Patch 8.0.1. Shots to Goal Ratio not fixed - SHOCKING!! SI Please answer - believe to be related to Closing down and Long shots bug

[nreo]

Because I paid good money for a shocking game filled with more bugs than a zoo.

Get on with it.

[alutac13]

The number of 1v1's using certain tactics is not being debated. I am debating some people's view that if they only create a few 1v1's they will start scoring 90% of them. If you do not believe this then i am not speaking to you. The 1v1 situation is moronic. why it exists we do not know but can only speculate on in a conspiracy theory manner.

[ljdzsgffk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

http://i12.tinypic.com/6ob3pt0.png

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well done, it's a photoshop... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats one of my games, and its not photoshopped (though I do have it).

Trust me, the goals were the hardest shots my team had all game

Dont believe me? I'll upload it

[Kriss]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nreo:

Because I paid good money for a shocking game filled with more bugs than a zoo.

Get on with it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd suggest you get some value from your huge investment by learning how to play it.

[nreo]

so you're saying the shots/goal ratio is solely tactic related.

[Kriss]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nreo:

so you're saying the shots/goal ratio is solely tactic related. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, I think it's a problem and will be resolved.

But I have found ways round it which are still football logical although they debar certain tactics from working realistically.

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nreo:

the lack of constructive response from SI is pathetic.

back to fm2007 it is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You obviously have not been reading this thread..PaulC came in and suggested that people post information about their tactics which are producing so many chances, and give more information so that a pattern can be identified. And you say there is nothing constructive happening. Change your attitude please, and if you think there is a problem at least try and be helpful

[Mitja]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ljdzsgffk:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

http://i12.tinypic.com/6ob3pt0.png

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well done, it's a photoshop... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats one of my games, and its not photoshopped (though I do have it).

Trust me, the goals were the hardest shots my team had all game

Dont believe me? I'll upload it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you,

but please, upload it, for others

[Fred_the_Red]

lol people still dont believe this problem of shots to goal ration exists dispite the thread reaching 8 pages of people complaining and giving examples.

[ljdzsgffk]

http://files-upload.com/files/655034/Man Utd v Derby.pkm

Hope this works..

[Rashidi]

I suggest people stop arguing. If there is an issue then those who face it should post information on their tactics especially those that seem to be generating extraordinary 1v1s. So far I've only seen one person giving that kind of information

[Mitja]

I'll repeat myself.

why are so many 100% happening?

that is the real issue...

[SmurfDude]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nreo:

so you're saying the shots/goal ratio is solely tactic related. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, I think it's a problem and will be resolved.

But I have found ways round it which are still football logical although they debar certain tactics from working realistically. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be fair though that isn't really an answer any of us want to hear. Being told to find ways around a problem which shouldn't exist isn't something I am happy to read.

It's good that it'll be resolved, but to be fair you can't expect people to change their way of playing to suit a broken match engine, which it basically is if we;re forced to play a certain way to avoid this issue.

People will come here to express their anger, and rightly so...although sadly some people do it in a way which is too aggressive.

[Mitja]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

I suggest people stop arguing. If there is an issue then those who face it should post information on their tactics especially those that seem to be generating extraordinary 1v1s. So far I've only seen one person giving that kind of information </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok rashidi with all respect,but you must be joking...

look at those (moaners) treads, people are posting their statistics and it's crazy to think that tactics and 100% could be linked.

Fergie: "hey Cristiano!! you know you must not score when we play on 17th notch of our tempo"

is that what you are trying to say? of course not.

[nreo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nreo:

so you're saying the shots/goal ratio is solely tactic related. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, I think it's a problem and will be resolved.

But I have found ways round it which are still football logical although they debar certain tactics from working realistically. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes so its totally unrealistic. On my fm2008 box it says its 'more realistic than ever' if i translate it into english. laughable.

Rashidi, understand the frustration of a 6 year loyal customer when PaulC comes in, without any real information.

He gives no timeframe to when this problem will be solved.

He fails to acknowledge that its a problem at all, when he says that its something we'll have to get through 'together' and when enough users contribute' MAYBE we can find a pattern. despite the huge quantities of posts being thrown about on this forum the lack of acknowledgement and the lack of effort shown, after everyone being so excited with the 8.0.1 patch being released. Previous versions of fm had bugs sure, fair enough, but they were playable in a realistic sense, to a certain extent. this game has its heart and soul flawed; the match engine.

this is NOT freeware, this is not something free that we SHOULD HAVE to help you with. understand the frustration here. understand the expectation of hundreds if not thousands of loyal fans, only for matches to be played out like fred_the_red's.

I'll help out sure, i'll post my tactics and formation, i'll change my attitude if it means this game is fixed faster, or at least the match engine is fixed. i'll spend my available free time trying to help fix a game that i should be playing during that time.

but forgodsake at least an apology will do, instead of bathing in our cash and telling us we'll find patterns 'together'!

/rant over.

[alutac13]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ljdzsgffk:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

http://i12.tinypic.com/6ob3pt0.png

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well done, it's a photoshop... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats one of my games, and its not photoshopped (though I do have it).

Trust me, the goals were the hardest shots my team had all game

Dont believe me? I'll upload it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you,

but please, upload it, for others </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If i created 40 shots a game and it was the 2 tap ins that were converted i would happier. The type of goals scored/% converted is something that should be easy for sigames to get to the bottom of. Can they not do experiments to see what chances are being created/converted? Do they really need us to do it. What were/are the testers doing?

Unfortunately it is too easy for some naysayers to say you probably had 20 shots blocked or 30 shots from outside the box. Having shots blocked not count or as a seperate category would help. Also any player who needs on average 30 shots per goal (ie all my midfielders) should have 1 or 2 for l.shots, composure and finishing for this to make sense.

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

I suggest people stop arguing. If there is an issue then those who face it should post information on their tactics especially those that seem to be generating extraordinary 1v1s. So far I've only seen one person giving that kind of information </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok rashidi with all respect,but you must be joking...

look at those (moaners) treads, people are posting their statistics and it's crazy to think that tactics and 100% could be linked.

Fergie: "hey Cristiano!! you know you must not score when we play on 17th notch of our tempo"

is that what you are trying to say? of course not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Tell you what. Let's try and get to the bottom of it together rather than fight.

If we take the position that its tactics related - can people post answers to the following:

- Are you suffering too many wasted chances and averageing 20+ shots per game?

- Can you give us an overview of your tactics in terms of formation and team/player instructions - eg mentality, depth, creative freedom, tempo etc.

Then if we get enough info from enough </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mitja...stop cracking jokes and read the thread...a position needs to be taken, a starting point so that a solution can be found.

[SmurfDude]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alutac13:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ljdzsgffk:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

http://i12.tinypic.com/6ob3pt0.png

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well done, it's a photoshop... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats one of my games, and its not photoshopped (though I do have it).

Trust me, the goals were the hardest shots my team had all game

Dont believe me? I'll upload it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you,

but please, upload it, for others </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If i created 40 shots a game and it was the 2 tap ins that were converted i would happier. The type of goals scored/% converted is something that should be easy for sigames to get to the bottom of. Can they not do experiments to see what chances are being created/converted? Do they really need us to do it. What were/are the testers doing?

Unfortunately it is too easy for some naysayers to say you probably had 20 shots blocked or 30 shots from outside the box. Having shots blocked not count or as a seperate category would help. Also any player who needs on average 30 shots per goal (ie all my midfielders) should have 1 or 2 for l.shots, composure and finishing for this to make sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is why PaulC suggested to give information on how we play, what tactics we use etc. So then I assume the testers would be told to mimic these tactics so they can observe the problem themselves.

[Kriss]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SmurfDude:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nreo:

so you're saying the shots/goal ratio is solely tactic related. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, I think it's a problem and will be resolved.

But I have found ways round it which are still football logical although they debar certain tactics from working realistically. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be fair though that isn't really an answer any of us want to hear. Being told to find ways around a problem which shouldn't exist isn't something I am happy to read.

It's good that it'll be resolved, but to be fair you can't expect people to change their way of playing to suit a broken match engine, which it basically is if we;re forced to play a certain way to avoid this issue.

People will come here to express their anger, and rightly so...although sadly some people do it in a way which is too aggressive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anger doesn't get problems resolved, reporting supported by facts does.

This issue was clouded from day one because many people don't experience the problem.

Finding a way round a tactic which doesn't work is a huge part of FM's gameplay anyway whether the cause is imbalance in the game or the load of carp rubbish I just signed.

So needing to do it under certain circumstances shouldn't provoke the kind of vitriol and abuse we see here.

Sadly for the first time I've seen abuse for the sake of it rather than the good of the game.

[alutac13]

If sigames came back and said we had a look at 100 games and players scored x% of 1v1's and x = a number significantly larger than 5 then i

would accept it. I could care less what tactics they were using when they created/scored these chances. I would not say i demand you tell me every single detail of what happened before i will consider listening to you. Not saying Sigames does this just that some people seem to believe they should.

[SmurfDude]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Anger doesn't get problems resolved, reporting supported by facts does.

This issue was clouded from day one because many people don't experience the problem.

Finding a way round a tactic which doesn't work is a huge part of FM's gameplay anyway whether the cause is imbalance in the game or the load of carp rubbish I just signed.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem is though, there is a difference between finding a way around an opponents tactic when they are dominating play, and having to find a way around a problem where it's actually us who are dominating and getting all the chances, yet they are missed, for whatever reason that may be.

I'm totally fine with having to tweak tactics to win, that's part of the fun for me.

But in my mind, if I create a tactic which can easily break through the defense and have my star striker 1 vs 1 with the keeper several times each match, then my tactic is sound and shouldn't need changing, correct? That is my real complaint here.

The match engine is either giving me the false illusion that I am in command of the game, or I really am, and there is a bug which stops not only good chances being scored, but also numerous 1 vs 1's.

[alutac13]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SmurfDude:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alutac13:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ljdzsgffk:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

http://i12.tinypic.com/6ob3pt0.png

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well done, it's a photoshop... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats one of my games, and its not photoshopped (though I do have it).

Trust me, the goals were the hardest shots my team had all game

Dont believe me? I'll upload it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you,

but please, upload it, for others </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If i created 40 shots a game and it was the 2 tap ins that were converted i would happier. The type of goals scored/% converted is something that should be easy for sigames to get to the bottom of. Can they not do experiments to see what chances are being created/converted? Do they really need us to do it. What were/are the testers doing?

Unfortunately it is too easy for some naysayers to say you probably had 20 shots blocked or 30 shots from outside the box. Having shots blocked not count or as a seperate category would help. Also any player who needs on average 30 shots per goal (ie all my midfielders) should have 1 or 2 for l.shots, composure and finishing for this to make sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is why PaulC suggested to give information on how we play, what tactics we use etc. So then I assume the testers would be told to mimic these tactics so they can observe the problem themselves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They don't need to use anyone's. Just use a few presets and tell us what happened. It seems that all the testers must either be blind or have used the exact same tactic which hides the flaws in the game engine.

[JordanC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

You obviously have not been reading this thread..PaulC came in and suggested that people post information about their tactics which are producing so many chances, and give more information so that a pattern can be identified. And you say there is nothing constructive happening. Change your attitude please, and if you think there is a problem at least try and be helpful </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, I love it when Rashidi lays down the iron fist!

He's right though. It's not very productive to just moan about a problem you're having but to go in with the attitude of "either I'm doing something wrong and I'll work on finding a solution" or "SI is looking into it and I'll provide them with a bunch of data so we can all figure this out together".

I'm going to upload a stats screenshot, tsh & pkm files on my server to show you what I've done with the match engine and limiting my chances yet scoring a higher %. Be aware that some of these games are really boring to watch with a lot of midfield passing and missed through balls.

[nymanr]

One trend i have seen is most people who seem to experience this play with top quality sides and play a quick attacking football. How that could be wrong and to say that people that play that way are stupid for doing so is just wrong. Most quality sides play quick as they have the skill to hold the ball at that pace and can avoid being closed down in that way against weaker teams. Tempo of game style should not have an effect on finishing but only on the manner of how the player has found him self in the scoring position in the first place. Sure as the striker has made a quick run to get to the ball it can have some effect but not to the level it has now.

As PaulC said we should just post our formations and our team instructions so that they can get a idea of what is causing this.

This is one of the most extreme games i had where this happened.

Man Utd - Sheffield UTD

And my formation

Man Utd Formation

Tactics

Mentality: normal + 4 (All have same except defense who have normal -2)

Creative Freedom: Team normal (wingers/strikers normal + 3)

Passing style: Mixed

Tempo: normal + 4 (quick)

Width: normal + 4 (wide)

Time wasting: Rarely

D.Line: Normal

Tackling: Normal

As i have good passers in my team "try through balls" is set to often for most midfielders and mixed for the rest. I cross rarely as my strikers don't have the ability to win any headers. Averaged about 5-7 "clean" 1&1 per game with this tactic. That is not counting all the easy no pressure shots strikers also missed when alone in the penalty area. Have since changed tactics to slow low mentality and have better statistics for my finishing but does not seem right that i have to play slow / defensive to get my strikers to convert my clear chances.

[alutac13]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SmurfDude:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Anger doesn't get problems resolved, reporting supported by facts does.

This issue was clouded from day one because many people don't experience the problem.

Finding a way round a tactic which doesn't work is a huge part of FM's gameplay anyway whether the cause is imbalance in the game or the load of carp rubbish I just signed.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem is though, there is a difference between finding a way around an opponents tactic when they are dominating play, and having to find a way around a problem where it's actually us who are dominating and getting all the chances, yet they are missed, for whatever reason that may be.

I'm totally fine with having to tweak tactics to win, that's part of the fun for me.

But in my mind, if I create a tactic which can easily break through the defense and have my star striker 1 vs 1 with the keeper several times each match, then my tactic is sound and shouldn't need changing, correct? That is my real complaint here.

The match engine is either giving me the false illusion that I am in command of the game, or I really am, and there is a bug which stops not only good chances being scored, but also numerous 1 vs 1's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't agree more with smurf. It is barely tolerable if you have to play in 1 specific way to win in a action footie game ie in one version of FIFA shoot from a certain spot, the next crosses from a certain area. for you to have to use 1 tactic no matter what your players strengths/weaknesses are you have in a management sim i should not have to tell how that sounds.

Too many sitters are missed. From looking at the forums this is coming from people who are using vastly different tactics. Expecting people to repeat what tactics they use every time they post is unreasonable. People have given the info now we need to see if anything is done and how quickly. Or a response could be given disproving our theories. I have only seen one poster say he scored a decent number of 1v1's in 1 game (2 out of 3). Even with a 10% success rate this should happen fairly often considering the number of people out there.

The silence is deafening.

[Kriss]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As i have good passers in my team "try through balls" is set to often for most midfielders and mixed for the rest. I cross rarely as my strikers don't have the ability to win any headers. Averaged about 5-7 "clean" 1&1 per game with this tactic. That is not counting all the easy no pressure shots strikers also missed when alone in the penalty area. Have since changed tactics to slow low mentality and have better statistics for my finishing but does not seem right that i have to play slow / defensive to get my strikers to convert my clear chances. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good wingers, strikers who head well and a midfield set to defend when we lose possesion.

Those basic rules are getting me very realistic results and stats.

[alutac13]

missed out even with a 10% succcess rate this should happen fairly often considering the number of people playing/posting. Obviously it does not have to be in 1 game. If someone says they have scored 6/7/8 out of 10 1v1's over x number of game i would be suprised...then comes the silence is deafening

[Mitja]

I believe that PaulC said that they were testing just AI vs AI matches??? but he said so....

and RASHIDI, the real problem with 1/1 chances is not they are not scored, it's the amount of them... so if they were scored we would have crazy resoults here, and the easist way this resoults dont happen for match engine is, serious SOT/GOAL issue....and I realy can't believe SI don't know it....

and we come to "defensive knowledge" this match engine has.... when watching my defenders it seems like they never played or even heard for football.

I'm sorry but these are my feelings I'm not mad at anybody.

the thing is I know I'm right. and as I said I also don't believe that SI don't know for this "defensive bug", they made huge improvements on match engine from 07. the problem is you can't just give us such a (not scoring) fix and pretend everything is OK. I understand it's not easy to make human thinking players, but just say so....

[alutac13]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As i have good passers in my team "try through balls" is set to often for most midfielders and mixed for the rest. I cross rarely as my strikers don't have the ability to win any headers. Averaged about 5-7 "clean" 1&1 per game with this tactic. That is not counting all the easy no pressure shots strikers also missed when alone in the penalty area. Have since changed tactics to slow low mentality and have better statistics for my finishing but does not seem right that i have to play slow / defensive to get my strikers to convert my clear chances. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good wingers, strikers who head well and a midfield set to defend when we lose possesion.

Those basic rules are getting me very realistic results and stats. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. The match engine seems very realistic in terms of created/converted chances from crosses (as well as some other areas). Does this mean everyone must play that way. I am not criticising because i think the game is crap. I just think pointing out problems is likely to lead to improvements. If no one complains about something developers should know they have done a good job. Anyway their sales should also tell them a lot about how people view the series in general. Also does this mean you never get 1v1's..if you do are they converted regularly...do you not think your strikers miss more sitters from non crosses than you would expect...more info please.

[Kriss]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">True. The match engine seems very realistic in terms of created/converted chances from crosses (as well as some other areas). Does this mean everyone must play that way. I am not criticising because i think the game is crap. I just think pointing out problems is likely to lead to improvements. If no one complains about something developers should know they have done a good job. Anyway their sales should also tell them a lot about how people view the series in general. Also does this mean you never get 1v1's..if you do are they converted regularly...do you not think your strikers miss more sitters from non crosses than you would expect...more info please. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sensibly you'd play the way that wins you matches while this is looked at.

I've set it up so that very little goes through the centre and almost all chances come from crosses.

Not all headers by any means and Xavi and Rosicky have scored some brilliant first timers from crosses to the edge of the box.

Where one on ones do occur the chance is rarely taken unless it's from a quite acute angle.

I'm actually getting quite a buzz out of having got round the problem.

Yes I do believe it's a problem (but I'm not the ultimate authority

Their sales tell them that FM is more popular than ever btw.

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

I believe that PaulC said that they were testing just AI vs AI matches??? but he said so....

and RASHIDI, the real problem with 1/1 chances is not they are not scored, it's the amount of them... so if they were scored we would have crazy resoults here, and the easist way this resoults dont happen for match engine is, serious SOT/GOAL issue....and I realy can't believe SI don't know it....

and we come to "defensive knowledge" this match engine has.... when watching my defenders it seems like they never played or even heard for football.

I'm sorry but these are my feelings I'm not mad at anybody.

the thing is I know I'm right. and as I said I also don't believe that SI don't know for this "defensive bug", they made huge improvements on match engine from 07. the problem is you can't just give us such a (not scoring) fix and pretend everything is OK. I understand it's not easy to make human thinking players, but just say so.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For one thing, I'm not disagreeing with anyone here..if someone experiences an anomaly then we need to know how to replicate it to see if its a problem. Yes the game is "soaked" to see how the AI v AI results pan out, since the AI world is vital to game balance. Human managers on the other hand have different and unique permutations when it comes to tactical formations and these can often throw out interesting results. I had a match which produced something like 30 shots 20 of which were on target and there was only 1 goal Possession was around 60% and trust me I was really upset.

Is there a problem, there might be, but in order to find out how to fix it without unbalancing the whole matter is to look at pkms,saved games and the like.

I completely agree that the engine does seem to throw out a lot of 1v1s. These are usually the result of a human tactic. Its information like this that is needed...if someone is dominating..and having bucketloads of chances and still not winning..then there is a problem. What is needed is not a whole lot of people throwing smoke in the air, but more clarity, and this can only come in the form of information about tactics, pkms and the like...

I'm all for getting problems fixed, and I know there are some people who think this is an issue, for it to be handled efficiently the right kind of information is required. Working together I'm certain we can shed more light on the issue.

[nymanr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As i have good passers in my team "try through balls" is set to often for most midfielders and mixed for the rest. I cross rarely as my strikers don't have the ability to win any headers. Averaged about 5-7 "clean" 1&1 per game with this tactic. That is not counting all the easy no pressure shots strikers also missed when alone in the penalty area. Have since changed tactics to slow low mentality and have better statistics for my finishing but does not seem right that i have to play slow / defensive to get my strikers to convert my clear chances. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good wingers, strikers who head well and a midfield set to defend when we lose possesion.

Those basic rules are getting me very realistic results and stats. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That seems to be true. Looked through Europe in my game and noticed that in all top leagues top goal scorer was a player that was strong and could jump/head. Stopped crossing ball as my strikers could not win any headers and that took their rating for the games way down. They got about 10 challenges each per game winning about 1 per game. As i could not direct my crossing to have them run on to crosses i just took them away. That then gave my more passing and more good chances.

The best goal scorer in Europe was Zlatan.I because he can do both head and run with the ball. Had about one gaol/game. David villa had scored 5 goals in 22 apps for Valencia. Villa had a great SOT ratio but could not get any.

It is true my results are much more realistic when i play slow defensive but that relates to goal scores and shots per game. Am still not able to score from 1&1 and most goals come from rebounds.

[alutac13]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">True. The match engine seems very realistic in terms of created/converted chances from crosses (as well as some other areas). Does this mean everyone must play that way. I am not criticising because i think the game is crap. I just think pointing out problems is likely to lead to improvements. If no one complains about something developers should know they have done a good job. Anyway their sales should also tell them a lot about how people view the series in general. Also does this mean you never get 1v1's..if you do are they converted regularly...do you not think your strikers miss more sitters from non crosses than you would expect...more info please. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sensibly you'd play the way that wins you matches while this is looked at.

I've set it up so that very little goes through the centre and almost all chances come from crosses.

Not all headers by any means and Xavi and Rosicky have scored some brilliant first timers from crosses to the edge of the box.

Where one on ones do occur the chance is rarely taken unless it's from a quite acute angle.

I'm actually getting quite a buzz out of having got round the problem.

Yes I do believe it's a problem (but I'm not the ultimate authority

Their sales tell them that FM is more popular than ever btw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My results are fairly unchanged. I was coming just outside the top 4 (with everton) playing in a way that made sense (and creating 20+ shots per game including many good ones). I am coming just outside the top 4 with new more defensive tactics (creating and scoring less goals). Most are not complaining because they can't win. They are complaining because the match seems unrealistic when you miss so many great chances and then score from long range from weird angles. That this happens sometimes in football is undeniable..that it will happen so often is silly.

[daleuk8]

if this is a problem will it be sorted sooner rather than later?

[Mitja]

SI said the next patch will be out in february.

but with such response, I believe they allready doing the new one.

[SmurfDude]

In the meantime I'd strongly recommend reverting back to the first beta patch, if this issue is really annoying you. The match engine is actually pretty enjoyable in the beta.

[daleuk8]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">SI said the next patch will be out in february.

but with such response, I believe they allready doing the new one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what makes you think they are already doing it? by the sounds of it, they are trying to work out if it is a problem or not?

[ljdzsgffk]

Just beat Juventus 4-0. All of my goals were tap ins. All came from an easy one-on-one. I would have enjoyed it if the one-on-ones had gone in instead of the rebounds. Instead, it was a hollow victory for me.

[JordanC]

Ok, I've sorted through my first two months of my new game with Shrewsbury in CC League 2. Although I'm posting two matchs where it is more prevelant than others, here you go:

Shrewsbury v. Notts County PKM (extended)

Shrewsbury v. Notts County MATCH STATS

Shrewsbury v. Notts County PLAYER STATS

Bury v. Shrewsbury PKM (key)

Bury v. Shrewsbury MATCH STATS

Bury v. Shrewsbury PLAYER STATS

Here is the TSH file - Shrewsbury Tactic

This is a basic framework though that I start from. The games above have small changes here and there that were made prior or during the match.

*** Watch the player stats/ratings as the PKM goes through the match. You'll notice that players that are taking more and more shots aren't scoring, yet another player who makes his first shot scores right away. (a small insight into my opinion that missed shots deflate confidence and create a "quicksand" effect)

*** Also, in the Bury game, there are a lot of missed one-on-ones, like one for me and I think 3 for Bury. Comparing this game to some of my others, this had a VERY HIGH amount of 1-on-1 chances (which is probably still a considerably lower amount than some of your AVERAGE games)

For background information, here were my results with corresponding SOG stats:

(Shots/On Target/Goals) *first set is always me

H Arsenal 7/4/1 & 29/10/3

A Heriot Watt 9/4/0 & 19/12/3

A Connahs Quay 6/3/1 & 7/3/0

H Leicester 2/2/0 & 19/10/2

H Dag Red 9/3/0 & 9/4/0

H Colchester 8/5/0 & 14/7/2

A Grimsby 8/4/1 & 8/4/1

H Hereford 13/4/1 & 7/3/0

A Wycombe 5/1/0 & 14/7/1

H Notts Co 11/4/3 & 14/6/3

H Notts Co 9/3/3 & 16/9/1

A Wrexham 14/3/1 & 8/3/1

H Bradford 10/5/0 & 4/1/0

A Bury 12/6/3 & 10/8/3

H Macclesfield 11/8/2 & 6/3/1

Sorting this all out, you get these percentages:

Shrewsbury 134/59/16

SOG/Target: 44% (my players suck!)

Goals/Target: 27% (about 1 in 3.75)

Goals/Total Shots: 12% overall (about 1 in 8.5)

Opponents 185/92/21

SOG/Target: 50%

Goals/Target: 23% (about 1 in 4.5)

Goals/Total Shots: 11% overall (about 1 in 9)

These SOG percentages seem pretty normal to me in comparison to real-life football.

Please take a look at the files above and give some feedback comments. Explain to me what I am doing differently from you and what you're experiencing. Let's help out Paul as much as possible!

[Mitja]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daleuk7:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">SI said the next patch will be out in february.

but with such response, I believe they allready doing the new one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what makes you think they are already doing it? by the sounds of it, they are trying to work out if it is a problem or not? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

believe me, they know it's a huge problem...

[alutac13]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JordanC:

Ok, I've sorted through my first two months of my new game with Shrewsbury in CC League 2. Although I'm posting two matchs where it is more prevelant than others, here you go:

Shrewsbury v. Notts County PKM (extended)

Shrewsbury v. Notts County MATCH STATS

Shrewsbury v. Notts County PLAYER STATS

Bury v. Shrewsbury PKM (key)

Bury v. Shrewsbury MATCH STATS

Bury v. Shrewsbury PLAYER STATS

Here is the TSH file - Shrewsbury Tactic

This is a basic framework though that I start from. The games above have small changes here and there that were made prior or during the match.

*** Watch the player stats/ratings as the PKM goes through the match. You'll notice that players that are taking more and more shots aren't scoring, yet another player who makes his first shot scores right away. (a small insight into my opinion that missed shots deflate confidence and create a "quicksand" effect)

*** Also, in the Bury game, there are a lot of missed one-on-ones, like one for me and I think 3 for Bury. Comparing this game to some of my others, this had a VERY HIGH amount of 1-on-1 chances (which is probably still a considerably lower amount than some of your AVERAGE games)

For background information, here were my results with corresponding SOG stats:

(Shots/On Target/Goals) *first set is always me

H Arsenal 7/4/1 & 29/10/3

A Heriot Watt 9/4/0 & 19/12/3

A Connahs Quay 6/3/1 & 7/3/0

H Leicester 2/2/0 & 19/10/2

H Dag Red 9/3/0 & 9/4/0

H Colchester 8/5/0 & 14/7/2

A Grimsby 8/4/1 & 8/4/1

H Hereford 13/4/1 & 7/3/0

A Wycombe 5/1/0 & 14/7/1

H Notts Co 11/4/3 & 14/6/3

H Notts Co 9/3/3 & 16/9/1

A Wrexham 14/3/1 & 8/3/1

H Bradford 10/5/0 & 4/1/0

A Bury 12/6/3 & 10/8/3

H Macclesfield 11/8/2 & 6/3/1

Sorting this all out, you get these percentages:

Shrewsbury 134/59/16

SOG/Target: 44% (my players suck!)

Goals/Target: 27% (about 1 in 3.75)

Goals/Total Shots: 12% overall (about 1 in 8.5)

Opponents 185/92/21

SOG/Target: 50%

Goals/Target: 23% (about 1 in 4.5)

Goals/Total Shots: 11% overall (about 1 in 9)

These SOG percentages seem pretty normal to me in comparison to real-life football.

Please take a look at the files above and give some feedback comments. Explain to me what I am doing differently from you and what you're experiencing. Let's help out Paul as much as possible! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's not a major problem with overall stats if you use certain tactics. What will never change is the fact that certain types of chances are missed far too often.

[daleuk8]

believe me, they know it's a huge problem...[/

well they have not come out and said that..is there anyone i can e-mail at SI I e-mailed a while back but no reply

[Kriss]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daleuk7:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">SI said the next patch will be out in february.

but with such response, I believe they allready doing the new one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what makes you think they are already doing it? by the sounds of it, they are trying to work out if it is a problem or not? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

believe me, they know it's a huge problem... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That borders on the verge of hysterical overstatement.

What "they" know is that they will always investigate problems and if they find adjustment is required they'll make it, within "their" terms of reference and constraints.

[Rams_]

I have just witnessed Rob Earnshaw miss from literally 1 yard out with an open net.

Close to giving up :/

[mertle]

well my take on this there is a significant change to the patch thats for sure. You can play a weak side and despite creating oportunities score low when before you could be winning 9-0 with loads of chances and since patch it almost locks to 1 or 2 goals.

Noticed that also large amount of shots go straight to the goallie almost always never hardly placed unlike before the patch striker used there composer more to score. Has SI dumbed down the effect of composer.

Now What I observed tactically from the AI is mistifying.

There does not seem to be very few times a balanced tactic employed. Its either gun ho (overload the front) or ultra defensive(overload defensive). Mainly defensive as the AI literally scared to take on succesful sides. Maybe why its so easy to wrack up chances and ultimately huge umbeaten runs.

This what I think is the real issue the defensive minded attitude of the AI. Poorly robotic nature of AI trying to crack a tactic or work around such tactic.

I think there is another problem with the game which is an exploit.

Thats is allout attack conjunction with quick tempo the culprit. Put every player on hold ball all attack players on full creativity with a 4-4-2 and the chances will flow. The players dont burn out this to me is a worry.

Is this the way large volumes of chances are happening due to the creativity and tempo going overdrive. However SI since the patch I believe they have tried to shift the game into normality so the game is being fixed to not allow mass goal scoring. Hence composer dumbing as one way to stop these chances being scored in abundence. However what I would have settled is the game stopping you using the fast tempo/all out attack without severe enegy penalty. Poorish natural fitness should go down to virtual zero fitness.

Sorry but I think this should be made to be a tactic used for 20 mins max. It should not be able to be used 90 mins. Some might disagree.

[JordanC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alutac13:

There's not a major problem with overall stats if you use certain tactics. What will never change is the fact that certain types of chances are missed far too often. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm trying to show that isn't always the case at all. Like I commented about my Bury game that a grand total of FOUR or FIVE one-on-one chances between both teams in a full match is VERY HIGH for me. There are many matches I've played where there were NO one-on-one chances or something in the range of 1-3 between both sides.

I'm showing that my tactics don't seem to create those types of opportunites well at all, yet when they do show up, I convert more often than not.

Look at the total SOG I have in my games...some have 12 SOG all game COMBINED by both teams. Most of the screenshots I see up here have 25-30 SOG just from one team! Those teams score twice, missing 6 one-on-ones. My team scores twice, only creating 2 one-on-ones and converting on one of them.

I'm not trying to debate whether it SHOULD be this way or who's right or wrong. I'm not saying my tactical approach is a solution to everyome's woes. All I did was make tactics that don't create many one-on-ones, yet have a much higher conversion rate on them. I honestly want to figure out with everyone why this is.

[alutac13]

If you have a high conversion rate for 1v1's then i am surprised. What exactly do you consider to be a 1v1? I would think that the engine considers it to be when the nearest defender is at least x distance away from the striker. I have not stuck to the same playes or tactics and i am assuming that the oponents do not all have the same tactics/players with same skills. I do not create as many 1v1's as i used to i still miss virtually every one. 1v1 in this case being when there is no defender anywhere near the attacker/gk. The opponent misses virtually every one as well. If this is not the only sit. which is considered a 1v1 then it makes even less sense. More 1v1's scored with defenders close on heals compared to almost none scored when there is absolutely no pressure/rush. Again certain players may be better under pressure than others but if it is a general trend it is disturbing.

[PaulC]

Keep the feedback coming chaps, but please post links to pkms as well as screenshots!

Despite what some of you think, we do take our post release support seriously, and will not be ignoring this issue.

[JordanC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alutac13:

If you have a high conversion rate for 1v1's then i am surprised. What exactly do you consider to be a 1v1? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I consider a 1v1 to a be a player dribbling with the ball and the only person between them and the goal is the GK and clear free from any defenders (maybe 2-3 steps at least).

Most of my misses aren't shots into the chest right at the GK. They're either tipped over the bar or shot low and just wide of the goal. When I was Liverpool, they had much better placement. I'm playing in L2 though, so my players can't do anything well anyways, but they still get it just past the keeper about half the time they get a 1v1 chance (which as I said previously is not too often)

[alutac13]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:

Keep the feedback coming chaps, but please post links to pkms as well as screenshots!

Despite what some of you think, we do take our post release support seriously, and will not be ignoring this issue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any new thoughts on the blocks being a seperate category or removed completely Paul?

Also I would really like there to be some info on what type of goals a player has scored on a page you can see in game. How many were headers/long range efforts etc. How many direct fk attempted/scored etc. This would help with tactics rather than having to rely on looking back at reports to make 100% sure of height of cross/what exactly went on. Also relying on ones memory is somewhat dodgy. I would think someone in real life clubs analyses this kind of thing and makes it available to their managers.

Also any chance of saying when exactly the match engine considers it to be a 1v1 in terms of when it uses attributes related to that. I understand telling us exactly what attributes are important would detract from the fun but saying situation x is a 1v1 situation situation y is not in my opinion wouldn't.