush his shot and in rare occasions even dribbles (opens a bit wide) before making the shot.

Lone striker doesn't though

[Hedgren]

I believe that SI has constructed the game in a way that there will be a lot of highlights during gameplay to keep the gamer from getting bored. Still they have fixed so there will be no 50% goals/shots on target to keep the game realistic. But I do agree that it really looks odd when you have 30 shots and AI 5 shots and the result is 1-1.

[tecni]

Frankly how did this escape the attention of SI when coming out with the patch? This surely should be pretty high on their priority list.

The change list in the patch thread had improve finishing for bread and butter chances, but this clearly is not the case. The only kind of goals I can score now is from set pieces and punt the ball into the area from wide and hope for the best. My midfielders would probably have 20plus assists each season if the strikers can finish the chances that is put on the plate for them.

[daylight]

While I agree the 1 on 1 should maybe be looked at to include some lobs or players rounding the keeper more,But the shots on goal ratio is alot better I think alot of people that post that it is still terrible maybe have all there midfielders shooting from 30yards 15 times in a game,I have simply set my 2 centre midfielders to rarely shot from distance and in the games I have played since the patch my shots on goal have maybe went down by 40% but my shots on goal-goals scored looks alot more realistic with games like 15shots 8 on target 7 not and won the game 3-1,Maybe people should try this instead of whinning they are having 30 shots at goal etc etc without conceding that half of them shots come from a midfielder from 30+ yards out.

[tecni]

Can you read? A lot of peeps already has long shot on rarely. What else can you do when they still do it

[JasK]

Something isn't right.

I thought i started off ok with 2 wins (4-0 blackburn, 22shots, 13 on target) & (5-1 toulouse, 25shots, 16 on target)... ... so i read with amusement on this thread... but i was wrong.

The next 4 games isn't right.

(won 1-0 newcastle, 25shots, 10 on target, steve harper rating 8 and MOM)

(won 1-0 tottenham, 34shots, 16 on target, paul robinson rating 9 and MOM)

(won 2-1 toulouse, 22shots, 12 on target, sebastien soulier rating 8 and MOM)

(won 1-0 aston villa, 26shots, 12 on target, thomas sorensen rating 8 and MOM)

dominated games, way many shots, many on target, all opposition keepers get highest rating and all of them got MOM.

funny isn't it

[daylight]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tecni:

Can you read? A lot of peeps already has long shot on rarely. What else can you do when they still do it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry I can only answer through my experinces and since the patch and a little tinkering with my tactics it is alot better than pre-patch.

[DamianY2J]

You can give players instructions but they can override them, based on their decision making skills.

They also may not have scored for a few games, and are rushing their shots, causing them to miss more.

Your team could be under pressure from a relegation or title challenges coming into the last few months, or your team talk or media interaction could have added pressure, and with pressure, comes snap shots, missed chances, and indecision.

In real life, I have seen countless world class strikers miss a lot of one-on-ones in the same game. How many times do you hear commentators say "That goal he's just scored was harder than the miss he had earlier".

Sometimes, the easy chances are the toughest to take.

There are simply too many variables to take into consideration for people to come on here and definitely say it's a bug.

Also, if you compare the total number of people on this forum to the number of people complaining, they would appear to be in the minority. Therefore, it's not a definite problem with the game, because otherwise it'd be happening to everyone. Coding issues would affect every single gamer. The fact it's only happening to some people indicates it's a problem with the way they are playing the game.

I have had no problems like the ones being described.

Until someone produces a complete list of stats for 1-2 seasons, broken down by shots taken, shots missed target, shots on target, goals scored, who made the shot and where from, and the morale of that player, for between 5-10 different teams in different leagues, then we won't have anything concrete to base any arguments on.

Until that time, it remains opinion, and opinions will be argued with no end result.

As a result, it's a slightly pointless argument.

Post in the bugs forum, and then leave it - wait for SI to either fix any problems, or make the decision that there isn't any, and just get on with playing the game best you can.

[rebmalin]

There's no point complaining. SI just write it off every year as people complainging about "super goalie". They've never admitted it's a problem and they never will. Because goalkeepers getting man of the match only against your team is perfectly normal...

[tecni]

Got knock out of club world championship and Carling Cup quarter final in a week because of this ********. They just simply hold out for 0-0 than win easily on penalties, the user as usual still can't win a shootout even after the patch.

SI needs to sort this bloody mess out and get back to the drawing board and whoever code this game should be sack immediately.

[tecni]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

You can give players instructions but they can override them, based on their decision making skills.

They also may not have scored for a few games, and are rushing their shots, causing them to miss more.

Your team could be under pressure from a relegation or title challenges coming into the last few months, or your team talk or media interaction could have added pressure, and with pressure, comes snap shots, missed chances, and indecision.

In real life, I have seen countless world class strikers miss a lot of one-on-ones in the same game. How many times do you hear commentators say "That goal he's just scored was harder than the miss he had earlier".

Sometimes, the easy chances are the toughest to take.

There are simply too many variables to take into consideration for people to come on here and definitely say it's a bug.

Also, if you compare the total number of people on this forum to the number of people complaining, they would appear to be in the minority. Therefore, it's not a definite problem with the game, because otherwise it'd be happening to everyone. Coding issues would affect every single gamer. The fact it's only happening to some people indicates it's a problem with the way they are playing the game.

I have had no problems like the ones being described.

Until someone produces a complete list of stats for 1-2 seasons, broken down by shots taken, shots missed target, shots on target, goals scored, who made the shot and where from, and the morale of that player, for between 5-10 different teams in different leagues, then we won't have anything concrete to base any arguments on.

Until that time, it remains opinion, and opinions will be argued with no end result.

As a result, it's a slightly pointless argument.

Post in the bugs forum, and then leave it - wait for SI to either fix any problems, or make the decision that there isn't any, and just get on with playing the game best you can. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What. A. Rubbish. Post.

When things happen too often for you to take notice, you know something is wrong. Who the hell gonna is compile a complete stats to convince people like you who belong to the group 'Oh SI can do no wrong, it must be your tactic!'

[DamianY2J]

Because if they don't, then the fact will remain that any problems are happening to a minority.

If the code was wrong, the problem would appear in everyone's game. It's not. Therefore, the user is doing something to their game to make the problem appear. That's just logic.

[johnboy145]

I felt the same way for ages about the shot ratio but when you anaylsis the situation a vast majority of shots occur outside the box, and in reality less than half of these chances are converted.

[tecni]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

Because if they don't, then the fact will remain that any problems are happening to a minority.

If the code was wrong, the problem would appear in everyone's game. It's not. Therefore, the user is doing something to their game to make the problem appear. That's just logic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Than perhaps the majority of you tactical genius could tell us how do you tackle each game so that your striker can actually finish properly?

[gazzamark]

My Newcastle team has no probs scoring, Aguero finished last season with 32 league goals. Sounds like people are griping just cos their tactics or training aren't right.

[Tom L]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tecni:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DamianY2J:

Because if they don't, then the fact will remain that any problems are happening to a minority.

If the code was wrong, the problem would appear in everyone's game. It's not. Therefore, the user is doing something to their game to make the problem appear. That's just logic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Than perhaps the majority of you tactical genius could tell us how do you tackle each game so that your striker can actually finish properly? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think there is a Subforum for just that, tactic/Training

[tecni]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gazzamark:

My Newcastle team has no probs scoring, Aguero finished last season with 32 league goals. Sounds like people are griping just cos their tactics or training aren't right. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There you go. The standard reply from 'SI can do no wrong, it's your tactic'.

[DamianY2J]

Well, some people are having problems. Some are not. The Tactics forum highlights solutions for people having the problem, and there are a number of really good threads about how to get the best out of your team.

So, I would say that being told to visit that forum is a valid and sensible reply.

[Dave C]

Here's the thing. Both camps are right.

There IS a problem with the game and it IS your tactics too.

As plenty of people have said, it's not a universal problem, it doesn't affect the AI, so the problem is being caused by something you are doing, and it is fixable.

But, that doesn't meant here's no problem.

For me, the basic issue is the lack of interplay in the last third. Players get around the 18 yard box, and they shoot early. There's no attempt to move for a better position, take players on, cut the ball back, pass it etc.

This leads to a lot of shots, and most of them aren't that good (even if you think they look good).

If there was more interplay, more attacks would breakdown, so there'd be fewer shots, but the shots there were would be a little better so the averages would go up in those unrealistic domination scenarios.

I think there are still issues with the match morale stuff, especially the boost keepers get from a few early saves, but it's not the major problem.

[Fred_the_Red]

OK this thread is exploding now and I am glad I am not the only one with this problem.

Now Ive read all the comments here and open to suggestions. You guys have suggested changing tactics.

Ive took the advice and toned down my instructions.

From right to left (0 - 20)

Mentality is down to normal (10) MCa is 11

Creative freedom is 11

Tempo is 7 (normal)

Now I am still getting a high amount of shots missed.

Now I feel that if I tone down the mentality and CF down further I would basically be playing defensive football or possesion play. Which I dont want I want a United/Chelsea/Arsenal style of play which is attacking.

Now is there anymore suggestions ?

[jbrowes]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tecni:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gazzamark:

My Newcastle team has no probs scoring, Aguero finished last season with 32 league goals. Sounds like people are griping just cos their tactics or training aren't right. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There you go. The standard reply from 'SI can do no wrong, it's your tactic'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's it exactly. For £25 SI have produced a great game. I have recently adjusted my training schedules and completely altered my tactics which so far have paid dividends. Possibly the only thing that annoys me is that sometimes an obscure opposition goalkeeper plays ten times better than mine (Cech) and makes a series of almost unbelievable saves and wins MOM. BUT, I surpose that's football.

[Fred_the_Red]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tecni:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gazzamark:

My Newcastle team has no probs scoring, Aguero finished last season with 32 league goals. Sounds like people are griping just cos their tactics or training aren't right. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There you go. The standard reply from 'SI can do no wrong, it's your tactic'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do agree with you and I dont think people see our point.

The people with this problem are those who have created a tactic that allows players to express themselves in creating chances. Now my tactic can create 30 chances a game but only have 15 on target. Now people have said this is down to the quality of chance. True. But what you guys dont see is the player is outside of the box he has 3 options, 1 to shoot and 1 to play through ball or 1 to pass out wide or to another player. Now what I see in the match engine is more likely 75% of the time he attempts to shoot. Now this happens to midfield players, defensive mids, wingers and attackers. Becuase they shoot from outside of the box or attempt to shoot from positions which results in him not hitting the target the number of shots goes up. Even if the long shots is set on rarely.

Now people have said this is because creative freedom, mentality or tempo is too high. I have toned down these to normal now and I still get the same results. I think the creative freedom, mentality and tempo settings are too senestive in this version. The creative freedon overides the long shots instructions This is why I think and what people have suggested makes players shoot from ridiculars positions. Creative freedom in past version meant how much creativity is involved in creating chances, the higher CF is the higher chance that player will create oppotunities attemp through balls, play balls wide etc. FM08 has made creative freedom to somewhat override team instructions and instead just attempt creative shooting oppotunites and take risky shots, risky passes.

Before patch there were problems with closing down which is why I think players took more shots because they were never closed down. This seems to have been fixed now but I still get attackers shooting from outside of the box. Midfielders seems to have stopped that now.

[Dave C]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

Now my tactic can create 30 chances a game but only have 15 on target. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm, 50% of shots on target is the real-life norm.

[Dave C]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

Creative freedom in past version meant how much creativity is involved in creating chances, the higher CF is the higher chance that player will create oppotunities attemp through balls, play balls wide etc. FM08 has made creative freedom to somewhat override team instructions and instead just attempt creative shooting oppotunites and take risky shots, risky passes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Creative Freedom has been "the licence to express himself on the pitch" for several years.