Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community

AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

kipfizh

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 2.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
yugo23

yugo23

Posted
Posted

Fantastic update. Lack of proper signings was the key reason why the Bandits are stil in League 1. On the other side, the Sheriffs have done great job in January, which paid off at the end. Next season will be even better.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hibbees

Hibbees

Posted
Posted

I'd be interested to know what would happen if after all the origional stars / idiots retire, you add a new batch into each club again, would the clubs reputations be big enough to keep the 2nd batch, or would they once more lose them to the more estabished clubs?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Kertiz

Kertiz

Posted
Posted

Good update, liked the way you did the second half of the season. Can't help but think it'd be easier though if you put a few screenshots of the table at certain points of the season, i.e. at the end of April leading up to the 'Last Push' or something. Would save you a lot of writing and make it clearer for us!

Not surprised the Sherrifs went up, as soon as I saw they got Tyson I knew they'd do well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
zyzzy

zyzzy

Posted
Posted
I'd be interested to know what would happen if after all the origional stars / idiots retire, you add a new batch into each club again, would the clubs reputations be big enough to keep the 2nd batch, or would they once more lose them to the more estabished clubs?

This is an interesting question. Unless there's a save game editor I don't know about, another option would be to start the teams in a higher league with appropriate reputation levels and resources. How high would their reputation/league level have to be to (most of) keep the stars? How would the team of starlets perform in the Premiership? How far would a team starting in League 1 be able to go before the last star left?

Link to post
Share on other sites
kipfizh

kipfizh

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Updated:

World View – National Coefficients

The top twenty European countries, by national coefficient, which affects European qualification:

(Champions League: 4, UEFA Cup: 3)

1 (1). Spain – 102.652 (+5.768)

2 (2). England – 99.736 (+4.125)

3 (3). Italy – 97.143 (+8.750)

(Champions League: 3, UEFA Cup: 3)

4 (4). Germany – 83.274 (+2.500)

5 (5). France – 66.464 (+9.500)

6 (6). Holland – 56.833 (+8.666)

(Champions League: 2, UEFA Cup: 4)

7 (7). Portugal – 52.155 (+4.489)

8 (8). Russia – 46.583 (-0.834)

9 (9). Scotland – 40.325 (-0.333)

(Champions League: 2, UEFA Cup: 3)

10 (12). Ukraine – 34.133 (+2.325)

11 (10). Greece – 33.300 (-2.300)

12 (15). Serbia – 33.250 (+4.250)

13 (14). Belgium – 32.733 (+2.700)

14 (13). Denmark – 30.583 (-0.209)

15 (11). Turkey – 28.650 (-5.950)

(Champions League: 1, UEFA Cup: 3)

16 (16). Austria – 23.500(+0.800)

17 (18). Romania – 22.100 (+1.000)

18 (17). Israel – 21.625 (-0.500)

19 (-). Cyprus – 18.500

20 (-). Croatia – 17.500

Dropping out:

22 (19). Switzerland – 15.800 (-3.500)

23 (20). Norway – 14.750 (-3.775)

Spain, England and Italy continue to dominate, with all of their sides progressing to the latter stages of European competition. France make huge strides in fifth thanks entirely to Lyon winning the Champions League, but are still some way from the big four.

Ajax's run to the semi finals of the UEFA Cup helped Holland stretch away from Portugal, while lower down Serbia continued to improve rapidly, Partizan and Red Star picking up a few decent victories.

Link to post
Share on other sites
polistus

polistus

Posted
Posted

Thanks for your dedication and great ambition, kip! These reports are a joy to read!!!

My feedback:

Transfer reports - must have, the most important part for me

Club season reports - very important, read them carefully, although I would try to make them shorter

Player reports - skimming only

Screenshots - please don't leave them out, I watch them ;)

World View - not essential, could be omitted, except the National Coefficients

I cannot wait for another update!!! :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
7Bestie7

7Bestie7

Posted
Posted

Wow...I just spent around 3-4 days reading this thread to make sure I took everything in. Kip, I never got to see your FM07 experiment but this one is amazing. I'd definitely want that nothing be taken out of your reports, there are times when we may skim them but the detail is there for us to go back later on and enjoy everything even more.

KUTGW!

Link to post
Share on other sites
amazin89

amazin89

Posted
Posted

stummbled on this today and i must say i'm hooked, excellent thresd. it's a shame you didn't do one of these for 08 cause i would've like to read that as i still play 08 over 09.

i do have one question how come the bandits start with 22 players and the sheriffs start with 4. also could you post a screen shoot the two managers, i would like to see thei attributes.

also whats up with man utd, their letting chelsea, arsenal and liverpool dominate the league, cups and europe and letting them take all the starlets.

Link to post
Share on other sites
betterspud

betterspud

Posted
Posted
and where did you get that information from.

I think that it's pretty much well known the Man U don't really like to spend money in the same way that Chelsea do. Their owners just don't have limitless cash to throw away and they only spend what they can justify as a business, whereas Abramovich can just extort a few more million from his homeland to pay for yet another new team.

Link to post
Share on other sites
amazin89

amazin89

Posted
Posted
I think that it's pretty much well known the Man U don't really like to spend money in the same way that Chelsea do. Their owners just don't have limitless cash to throw away and they only spend what they can justify as a business, whereas Abramovich can just extort a few more million from his homeland to pay for yet another new team.

i understand that man utd can't compete with chelsea when it comes to spending money on players, but i'm sure man utd can compete with arseanl and liverpool. anyway i was just asking a question about my team cos i saw the other big three buying all the starlets, i don't want to start no debates/arguments about who has more money.

back on topic, i'm glad to see the sheriffs promoted over their rivals, although i'm disappointed that the idiots look as if their never going to reach their potential.

finally kip this is a great experiment but i do have a few suggestions,

1) have 22 bandits and 22 idiiots to make the teams equal.

2) set all 44 starlets CA to match the league thier in, with PA set to 200

these are just suggestions, i'm not telling kip how to run his experiment

Link to post
Share on other sites
Phil Macklam

Phil Macklam

Posted
Posted

I thought I'd post this again for anyone new who wants just the links to the season reports.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Mravac Kid

Mravac Kid

Posted
Posted
This is an interesting question. Unless there's a save game editor I don't know about, another option would be to start the teams in a higher league with appropriate reputation levels and resources. How high would their reputation/league level have to be to (most of) keep the stars? How would the team of starlets perform in the Premiership? How far would a team starting in League 1 be able to go before the last star left?

It would be fairly easy to edit the newgens in the youth squad to become new starlets using FMRTE.

And a top flight team with the Bandits' resources would probably be able to keep most of them for years, some possibly for their entire careers. And they'd be a devastating force.

Link to post
Share on other sites
betterspud

betterspud

Posted
Posted

finally kip this is a great experiment but i do have a few suggestions,

1) have 22 bandits and 22 idiiots to make the teams equal.

I think Kip gave his reasons in his opening posts as to why he set things up as he did. The idea of the Bandits/Sherriffs Starlets/Idiots thing was to show the contrast between the two and hopefully demonstrate the importance of good temperament over bad. Technically the players are very similar, but the Idiots' attitudes stink and I think it's obvious from the few seasons that they've played out so far that it's only their temperament that is holding them back.

2) set all 44 starlets CA to match the league thier in, with PA set to 200

But then surely we'd never see their development if you're continually pruning them back every season to match the division they're in? What's the point in having a PA of 200 if you aren't allowed to realise your potential?

these are just suggestions, i'm not telling kip how to run his experiment

Maybe you could run an experiment of your own to put some of your ideas into play? We're always keen to read other good experiments. They fill the void left between Bandits/Sheriffs reports. ;) (Which reminds me. I need to get back on my own experiment. It's been a couple of weeks since I updated...)

Link to post
Share on other sites
amazin89

amazin89

Posted
Posted
But then surely we'd never see their development if you're continually pruning them back every season to match the division they're in? What's the point in having a PA of 200 if you aren't allowed to realise your potential?

i meant set their CA to match the league they start in and then let it develop from there. this way they can develop with their team for a few seasons instead of just leaving within half a season or at the end of the season

Link to post
Share on other sites
FishBowlMan

FishBowlMan

Posted
Posted

Fascinating stuff, Kip.

I'm surprised that some of the stars and idiots have remained at their clubs for so long. Also, I was expecting more yellow and especially red cards for the idiots.

Another thing I've noticed are the media predictions for the seasons seem to be wildly off with the exception of the Bandits recent playoff finish. Any insight into this? Also, how do the board expectations compare for each season? Sorry if I've missed this; there's a lot of info to take in at a single sitting.

Link to post
Share on other sites
betterspud

betterspud

Posted
Posted
i meant set their CA to match the league they start in and then let it develop from there. this way they can develop with their team for a few seasons instead of just leaving within half a season or at the end of the season

Oh yeah. That would make sense. Sorry, I'm just being a bit dense.

Like I said, maybe you should try an experiment of your own and let us all know how it goes...? :0)

Link to post
Share on other sites
betterspud

betterspud

Posted
Posted

Another thing I've noticed are the media predictions for the seasons seem to be wildly off with the exception of the Bandits recent playoff finish. Any insight into this? Also, how do the board expectations compare for each season? Sorry if I've missed this; there's a lot of info to take in at a single sitting.

Aren't media predictions and odds from bookies simply a reflection of club reputation? Odds for individual matches might also be augmented by the club's current league position, relative to the opponent, but I don't think it's much more complicated than that. Could be wrong though.

I might have to look into it some more.

Link to post
Share on other sites
SnakeXe

SnakeXe

Posted
Posted
one major difference ive noticed between this and the 07 experiment is how quickly the 2 clubs are moving up the leagues. The bandits took 6 or 7 years to get out of league 1 in the other experiment.

Could be to do with the fact that kip is playing all the matches in full detail now, or could well be improvements in the AI due to the findings of the original experiment!

Link to post
Share on other sites
kipfizh

kipfizh

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1) have 22 bandits and 22 idiiots to make the teams equal.

The reason I didn't do this is because, while the Bandits remain fun to track, the Idiots do have a habit of getting a bit...dull after a while. The four that exist are just meandering around and if I had to write player reports on another 18 of them I think I'd lose the will pretty quickly :).

Granted that the Sheriffs started on the back foot as they had a weaker team, but it does add another angle to the experiment - are they now doing better because they signed more players in that first season, setting them up better for dealing without their stars?

2) set all 44 starlets CA to match the league thier in, with PA set to 200

The idea was that these are true starlets, not just randomly talented individuals. These are the best of the best, and there are plenty of others out there with a 190+ PA who they would not actually be any different from.

Link to post
Share on other sites
kipfizh

kipfizh

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Aren't media predictions and odds from bookies simply a reflection of club reputation? Odds for individual matches might also be augmented by the club's current league position, relative to the opponent, but I don't think it's much more complicated than that. Could be wrong though.

I might have to look into it some more.

Yeah, that's right - the media predictions are hilariously bad for newly promoted teams.

Link to post
Share on other sites
kipfizh

kipfizh

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Season 2013-14

Club reports – Summer Transfers

The Sheriffs had secured their fourth successive promotion, eclipsing the Bandits whose playoff failure left them to face up to their third season in League One. All this left both sides with rebuilding to do – the Sheriffs had to continue their rapid improvements to compete in the Championship, while the Bandits needed some strike power to get out of League One at the third time of asking.

Bandits

The Bandits began with the traditional clearout, which included the disappointment that had been David Healy, after just one season with the club. Legendary Nardiello and Dickinson were also released, leaving the Bandits needing to completely restructure their forward line. It was necessary.

In truth, what they needed was stars – they had fifteen players with a CA of 100, but only two with a CA of 120, and that left them as a merely decent, not destructive, team.

The first two signings of the summer were free transfers, Maurice Ross arriving from Airdrie, and Tom Brooks available after being let go by Championship Plymouth. Neither were likely to make much of an impact, Ross is a right back, but at 32 his CA of 100 is only likely to fall, while Brooks is a 20 year old keeper, but his 86 PA means he should never play for the club. An uninspiring start.

But then it got much better. Striker Cameron Jerome was still scoring goals for Birmingham, but at 27 was persuaded to join the Bandits for a club record £2.2m. His CA of 136 is ten higher than the club's best player, Nicky Maynard, and his PA of 140 is attainable. The partnership of him and Maynard could be frightening for League One.

Inspired by that signing, the fans were hungry for more. Next to arrive was left wing back Chris Armstrong, a £120k capture from Bradford. The 31 year old adds to the 120 CA star list, his rating of 121 now falling from its peak of 125. Following him was 29 year old Lithuanian defensive midfielder Mindaugas Kalonas, his CA of 111 also falling but making him a decent squad player, and a reasonable capture at £130k from Huddersfield.

Next to arrive was Ben Williams, another keeper, this one a 31 year old with a CA of 107 and a PA of 119. Not special.

But then, all of a sudden, the division sat up and took notice, as the Bandits raided Hull with a spectacular triple swoop that made them instant favourites for the league. Three names with Premiership experience behind them – Chris Eagles, Craig Gardner and Roger Johnson were signed for a combined fee of £3.5m, Gardner costing the bulk at £2.9m alone.

27 year old Eagles is primarily a right winger, and the 27 year old's CA of 135 is awesome for this league. 26 year old central midfielder Gardner then trumped him with a CA of 137, and a PA of 145 that he is still young enough to get closer to. The final member of the trio, centre back Johnson, is the eldest at 30, but with a CA of 133 himself is also a star of the division.

The fans didn't know what had hit them, but just as they were recovering from the excitement, the manager signed another one – 25 year old centre back Bruno Ecuele Manga, a Gabonese star with amazing physical presence, was picked up for another club record £2.8m from Ajaccio, and becomes the club's first 140 CA player with an ability level of 141. And it gets better – his PA is 155.

Two more signings remained, the first a free transfer pick up of former Scotland international Michael Stewart, a 32 year old central midfielder with a CA of 112, very decent but low compared to some of the spectacular signings being made. And the last was another stunner – Matthew Etherington being convinced to move from Southend for £275k. At 32, his best days may be behind him, but the left winger has a CA of 126, the same as Maynard, who up until this summer was their best player.

Amidst all the excitement, the club also promoted a youth player with great potential – Mike Essam is a 16 year old centre back with a CA of 73 and a PA of 156.

Before the close season began, the Bandits had two 120 CA players, the best being Maynard at 126. Now they have eight, five of those over 130 CA and Ecuele Manga the star at 141. £9m has been spent in all, but what a summer.

Now, nothing less than promotion will do.

Sheriffs

After four promotions in a row, the Sheriffs found themselves with a squad containing just two players with 120 CA. In the Championship, there are two 150 CA players, 13 140 CA players, and 118 with 130 CA. There is even an idiot presence. Their squad needed a massive overhaul.

It started with the usual clearout, with many of the former favourites released, including Nathan Ellington. But among the names was a surprising one – Nathan Tyson had scored 41 goals last season, but was considered not good enough for the level above, and left. At 31, that judgement might be harsh.

It left the Sheriffs with some major work to do, and they started by bringing in Gary Madine from Colchester for £250k. At 23, Madine was the new face of their strike force, his CA of 123 having ample time to get nearer to the PA of 142. Good start.

Next came another striker, the same age as Tyson at 31, but this one considered more likely to succeeed. Darius Henderson had struggled with Sheff Utd in this very league, but he was still signed for £70k, in the hope that he would find the net more regularly for the Sheriffs. With a CA of 114 and falling, it didn't seem likely. It seemed a strange choice combined with Tyson's release.

Confirmation that Henderson wouldn't play much came in the next signing, Tristan Plummer, who arrived on a free. The 23 year old striker has a CA of 135 and a PA of 140, making him the club's best player by a distance. Now Tyson's release begins to make more sense.

Next up was Marcel Seip, a £120k capture from Hull. The Dutch centre back is 31, but with a CA of 128 he is a very decent defender, certainly better than anyone already at the club. Another good signing.

Having picked up a few players for the season ahead, the manager then looked to the future, bringing into 19 year old central midfielder Mark Rogers from Burnley for £130k, a price that shows how little the Burnley manager recognises talent. His CA may be unspectacular at 118, although still high enough to get plenty of games, but his potential of 173 is superb. If he can be retained, he could be a star of the future.

Idiot Manager had one more signing to make, and it was to be his trump card. A £3.1m signing from Birmingham (comfortably a new club record), 25 year old Nathan Dyer could play on either flank. A CA of 136 had room to grow towards his PA of 155, but he is already the club's top player.

There were also youth prospects to speak of. Mark Hutchinson, a 16 year old keeper with a CA of 75 and a PA of 158, and Dave Underwood, a 17 year old centre back with a CA of 78 and a PA of 148. Nice.

And that was it. The signings were excellent, the only worry was whether there were enough of them. With 118 players in the league with 130 CA, the Sheriffs had only two of them, and other clubs had players even better than that. But they've been in this situation before, and come through. Could they possibly manage five promotions in a row?

Link to post
Share on other sites
kipfizh

kipfizh

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Oh, you beauty. I've just seen the announcement thread for FM10, and although I might not get it (waiting for FM11), it does include a feature I've been wanting for this experiment for ages.

Competition editing and Competition addition

The next incarnation of the experiment will see the Bandits in a MUCH lower league. And I might be quite evil in my promotion criteria. Do you folks think the lower leagues should be realistic to English football (i.e. put the Bandits in a real local league)? Or would you be happy for me to make a fake setup?

E.g. A division that has no automatic promotion, only playoffs. The Bandits have NEVER won a playoff competition, in either incarnation of the experiment (and about ten attempts). Fancy forcing them to?

And how about an annual cup, entered only by the Bandits and the Sheriffs? A one-off shield of sorts to be played the week before the Community Shield?

Link to post
Share on other sites
HD

HD

Posted
Posted
Oh, you beauty. I've just seen the announcement thread for FM10, and although I might not get it (waiting for FM11), it does include a feature I've been wanting for this experiment for ages.

Competition editing and Competition addition

The next incarnation of the experiment will see the Bandits in a MUCH lower league. And I might be quite evil in my promotion criteria. Do you folks think the lower leagues should be realistic to English football (i.e. put the Bandits in a real local league)? Or would you be happy for me to make a fake setup?

E.g. A division that has no automatic promotion, only playoffs. The Bandits have NEVER won a playoff competition, in either incarnation of the experiment (and about ten attempts). Fancy forcing them to?

And how about an annual cup, entered only by the Bandits and the Sheriffs? A one-off shield of sorts to be played the week before the Community Shield?

Agreed that this is something which ought to rejuvinate the franchise. I only wish FM2010 had been released in 1999 when I had time to play it. :(

Link to post
Share on other sites
deltablue

deltablue

Posted
Posted

Oh yes, had a feeling it was close to update time, though it'll probably be a while before the actual one its good to have something. About time some proper bandits transfers were made, though there are still a couple that don't make sense there are far more that do. Even if a couple flop there are still the other big signings, and surely not all of them will. Sensible stuff from the sheriffs, even with their record, promotion to the premiership at the first time of asking is a tough ask and looks like they're consolidating their position first before going for it. Aslo interesting what the new additions will make to the next version of the experiments, a preseason match between the two is a must. Oh and I'd prefer it to stick to a real-life setup, so an attempt at a local league would be interesting although at such an obscure level it doesn't really matter as long as its sensible.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...